Lots of room to grow for Martinez

I have no idea if Martinez miss zone reads or what. But the game I watched our WRs miss a number of catch-able balls that would have given us the win or at least changed UT game plan. We did not make the plays when it really counted and UT did.

 
damn so people missed balls . Id be mad to hope talylor starts he has the arm people need to catch the ball thoe

 
The qb doesn't have to be a great cheerleader. I couldn't care less about that. Like supreme athletes like Crouch & Frazier were?

It's a sh*t article shooting cheap shots.

 
Right. QBs just need to be supreme athletes.

The position is 80% game smarts & intangibles, 20% physical tools. At least. I'm not saying senior safeties or receivers shouldn't be leaders, but the QB position is supposed to be different. Not sure why that is hard to accept. Please don't be offended simply because the subject of conversation is Taylor Martinez.

 
Martinez didn't seem to pout or throw a fit. Just Taylor being Taylor. He's the same way when he breaks an 80 yard TD run. Ice in his viens.

I think it's a fantastic characteristic for a freshman QB to have.

And yes he has A LOT of room to grow. The sky's the limit.

 
Jeez, the kid is a redshirt freshman. Give him a break for crying out loud! If anyone thought for a second he wasn't going to have some bumps in the road you need to schedule a catscan because you have an enclosed head injury. As he learns he'll handle things better and better and become a better player because of it. Now an argument could've been made that he's only going to learn by being in the middle of the mess, but at some point you have to stop the situation because learning isn't going to happen, only chaos is. He's not to blame for what happened..........the entire team and coaching staff is to blame for what happened.

 
zoogies said:
Right. QBs just need to be supreme athletes.

The position is 80% game smarts & intangibles, 20% physical tools. At least. I'm not saying senior safeties or receivers shouldn't be leaders, but the QB position is supposed to be different. Not sure why that is hard to accept. Please don't be offended simply because the subject of conversation is Taylor Martinez.
Click to expand...
Nobody here is saying that the QB shouldn't be a leader. But this article calls out a redshirt freshman QB for his lack of leadership because he isn't a big enough cheerleader, and because instead of talking to the press, he hung out with his family. Screw anyone who writes that article.

People want to rip Martinez for his lack of leadership? Than you better be ready to call out Niles Paul, a senior (who two weeks ago in the same newspaper talked about he needed to get the ball more and be a bigger part of the offense), for dropping about 5 passes, 3 of which could have led to touchdowns. You better be ready to call out Brandon Kinnie, a junior who dropped a touchdown pass. You better be ready to call out Rickey Thenarse, a 5th year senior who thinks he can just throw himself at players rather than wrap up. You better call out Zac Lee, a senior, who fumbled a snap and nearly turned the ball over. You better call out Roy Helu, a senior who fumbled the ball on the 2nd drive of the game.

Martinez was the least of our problems on Saturday, and he holds no more responsibility for the loss than any one of his teammates or coaches. I don't care what position he plays.

 
Hercules said:
zoogies said:
Right. QBs just need to be supreme athletes.

The position is 80% game smarts & intangibles, 20% physical tools. At least. I'm not saying senior safeties or receivers shouldn't be leaders, but the QB position is supposed to be different. Not sure why that is hard to accept. Please don't be offended simply because the subject of conversation is Taylor Martinez.
Click to expand...
Nobody here is saying that the QB shouldn't be a leader. But this article calls out a redshirt freshman QB for his lack of leadership because he isn't a big enough cheerleader, and because instead of talking to the press, he hung out with his family. Screw anyone who writes that article.

People want to rip Martinez for his lack of leadership? Than you better be ready to call out Niles Paul, a senior (who two weeks ago in the same newspaper talked about he needed to get the ball more and be a bigger part of the offense), for dropping about 5 passes, 3 of which could have led to touchdowns. You better be ready to call out Brandon Kinnie, a junior who dropped a touchdown pass. You better be ready to call out Rickey Thenarse, a 5th year senior who thinks he can just throw himself at players rather than wrap up. You better call out Zac Lee, a senior, who fumbled a snap and nearly turned the ball over. You better call out Roy Helu, a senior who fumbled the ball on the 2nd drive of the game.

Martinez was the least of our problems on Saturday, and he holds no more responsibility for the loss than any one of his teammates or coaches. I don't care what position he plays.
Click to expand...
Yeah, since nobody has said a thing about any of those other guys at all...

