Michael Jordan: GOAT

Mavric said:
Saw this posted today:

Career Stats:

Steph Curry: 24.5 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 3.1 TOPG

Russell Westbrook: 22.5 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 8.4 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 4.1 TOPG

So Curry gets one more basket per game.  Westbrook as a significant edge in rebounding and assists.  Curry with the edge in turnovers.  Others basically even.

Harden: 24.8 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 7.0 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 3.7 TOPG

So you'd probably have to go Westbrook > Harden > Curry on all-around games.  I thought Curry might have more of an edge in not turning the ball over but not really that much.
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You don't have to go that way at all. That's why viturally no one ranks Westbrook and Harden ahead of Curry in Greatness. It's why Steph Curry has 4 rings to their combined zero, and why teams keep moving Westbrook and Harden around, looking for chemistry that fits their game and increasingly awkward salary demands. 

On the other side of it, Kahwai Leonard has two championships for two different teams, great offensive numbers and a great defensive reputation. But he's disappeared for so many long stretches that have brought his motivation into question that you wonder how he shakes out in the greatness debate. Anthony Davis for the same reason. 

 
Huskerfollower4life said:
From a fortune cookie today that I got, The quality, not the longevity, of one's life is what is important.  That sums up why Jordan is better then James in my book.  
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Well Michael Jordan played 15 seasons, and averaged 20 points in his last one with the Wizards at age 39, so it's not like he lacked for longevity, either. 

And sometimes fortune cookies are wrong

https://www.google.com/search?q=Sometimes+fortune+cookies+are+wrong+homer&oq=Sometimes+fortune+cookies+are+wrong+homer&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l2.9094j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:452e5078,vid:BWrJpC8aBCI

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Well Michael Jordan played 15 seasons, and averaged 20 points in his last one with the Wizards at age 39, so it's not like he lacked for longevity, either. 

And sometimes fortune cookies are wrong

https://www.google.com/search?q=Sometimes+fortune+cookies+are+wrong+homer&oq=Sometimes+fortune+cookies+are+wrong+homer&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l2.9094j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:452e5078,vid:BWrJpC8aBCI
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If Jordan wouldn't have taking 5 seasons off he would have easily broken the scoring record.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Some of the all-time greats are playing in the NBA right now.  

LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Durant for sure. I have a problem with Chris Paul, but most folks say he's already there. 

We're in the early days of Luka, Ja Morant, LaMelo Ball, this Panchero rookie, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander  They could be legends. Jokic just needs a couple more seasons. Maybe Embid. Devin Booker. 

A healthy and motivated Kawhi Leonard could have been an all-timer. His door is closing. Zion Williamson looked like a generational talent, but every time you look up, he's not playing. He's got time, but you gotta wonder if that body is gonna betray him. 

Every game I also see young — like really young — players I don't recognize with cold-blooded moves and instincts taking it to veteran teams. OKC was not the least bit intimidated by LeBron, Anthony Davis, and the Forum crowd. 

Anyone else you think might be an all-timer we're watching in the early stages? 
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Luka, Ja (if his crew doesn't get him in trouble), SGA is special and overlooked.   And the bit I've watched of Wembanyama, he's going to be special.

 
Red Five said:
Every time my parents visit they bring a tub of my old crap that is still at their house.  Over thanksgiving they brought up a bunch of my old sports cards, including a binder full of Jordan cards.  My son convinced me to get some PSA graded, so I sent 4 of them in a few weeks ago (talked to a local card shop and they told me which ones to send in).  I am hoping to get them graded at a 9 (out of 10) as the guy at the card shop said "these are in really good condition", but I am guessing they probably are a 7 or 8.

1987 Fleer ($15k for a PSA 10) - https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/basketball-cards/1987-fleer/michael-jordan/summary/299721

1988 Fleer ($3k for a PSA 10) - https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/basketball-cards/1988-fleer/michael-jordan/summary/299820

1988 Fleer All Star ($3k for a PSA 10) - https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/basketball-cards/1988-fleer/michael-jordan/summary/299926

1988 Fleer sticker ($30k for a PSA 10) - https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/basketball-cards/1988-fleer-sticker/michael-jordan/summary/300625
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Cards came back last week.  I was right, they were 7s and 8s, so each are in the $100-$300 range.

I guess I'll hold onto then until the next pandemic/Bulls documentary to send the prices sky high.

 
Red Five said:
Cards came back last week.  I was right, they were 7s and 8s, so each are in the $100-$300 range.

I guess I'll hold onto then until the next pandemic/Bulls documentary to send the prices sky high.
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Nice.  I've got a BCCG 9 86 Jordan RC.  I think I bought it like 15 years ago for a few hundred bucks.  Seeing them on ebay for 10-15k right now.

 
Jason Sitoke said:
Nice.  I've got a BCCG 9 86 Jordan RC.  I think I bought it like 15 years ago for a few hundred bucks.  Seeing them on ebay for 10-15k right now.
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Ohhh, a 9 Jordan rookie!  That was a good buy.

I remember going to card shows in the late 80s/early 90s and seeing the Jordan 86 Fleer (and even the Jordan 84 Star) for around $100 and trying to get my dad to buy me one.  Looking back, he should have bought me every single one I saw.

 
Red Five said:
Ohhh, a 9 Jordan rookie!  That was a good buy.

