Kenny Bell gettin' some sunshine.....

[MyBloodIsRed16]

Most of this conversation is idiotic as hell. Numerous people have lasting brain damage and kill themselves after playing football so you can cream your pants at big hits.

yup, if this hit was fine, you wouldn't have seen Long get into it with a couple Wisky players, you wouldn't have seen Turner go "come on man" to Borland, you wouldn't have seen Pelini flip sh##, and you wouldn't have seen Borland come up to Martinez afterwards and say "My bad".

Dentists kill themselves all the time too and air traffic controlers. There is always an option to take different career paths. If you don't want brain damage from playing football don't play the game.

If you had thought about the post more than once I like to think you wouldn't have posted it, because it's a terrible argument.
List the things in a dentist's line of work that are highly likely to have directly caused people to commit suicide who otherwise wouldn't have.

Same goes for air traffic controllers.

After you've done that think about the fact that we're only recently discovering the damage to players' brains this sport is causing. Until we warn every single person who plays football and make them sign a contracting showing that they know they might get brain damage which greatly increases the probability of depression and suicie, safety measures need to be taken.

After you've thought about that, think about the fact that when these football players are actually mature enough to realize they might not want that to happen to them, the damage might already be done and irreversible. These are people age 13+. If you just count college it's 17 year olds. You expect them to be rational about something that's going to affect them 10-30 years down the road? They need to be protected.

Do these kids nowadays not have a TV or the internet? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that running your head into things isn't good for it. Maybe they should change the rules of boxing or MMA to no hits in the face. I knew there was a risk of getting paralyzed playing football but I took that risk. If you think those guys are committing suicide because CTS that's a load of bull. They suffer from depression because of their dramatic life change. They no longer have someone to tell them what to do, no locker room full of teammates, no stadium full of people cheering for them. They don't know how to deal with it so they take the easy way out. Why haven't as many boxers over time committed suicide?

So let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

You think teenagers should understand the dangers, but you yourself don't believe in those dangers when faced with the evidence.

Luckily you're damn far away from making any type of decision on this subject.

I didn't say I don't believe the dangers I just don't think there is a direct correlation between brain damage sustained playing football and ex players committing suicide. And yes I believe teenagers should understand the dangers. They are teenagers not pre schoolers. My point was that there are plenty of jobs out there that have risks. You either decide that's for you or it isn't. I started playing football in 7th grade and played for 10 yrs total. I guess I was lucky I never got a concussion but I would like to think it's because I wore a proper fitting helmet and used a double sided mouthpiece. Pros seem to suffer the most concussions and most of them don't use mouthpieces and they are able to take their helmets off easily with one hand, meaning they aren't the right size. Are they not educated or do they just not care? I'm gonna go with the latter

 

[Huskerchussetts]

You are arguing over correlations that are just now beginning to be understood. There are a lot of factors that go into any persons suicide. Cte,depression even steroid use causing temperament imbalances could lead to it in football players. The amount of former players that have committed suicide is small in comparison to the players that have not. I played 8 years and have suffered concussions on and off the field. I would still suite up and play if I could knowing the risks. I was taught early on about getting your bell rung and getting concussed/injured and maybe my coaches were just better at informing us. They used to tell us "football is a violent collision sport. If you want a contact sport go play basketball." My point is most young men are warned about the risks they take suiting up and if they aren't the coaches aren't doing their jobs.... That being said Borlands hit wasn't illegal,you know why? Because they didn't throw a flag. I was at the game and was flipping out on the bell penalty but not really so over Borland hit. If thats a highlight of suh doing that to colt McCoy in big12 championship no one bats an eyelash on here and we would be cheering for it.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I think we need to be careful about conflating our personal experience and anecdotes into "evidence."

Things are happening pretty quickly in the world of sports science, but the evidence on dementia, depression and suicide is piling up.

 

[Huskerchussetts]

I think we need to be careful about conflating our personal experience and anecdotes into "evidence."

Things are happening pretty quickly in the world of sports science, but the evidence on dementia, depression and suicide is piling up.