In my opinion, you just don't get to play the "redshirt freshman" excuse all season. The quarterback, at any and every level of play, is expected to be a leader on AND off the field - he's the starting quarterback for a highly ranked FBS football team - like it or not the expectations placed upon him are going to be higher than those placed on redshirt freshmen at other positions. If he's the best we've got at quarterback, not just the one with the best "upside," but truly the best overall quarterback we've got, then any criticism lobbed his way with regard to his performance at the position, on or off the field, is in bounds and well earned. While he shouldn't be castigated for every mistake (no one is perfect), he shouldn't get a free pass either - you don't get to have all the benefits of the position with none of the downsides.

 
th3r0m said:
Hercules said:
zoogies said:
Right. QBs just need to be supreme athletes.

The position is 80% game smarts & intangibles, 20% physical tools. At least. I'm not saying senior safeties or receivers shouldn't be leaders, but the QB position is supposed to be different. Not sure why that is hard to accept. Please don't be offended simply because the subject of conversation is Taylor Martinez.
Click to expand...
Nobody here is saying that the QB shouldn't be a leader. But this article calls out a redshirt freshman QB for his lack of leadership because he isn't a big enough cheerleader, and because instead of talking to the press, he hung out with his family. Screw anyone who writes that article.

People want to rip Martinez for his lack of leadership? Than you better be ready to call out Niles Paul, a senior (who two weeks ago in the same newspaper talked about he needed to get the ball more and be a bigger part of the offense), for dropping about 5 passes, 3 of which could have led to touchdowns. You better be ready to call out Brandon Kinnie, a junior who dropped a touchdown pass. You better be ready to call out Rickey Thenarse, a 5th year senior who thinks he can just throw himself at players rather than wrap up. You better call out Zac Lee, a senior, who fumbled a snap and nearly turned the ball over. You better call out Roy Helu, a senior who fumbled the ball on the 2nd drive of the game.

Martinez was the least of our problems on Saturday, and he holds no more responsibility for the loss than any one of his teammates or coaches. I don't care what position he plays.
Click to expand...
Yeah, since nobody has said a thing about any of those other guys at all...

In my opinion, you just don't get to play the "redshirt freshman" excuse all season. The quarterback, at any and every level of play, is expected to be a leader on AND off the field - he's the starting quarterback for a highly ranked FBS football team - like it or not the expectations placed upon him are going to be higher than those placed on redshirt freshmen at other positions. If he's the best we've got at quarterback, not just the one with the best "upside," but truly the best overall quarterback we've got, then any criticism lobbed his way with regard to his performance at the position, on or off the field, is in bounds and well earned. While he shouldn't be castigated for every mistake (no one is perfect), he shouldn't get a free pass either - you don't get to have all the benefits of the position with none of the downsides.
Click to expand...
I don't think he should get a free pass, and I think he should be criticized if he deserves it. However, the criticism he's receiving on this board and in the article are way out of whack relative to the criticism of his veteran teammates. (for example: look around this board and see how many threads there are about Martinez, and then see how many there are about the players who dropped his passes).

 
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The article wasn't cheap in the least... simply stating observations. I think it's pretty disconcerting to read, not because I am especially concerned about Martinez being a leader or cheerleader, but because he's the guy that's supposed to be the future of our program, and he doesn't seem to care one bit about the team if he's not playing. No one is expecting him not to be disappointed about his benching, but to show almost no interest in whether the team wins in such a huge game is a different matter.

 
Hercules said:
zoogies said:
Right. QBs just need to be supreme athletes.

The position is 80% game smarts & intangibles, 20% physical tools. At least. I'm not saying senior safeties or receivers shouldn't be leaders, but the QB position is supposed to be different. Not sure why that is hard to accept. Please don't be offended simply because the subject of conversation is Taylor Martinez.
Click to expand...
Nobody here is saying that the QB shouldn't be a leader. But this article calls out a redshirt freshman QB for his lack of leadership because he isn't a big enough cheerleader, and because instead of talking to the press, he hung out with his family. Screw anyone who writes that article.

