Michigan Post Game Presser

Stone Cold said:
This is the worst take but im not callying you out devo.  We have all complained about adrian.  Let me ask all of you this,  when has there ever been a perfect qb here.  In the last 20 years of me really paying attention and following online there has never been one qb i have had total utter faith in throwing the ball.  And if we are the type of offence who just cant get that then the ball needs to stay on the ground most of the game.  We b!^@h about adrian, tommy, cody, keller, ganz, taylor, smothers, i mean the list goes on and on and on and on and on.  
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Lot has changed over the past 20 years. Traditionally the expectation was to run and pitch well via ground attack and just hit the occasional open receiver. And we had some good ones that could meet those lesser expectations or come close. Wasn't as much reliance on reading defenses. And perhaps burying the lead, twitter/internet lets everyone see all the venting. 

Now the expectation is that the QBs (in our type of system) can correctly zone read, hit the correct running lanes, and be an actual passer which means you better be able to find open receivers and then actually hit them. With all that stated, I probably think Ganz had rounded out to the be the best of that list. Martinez could still end up being the best of that bunch if he could clean the "bad" mistakes. Who has complained about Smothers? He's barely been on the field. 

 
Lorewarn said:
Our program is snakebit, not Adrian.

Against Iowa in 2018, Adrian's the one who brought us back from 15 points down with two fourth quarter scores (one pass and one run) and a 2-pt conversion to tie it. Then the defense couldn't get a stop.

Against OSU in 2018, Adrian got us within a score twice in the fourth quarter. Never got a chance to tie because defense couldn't get a stop.

After being up 17-0 against CU in 2019, He put us back up by 10 in the 3rd, and then put us back up by 7 with 5 minutes left in the fourth quarter. Defense couldn't get a stop, CU scored and forced overtime.

Who got us within field goal range to walk off with the win against NW in 2019?

Bottom line is, Adrian's definitely hurt us. But how many of those specific moments would we remember and harp on if the defense would've gotten one more stop, or a receiver would've made one catch? 

There's also dozens of other examples of similar snakebit things happening to this program before Adrian, and to other players while Adrian has been here. The freak Kenny Bell fall-down pick six that started the 2012 B1G CCG. The freak first play from scrimmage fumble at our own 9 yard line by Maurice Purify in the 2006 Big XII CCG. The Terrence Nunn fumble. The LeKevin Smith fumble. Tommy Armstrong's overtime INT against Miami. Joe Ganz' overtime INT against Texas Tech. The Texas A&M roughing the passer penalty. Texas :01. The list goes on and on and on and on.
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This is pretty good perspective. Adrian is probably the best all around QB we've had since Ganz and Zac Taylor. I think he's better than Ganz was and his mobility probably puts him ahead of Taylor. Tommy and TMart made similar or worse mistakes than Adrian, but people want to forget those.

 
BaytownHusker said:
I wish some one would ask Frost or hell even ask AM why on the last drive when you need explosive plays your 3 WR's are not Toure, Manning and Betts. There is no way in hell you cant tell me that combo cant run slants, posts, drags, go routes.
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Yep.  Our defense gets eaten up on 2 minute drives with the short passing game.  Yet we seem to not be able to replicate what teams do against us. 

 
ZRod said:
This is pretty good perspective. Adrian is probably the best all around QB we've had since Ganz and Zac Taylor. I think he's better than Ganz was and his mobility probably puts him ahead of Taylor. Tommy and TMart made similar or worse mistakes than Adrian, but people want to forget those.
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I think there's a lot of recency bias in your post. Not many were overly impressed with how their overall careers panned out.

 
Archy1221 said:
Yep.  Our defense gets eaten up on 2 minute drives with the short passing game.  Yet we seem to not be able to replicate what teams do against us. 
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They did that last night 3-4 times.....For a great gain each time.  Like you, why can't we steal that from teams.  That delayed drag into the middle ahs killed up for 3.5 years now....Or use our TE's in the same way.

I hate the flash this brilliant play calling on offense and it simply goes away.....