Yes things are moving quickly but with each advancement in understanding 10 more questions come in to play. Cte isn't just about concussions its about collisions that are violent enough for the brain to move. During an inside drill or a pulling drill the same scout team linebacker may go head up with guards and centers several times in a session. While he might not be concussed on any of them he may have a point of contact that causes a brain movement which can lead to CTE. This player can be more at risk than a star player due to the volume of contact. So big hits, while detrimental, are not the only problem within football. Big hits which spurred this convo to this point. While big hit concussions and repeated blows to the head can lead to symptoms of depression and other disorders there are still questions of drug dependency to consider along with pre existing mental conditions. Blanket stating head trauma and concussions will lead to you having a less than healthy life after the fact is not the message tthat should be pushed. How many of the NFL players that have taken their lives been regularly taking ped or pain medications throughout their careers and then have them taken away in their private lives? How many of those individuals we seeking therapeutic help? It's a much broader spectrum of just saying head injuries are causing athletes to hurt themselves and others later in life. Does it happen? Yes. Is it one of the major factors? Probably. Should it be used to convey one's point in an argument on a play that happened years ago and both players have probably forgotten? Nope

 

[Cdog923]

Most of this conversation is idiotic as hell. Numerous people have lasting brain damage and kill themselves after playing football so you can cream your pants at big hits.

yup, if this hit was fine, you wouldn't have seen Long get into it with a couple Wisky players, you wouldn't have seen Turner go "come on man" to Borland, you wouldn't have seen Pelini flip sh##, and you wouldn't have seen Borland come up to Martinez afterwards and say "My bad".

Dentists kill themselves all the time too and air traffic controlers. There is always an option to take different career paths. If you don't want brain damage from playing football don't play the game.

Holy sh!t, dude.

 

[Cdog923]

Most of this conversation is idiotic as hell. Numerous people have lasting brain damage and kill themselves after playing football so you can cream your pants at big hits.

yup, if this hit was fine, you wouldn't have seen Long get into it with a couple Wisky players, you wouldn't have seen Turner go "come on man" to Borland, you wouldn't have seen Pelini flip sh##, and you wouldn't have seen Borland come up to Martinez afterwards and say "My bad".

Dentists kill themselves all the time too and air traffic controlers. There is always an option to take different career paths. If you don't want brain damage from playing football don't play the game.

If you had thought about the post more than once I like to think you wouldn't have posted it, because it's a terrible argument.
List the things in a dentist's line of work that are highly likely to have directly caused people to commit suicide who otherwise wouldn't have.

Same goes for air traffic controllers.

After you've done that think about the fact that we're only recently discovering the damage to players' brains this sport is causing. Until we warn every single person who plays football and make them sign a contracting showing that they know they might get brain damage which greatly increases the probability of depression and suicie, safety measures need to be taken.

After you've thought about that, think about the fact that when these football players are actually mature enough to realize they might not want that to happen to them, the damage might already be done and irreversible. These are people age 13+. If you just count college it's 17 year olds. You expect them to be rational about something that's going to affect them 10-30 years down the road? They need to be protected.

Do these kids nowadays not have a TV or the internet? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that running your head into things isn't good for it. Maybe they should change the rules of boxing or MMA to no hits in the face. I knew there was a risk of getting paralyzed playing football but I took that risk. If you think those guys are committing suicide because CTS that's a load of bull. They suffer from depression because of their dramatic life change. They no longer have someone to tell them what to do, no locker room full of teammates, no stadium full of people cheering for them. They don't know how to deal with it so they take the easy way out. Why haven't as many boxers over time committed suicide?

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Most of this conversation is idiotic as hell. Numerous people have lasting brain damage and kill themselves after playing football so you can cream your pants at big hits.

yup, if this hit was fine, you wouldn't have seen Long get into it with a couple Wisky players, you wouldn't have seen Turner go "come on man" to Borland, you wouldn't have seen Pelini flip sh##, and you wouldn't have seen Borland come up to Martinez afterwards and say "My bad".

Dentists kill themselves all the time too and air traffic controlers. There is always an option to take different career paths. If you don't want brain damage from playing football don't play the game.

If you had thought about the post more than once I like to think you wouldn't have posted it, because it's a terrible argument.
List the things in a dentist's line of work that are highly likely to have directly caused people to commit suicide who otherwise wouldn't have.

Same goes for air traffic controllers.

After you've done that think about the fact that we're only recently discovering the damage to players' brains this sport is causing. Until we warn every single person who plays football and make them sign a contracting showing that they know they might get brain damage which greatly increases the probability of depression and suicie, safety measures need to be taken.

After you've thought about that, think about the fact that when these football players are actually mature enough to realize they might not want that to happen to them, the damage might already be done and irreversible. These are people age 13+. If you just count college it's 17 year olds. You expect them to be rational about something that's going to affect them 10-30 years down the road? They need to be protected.

Do these kids nowadays not have a TV or the internet? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that running your head into things isn't good for it. Maybe they should change the rules of boxing or MMA to no hits in the face. I knew there was a risk of getting paralyzed playing football but I took that risk. If you think those guys are committing suicide because CTS that's a load of bull. They suffer from depression because of their dramatic life change. They no longer have someone to tell them what to do, no locker room full of teammates, no stadium full of people cheering for them. They don't know how to deal with it so they take the easy way out. Why haven't as many boxers over time committed suicide?