People want to rip Martinez for his lack of leadership? Than you better be ready to call out Niles Paul, a senior (who two weeks ago in the same newspaper talked about he needed to get the ball more and be a bigger part of the offense), for dropping about 5 passes, 3 of which could have led to touchdowns. You better be ready to call out Brandon Kinnie, a junior who dropped a touchdown pass. You better be ready to call out Rickey Thenarse, a 5th year senior who thinks he can just throw himself at players rather than wrap up. You better call out Zac Lee, a senior, who fumbled a snap and nearly turned the ball over. You better call out Roy Helu, a senior who fumbled the ball on the 2nd drive of the game.

Martinez was the least of our problems on Saturday, and he holds no more responsibility for the loss than any one of his teammates or coaches. I don't care what position he plays.
Click to expand...
You're comparing two different things. Dropping a pass or fumbling the ball are physical or mental errors. This article is about a person's attitude... an entirely different thing.

 
I guess the article is not really meant as a criticism, more as - as the the thread subtitle suggests - it's something that should concern us. Absolutely it's something that should concern us, going forward.

 
JTrain said:
Hercules said:
zoogies said:
Right. QBs just need to be supreme athletes.

The position is 80% game smarts & intangibles, 20% physical tools. At least. I'm not saying senior safeties or receivers shouldn't be leaders, but the QB position is supposed to be different. Not sure why that is hard to accept. Please don't be offended simply because the subject of conversation is Taylor Martinez.
Click to expand...
Nobody here is saying that the QB shouldn't be a leader. But this article calls out a redshirt freshman QB for his lack of leadership because he isn't a big enough cheerleader, and because instead of talking to the press, he hung out with his family. Screw anyone who writes that article.

People want to rip Martinez for his lack of leadership? Than you better be ready to call out Niles Paul, a senior (who two weeks ago in the same newspaper talked about he needed to get the ball more and be a bigger part of the offense), for dropping about 5 passes, 3 of which could have led to touchdowns. You better be ready to call out Brandon Kinnie, a junior who dropped a touchdown pass. You better be ready to call out Rickey Thenarse, a 5th year senior who thinks he can just throw himself at players rather than wrap up. You better call out Zac Lee, a senior, who fumbled a snap and nearly turned the ball over. You better call out Roy Helu, a senior who fumbled the ball on the 2nd drive of the game.

Martinez was the least of our problems on Saturday, and he holds no more responsibility for the loss than any one of his teammates or coaches. I don't care what position he plays.
Click to expand...
You're comparing two different things. Dropping a pass or fumbling the ball are physical or mental errors. This article is about a person's attitude... an entirely different thing.
Click to expand...
There are different kinds of leaders too. Some are vocal, some are cheerleaders, and some are quiet people who lead by example. Nobody questioned Suh's leadership, even though he was never a vocal guy - he always led by example. No one knows Taylor Martinez very well, but he certainly seems to be one of those players who prefers to just lead by example. This article tries to comment on a person's "attitude" without knowing that player or even interviewing that player, which is crappy journalism. If Chatelain had broken down Martinez's mistakes in the zone read, that's an article worth reading. But instead, he broke down a 20 year old's body language as if the kid was a politician in a debate. He implied that the kid doesn't care enough about his team because Martinez didn't get too excited after a first down (never mind that Martinez doesn't get too excited after rushing for 4 tds and 241 yards).

Dropping a pass or fumbling the ball are physical and mental errors which have everything to do with leadership. Every leader, whether you're vocal or not, still has to lead by example. If you talk a big talk in the press and in practice and then go dropping the ball on Saturdays, what kind of leader is that? There's a reason Bo tells his guys to "put it on film." That's all that really counts.

 
The team lost this game and TM had a part in it. His part did not solely cause the loss, but he put the ball on the turf as well. He made some bad reads, but over all he put the ball in catchable positions for the receivers who failed to catch the damn ball. TM did not allow Gilbert to get Yards after contact and make first downs. TM did not get any penalties that brought back a first down.

TM does however as the starting QB and leader of the offense have a responsibility to engage his receivers and get in their a$$ when they continually drop balls, he also has to try and bring them up and say we can do this. Moping on the sideline is not the leadership qualities he should be showing when the game is still on the line.

I agree the writer of this article had many more targets he could have gone after but to say TM gets a free pass just because he is a freshman QB is also wrong. You have to take the good with the bad.

Time to look towards OKIE ST, our goals are all still in front of us. We need everyone on the team to step up and be a part of the solution......... :bonesflag: :throwdabones1: :bonesflag:

 
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