 
Stone Cold said:
This is the worst take but im not callying you out devo.  We have all complained about adrian.  Let me ask all of you this,  when has there ever been a perfect qb here.  In the last 20 years of me really paying attention and following online there has never been one qb i have had total utter faith in throwing the ball.  And if we are the type of offence who just cant get that then the ball needs to stay on the ground most of the game.  We b!^@h about adrian, tommy, cody, keller, ganz, taylor, smothers, i mean the list goes on and on and on and on and on.  
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I have no problem with how 2AM is throwing the ball this year.  That's not the issue with the team.

You're right.  There is not such a thing as a perfect QB.  I watched a little NFL yesterday.  You know what?  Every game had the QB miss a pass every once in a while.

 
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Stone Cold said:
This is the worst take but im not callying you out devo.  We have all complained about adrian.  Let me ask all of you this,  when has there ever been a perfect qb here.  In the last 20 years of me really paying attention and following online there has never been one qb i have had total utter faith in throwing the ball.  And if we are the type of offence who just cant get that then the ball needs to stay on the ground most of the game.  We b!^@h about adrian, tommy, cody, keller, ganz, taylor, smothers, i mean the list goes on and on and on and on and on.  
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I am not trying to put the kid down, and I started by saying this is a great kid, great ambassador off the field, great athlete and puts up great stats.

I am saying what I have seen...and so have you, but you call it something else. No perfect QB exists I suppose. But, I have seen kids with less talent, ability and stats win games, and want the ball in critical situations because they "know" they can finish. I don't think that's Adrian.  

 
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DevoHusker said:
I am not trying to put the kid down, and I started by saying this is a great kid, great ambassador off the field, great athlete and puts up great stats.

I am saying what I have seen...and so have you, but you call it something else. No perfect QB exists I suppose. But, I have seen kids with less talent, ability and stats win games, and want the ball in critical situations because they "know" they can finish. I don't think that's Adrian.  
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I wonder if this point in is career, is he in his own head with the game on the line?  

 
lo country said:
I wonder if this point in is career, is he in his own head with the game on the line?  
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No way. The kid is a winner, not a doubt in my mind.. He had a game winning drive against MSU. His punt team made it so that it didn't end up being a game winning drive, but with 3 minutes left, he marched his team down the field and took the lead.

Players who consistently lead game winning drives do so when they have consistent and high caliber team mates around them. I don't think for a second that he would falter at all if he had an o line that could give him more than 1.5 seconds in a randomly collapsing pocket or if he had tight ends and WR that were automatically where they needed to be on routes consistently. Only when the entire team functions like clockwork can you reliably expect the QB to go fetch a win. 

AM's biggest issue is that he covers up so well for these things for so much of the game that when the impossible odds finally catch up to him, it falls apart and people stand there and rake him over the coals for it. The fact that we are even in games with the o line that we have and the inconsistent WR's is a testament to his talents. The fact that it breaks down when we are overmatched and opponents finally pin their ears back with nothing to lose is not the sign of choking, its the sign of where we really are as a team.  But we will get better. It's just not only Adrian out there responsible for it. 

 
DevoHusker said:
But, I have seen kids with less talent, ability and stats win games, and want the ball in critical situations because they "know" they can finish.
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But I think that statistically these occurrences are found when the talent & ability of those around them are at a star level.

Put Junior/Senior year Ameer Abdullah on this team and that play that resulted in the fumble (that was probably more due to the whistle not getting blown early enough than anything else) would have been a handoff to the RB who picks up the first down.

 
lo country said:
I wonder if this point in is career, is he in his own head with the game on the line?  
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This. 

And I wonder, after thinking the sky was the limit while watching him his freshman year,  how much Verduzco plays into it. 

Undone said:
But I think that statistically these occurrences are found when the talent & ability of those around them are at a star level.

Put Junior/Senior year Ameer Abdullah on this team and that play that resulted in the fumble (that was probably more due to the whistle not getting blown early enough than anything else) would have been a handoff to the RB who picks up the first down.
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This is a valid point. 