I guess the point is that kids nowadays actually DO have a TV and the Internet --- where they can get the information that you seem keen on avoiding.

A :07 Google search would show you all the other sports and professions where CTE is an issue — an issue that wasn't know or talked about in previous generations.

You should be able to figure out the part where there are far more football players than boxers by yourself.

 

[MyBloodIsRed16]

Most of this conversation is idiotic as hell. Numerous people have lasting brain damage and kill themselves after playing football so you can cream your pants at big hits.

yup, if this hit was fine, you wouldn't have seen Long get into it with a couple Wisky players, you wouldn't have seen Turner go "come on man" to Borland, you wouldn't have seen Pelini flip sh##, and you wouldn't have seen Borland come up to Martinez afterwards and say "My bad".

Dentists kill themselves all the time too and air traffic controlers. There is always an option to take different career paths. If you don't want brain damage from playing football don't play the game.

If you had thought about the post more than once I like to think you wouldn't have posted it, because it's a terrible argument.
List the things in a dentist's line of work that are highly likely to have directly caused people to commit suicide who otherwise wouldn't have.

Same goes for air traffic controllers.

After you've done that think about the fact that we're only recently discovering the damage to players' brains this sport is causing. Until we warn every single person who plays football and make them sign a contracting showing that they know they might get brain damage which greatly increases the probability of depression and suicie, safety measures need to be taken.

After you've thought about that, think about the fact that when these football players are actually mature enough to realize they might not want that to happen to them, the damage might already be done and irreversible. These are people age 13+. If you just count college it's 17 year olds. You expect them to be rational about something that's going to affect them 10-30 years down the road? They need to be protected.

Do these kids nowadays not have a TV or the internet? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that running your head into things isn't good for it. Maybe they should change the rules of boxing or MMA to no hits in the face. I knew there was a risk of getting paralyzed playing football but I took that risk. If you think those guys are committing suicide because CTS that's a load of bull. They suffer from depression because of their dramatic life change. They no longer have someone to tell them what to do, no locker room full of teammates, no stadium full of people cheering for them. They don't know how to deal with it so they take the easy way out. Why haven't as many boxers over time committed suicide?

I guess the point is that kids nowadays actually DO have a TV and the Internet --- where they can get the information that you seem keen on avoiding.

A :07 Google search would show you all the other sports and professions where CTE is an issue an issue that wasn't know or talked about in previous generations.

You should be able to figure out the part where there are far more football players than boxers by yourself.

I just want to be clear that I wasn't avoiding anything. My point was against whoever made the comment that "we want to see big hits so we can cream our pants". Football is a dangerous sport and not meant for eveyone. They threw in the part about players killing themselves because they have brain damage. One would think, especially someone who has played the game that there are dangers to playing. If you have met any old timers that can barely get around or have mangled hands from broken fingers or even heard stories like from Jerome Bettis who can barely walk, you would know there are long term affects. As far as boxers go they make a living by getting hit in the head over and over. Some become "punchy" and we know that it's brain damage and have for a long time. So anyone with any kind of intelligence could make a correlation between getting you bell rung repeatedly and the possibility of brain damage. I played my last game in 2004 and this stuff was covered with players back then expecially if you had a concussion.. so this isn't super new territory. Just because all these guys in the NFL are saying they had no idea doesn't mean they had absolutely no idea. There are plenty of guys who admit that they had concussions and didn't tell anyone so they could keep playing and not have to sit out the next week. They want to keep their job. Should I feel sorry because they chose to continue a job that has risks and that they are getting paid handsomely for it? They chose to be there just like a fireman choses to run into a burning building even tho they are putting their lives in danger. Also I would like to point out that the two most famous players in recent memory to commit suicide are Dave Duerson and Junior Seau. Both had long careers and both were devorced and had failing businesses.. could those be any reasons to commit suicide and not just blame it on brain damage caused by football?? Oh hey that guy from the Patriots killed himself too must have been because of football not the fact that he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life in jail... sorry not trying to troll anyone I just fell in love with this sport a long time ago because it was dangerous and violent and not everyone could do it. I just hate when people oN the outside act like eveyone who plays is a victim. If you don't want your kids to play don't let them or make sure they are educated on the dangers like mine did and if you don't know the dangers make sure their coaches do and they are teaching them.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Most of this conversation is idiotic as hell. Numerous people have lasting brain damage and kill themselves after playing football so you can cream your pants at big hits.

yup, if this hit was fine, you wouldn't have seen Long get into it with a couple Wisky players, you wouldn't have seen Turner go "come on man" to Borland, you wouldn't have seen Pelini flip sh##, and you wouldn't have seen Borland come up to Martinez afterwards and say "My bad".