I remember going to card shows in the late 80s/early 90s and seeing the Jordan 86 Fleer (and even the Jordan 84 Star) for around $100 and trying to get my dad to buy me one.  Looking back, he should have bought me every single one I saw.
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Child abuse.

 
A decade later and I still had to look back at this.  MJ's NBA salary

1984-85    Chicago Bulls    $550,000  ROY
1985-86    Chicago Bulls    $630,000
1986-87    Chicago Bulls    $737,500  PPG -1st
1987-88    Chicago Bulls    $845,000  PPG -1st ; MVP
1988-89    Chicago Bulls    $2,000,000  PPG -1st
1989-90    Chicago Bulls    $2,500,000  PPG -1st
1990-91    Chicago Bulls    $2,500,000  PPG -1st ; MVP
1991-92    Chicago Bulls    $3,250,000  PPG -1st ; MVP
1992-93    Chicago Bulls    $4,000,000  PPG -1st
1993-94    Chicago Bulls    $4,000,000 - DNP
1994-95    Chicago Bulls    $3,850,000 -  17 games 
1995-96    Chicago Bulls    $3,850,000  PPG -1st ; MVP
1996-97    Chicago Bulls    $30,140,000  PPG -1st
1997-98    Chicago Bulls    $33,140,000  PPG -1st ; MVP

1998-99    - Retired - DNP

1999-00    - Retired - DNP

2000-01    - Retired - DNP
2001-02    Washington Wizards    $1,000,000
2002-03    Washington Wizards    $1,030,000

NBA Career :  $94,022,500 MIL

MJ's Net Worth in 2023:  $2.2 BIL

Stephen Curry's NBA salary after his 5th season:

2014-15 $10.6 MIL
2015-16 $11.3 MIL
2016-17 $12.1 MIL
2017-18 $34.6 MIL
2018-19 $37.4 MIL
2019-20 $40.2 MIL
2020-21 $43.0 MIL
2021-22 $45.7 MIL
2022-23 $48.0 MIL
2023-24 $51.9 MIL
2024-25 $55.7 MIL
2025-26 $59.6 MIL

 
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Just for fun - Larry Bird   :)

1979-80    Boston Celtics    $650,000  - (ROY ; 4th in MVP)
1980-81    Boston Celtics    $650,000 - 2nd in MVP
1981-82    Boston Celtics    $650,000 - 2nd in MVP
1982-83    Boston Celtics    $650,000 - 2nd in MVP
1983-84    Boston Celtics    $650,000 -  MVP
1984-85    Boston Celtics    $1,800,000 - MVP
1985-86    Boston Celtics    $1,800,000 - MVP 
1986-87    Boston Celtics    $1,800,000 - 3rd in MVP
1987-88    Boston Celtics    $1,800,000 - 2nd in MVP
1988-89    Boston Celtics    $1,800,000 - Injured - 6 games played
1989-90    Boston Celtics    $2,750,000 
1990-91    Boston Celtics    $1,500,000
1991-92    Boston Celtics    $7,070,000
1992-93    Boston Celtics    $2,300,000 - DNP Retired
NBA Career:    $25,870,000
 

Net Worth in 2023: $75 MIL

 
It's crazy what these guys are making and how much money they are generating.  You have guys in the league who never played meaningful minutes in the NBA and left the NBA as multi-millionaires (Darko Milicic and Greg Oden and countless dozen more).   Man to be 6'9" and be a 3&D guy.

 
I have been watching a lot of games from the 1980's & 90's.  Full games, as they happened.  Love YouTube and those who upload them.  

The thing I noticed that I always recalled but may have forgotten, is how they played defense.  Like, literally everyone on the floor was a defender.  Man on Man, up in your face, bumping and defending the wing or ball or inside. 

Players during that era had to work a lot harder for shots and picks were needed to give some space.  They also defending the point guard like he was going to rob their house the moment the PG got the ball.  Awesome!

But also, I am glad they did away with the continuation foul (whistle blows against a defender, and the offensive player continues to take a step or two towards the hoop and drops it in for an easy bucket - count it!  And One!). 

Although I have seen refs allow this lately at times.  I don't know why.  Mostly the "super stars" get this treatment.

Another thing - in the 80's and 90's era you could not get away with today's current dribbling street style.  Casually bringing the ball down the court dribbling it over your shoulder to around your head (aka "carrying the ball")  or the hesitation move - which is pausing as you dribble to do a cross over ("double dribble" back then).  Totally entertainment street ball that the NBA embraces.

I also noticed how the game slowed down in the 90s because of the triangle and isolation.  In the 80s they ran hard and put up points, just trading buckets with better defenses too.  

I also miss the tough enforcers throughout the 80's and 90's... and it kind of ended after the Rasheed Wallace era.  Guys who played nasty and yelled and got after players and refs.  You hated them, but loved seeing it in the game.

I do like the current NBA at times, in part for the massive amount of three point shooting and high scoring games.  There was a time during the 2000's (and 90's) when the scores ended in the low 80's and mid 70's... so boring - and not because of defense - but because of isolation and working the clock down.

 
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admo said:
.  

I also miss the tough enforcers throughout the 80's and 90's... and it kind of ended after the Rasheed Wallace era.  Guys who played nasty and yelled and got after players and refs.  You hated them, but loved seeing it in the game.
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I think this role is now filled by Draymond Green, Dillon Brooks, PatBev and I'm sure I'm missing some.  But really in your face defenders, chippy, talk a lot and just get under the fans and opponents skin.

 
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