Dentists kill themselves all the time too and air traffic controlers. There is always an option to take different career paths. If you don't want brain damage from playing football don't play the game.

If you had thought about the post more than once I like to think you wouldn't have posted it, because it's a terrible argument.
List the things in a dentist's line of work that are highly likely to have directly caused people to commit suicide who otherwise wouldn't have.

Same goes for air traffic controllers.

After you've done that think about the fact that we're only recently discovering the damage to players' brains this sport is causing. Until we warn every single person who plays football and make them sign a contracting showing that they know they might get brain damage which greatly increases the probability of depression and suicie, safety measures need to be taken.

After you've thought about that, think about the fact that when these football players are actually mature enough to realize they might not want that to happen to them, the damage might already be done and irreversible. These are people age 13+. If you just count college it's 17 year olds. You expect them to be rational about something that's going to affect them 10-30 years down the road? They need to be protected.

Do these kids nowadays not have a TV or the internet? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that running your head into things isn't good for it. Maybe they should change the rules of boxing or MMA to no hits in the face. I knew there was a risk of getting paralyzed playing football but I took that risk. If you think those guys are committing suicide because CTS that's a load of bull. They suffer from depression because of their dramatic life change. They no longer have someone to tell them what to do, no locker room full of teammates, no stadium full of people cheering for them. They don't know how to deal with it so they take the easy way out. Why haven't as many boxers over time committed suicide?

I guess the point is that kids nowadays actually DO have a TV and the Internet --- where they can get the information that you seem keen on avoiding.

A :07 Google search would show you all the other sports and professions where CTE is an issue an issue that wasn't know or talked about in previous generations.

You should be able to figure out the part where there are far more football players than boxers by yourself.

I just want to be clear that I wasn't avoiding anything. My point was against whoever made the comment that "we want to see big hits so we can cream our pants". Football is a dangerous sport and not meant for eveyone. They threw in the part about players killing themselves because they have brain damage. One would think, especially someone who has played the game that there are dangers to playing. If you have met any old timers that can barely get around or have mangled hands from broken fingers or even heard stories like from Jerome Bettis who can barely walk, you would know there are long term affects. As far as boxers go they make a living by getting hit in the head over and over. Some become "punchy" and we know that it's brain damage and have for a long time. So anyone with any kind of intelligence could make a correlation between getting you bell rung repeatedly and the possibility of brain damage. I played my last game in 2004 and this stuff was covered with players back then expecially if you had a concussion.. so this isn't super new territory. Just because all these guys in the NFL are saying they had no idea doesn't mean they had absolutely no idea. There are plenty of guys who admit that they had concussions and didn't tell anyone so they could keep playing and not have to sit out the next week. They want to keep their job. Should I feel sorry because they chose to continue a job that has risks and that they are getting paid handsomely for it? They chose to be there just like a fireman choses to run into a burning building even tho they are putting their lives in danger. Also I would like to point out that the two most famous players in recent memory to commit suicide are Dave Duerson and Junior Seau. Both had long careers and both were devorced and had failing businesses.. could those be any reasons to commit suicide and not just blame it on brain damage caused by football?? Oh hey that guy from the Patriots killed himself too must have been because of football not the fact that he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life in jail... sorry not trying to troll anyone I just fell in love with this sport a long time ago because it was dangerous and violent and not everyone could do it. I just hate when people oN the outside act like eveyone who plays is a victim. If you don't want your kids to play don't let them or make sure they are educated on the dangers like mine did and if you don't know the dangers make sure their coaches do and they are teaching them.

I agree with a lot of this post, MBIR. But I do think we've turned a corner when you have guys like Mike Ditka and Brett Favre saying they wouldn't let their own kids play football, knowing what they now know.

My love of the game goes back to the freewheeling days of the NFL and certifiable badasses like d!(k Butkus, Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, Jack Tatum. Jack Youngblood, pretty much the entire Oakland Raiders. They probably thought they knew what they were getting into when they shook off injuries and played hurt, but in hindsight they would come to the sidelines, get pumped full of cortisone and/or sent back in with concussions symptoms, run their bodies ragged for a few years, then retire having probably earned no more than $60,000 a year. The bodies and mentality don't make much sense in a non-football world, and while the fans get to move on to a new generation of players, the retired players get old really quick, often a lot more crippled than their non-athlete peers. We don't pay much attention to that part because we'd rather not, but I honestly don't think those players knew what they were getting into, and it's pretty clear the NFL preferred to keep it that way. There are other dangerous jobs and even more dangerous hobbies people pursue without getting paid, but that doesn't mean this isn't an issue.

Suicide is a tricky thing to pass judgement on, so I try not to blame any one thing.