 
DevoHusker said:
I am not trying to put the kid down, and I started by saying this is a great kid, great ambassador off the field, great athlete and puts up great stats.

I am saying what I have seen...and so have you, but you call it something else. No perfect QB exists I suppose. But, I have seen kids with less talent, ability and stats win games, and want the ball in critical situations because they "know" they can finish. I don't think that's Adrian.  
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lo country said:
I wonder if this point in is career, is he in his own head with the game on the line?  
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I won't argue against Adrian having some backbreaking mistakes or failures at the worst times in his career. But, I do think it is somewhat overblown.

I think there are two bigger factors at play than the "Adrian isn't clutch" factor. The first is just a matter of narrative and perspective - Adrian has had plenty of comebacks and drives to either take the lead or tie late in the game, only to have special teams or defense not get the needed stop. The second is that I think Frost's 2 minute offense and overtime offense scheming is a much, much bigger culprit than Adrian. I don't think I've ever seen our playcalling put him in a great position for success in the last 2 minutes or OT of his career here. I've gone back and looked at all the close games he's played in. Just a cursory glance not super in depth:

2018

Colorado - Adrian gets us the lead on a 57 yard touchdown to Spielman. Defense gives up a late third quarter score and a late fourth quarter score to CU, and Adrian gets hurt.

Northwestern - Adrian gets us a two score lead in the fourth, as well as a 2 point conversion. NW scores, 7 point game, we get a FG, 10 point game. They go 62 yards for a field goal, we can't get a first down running up the gut, then they go 99 yards to tie and send it to overtime. Throws a pick, NW wins on a FG.

Ohio State - Down 9 in the fourth, Adrian gets us a field goal on a 65 yard drive to get within 6, OSU scores again, Adrian orchestrates a 75 yard drive and touchdown to get within 5, OSU gets a first down and runs out the clock.

Michigan State - We get three drives resulting in field goals in the last 11 minutes to take the lead, and the defense does its job against one of the worst offenses in history.

Iowa - Down 15 in the 4th, Adrian orchestrates a 98 yard drive and an 80 yard drive, and a 2-Pt conversion, to get us tied with 3:22 left. Iowa drives down the field and wins as time expires.

2019

Colorado - Up 17-0 at half, our defense can't stop Colorado from coming back. Two 75 yard drives in the 4th quarter kept extending our lead, and CU kept scoring to match. Our OT possession went Maurice for no gain, Maurice for one yard, Adrian sacked, missed field goal. CU wins.

Illinois - 75 yard drive for a touchdown with 8 minutes left in the 4th to take the lead by 4, then another 70 yard drive to take a touchdown lead but we miss the field goal. Defense holds up, forcing a turnover on downs, we run out the clock.

Northwestern - Get the ball tied with one minute left, drive 42 yards to kick the game winning field goal as time expires.

Purdue - 75 yard touchdown drive early in the 4th to go up 3, Purdue goes up 4, then a 71 yard touchdown drive to go up 3 again with 2:29 left, defense can't hold and Purdue scores a touchdown with one minute left. Our final drive went incomplete pass, incomplete pass, pass for 7 yards, incomplete pass broken up turnover on downs.

Iowa - Down 14 in the second half, score two touchdowns on 60 yard drives in the 3rd. 8 punts later, Iowa drives down for a game winning field goal with :01 left.

2020

Northwestern - Our offense did nothing all second half.

Iowa - Offense couldn't do anything for the last 25 minutes, Adrian gets sacked and fumbled with 1:18 to play down by 6.

Minnesota - Minn goes up 10 at the end of the 3rd after an Adrian fumble, we come back and get a field goal to get within 7, but Michigan runs out the last 5 minutes.

Rutgers - 90 yard and 96 yard drives in the 3rd to tie, then a 92 yard drive at 9:55 left in the 4th to take the lead. Defense gets an interception, offense bleeds out the last 7:26 of game clock

 
Lorewarn said:
I won't argue against Adrian having some backbreaking mistakes or failures at the worst times in his career. But, I do think it is somewhat overblown.

I think there are two bigger factors at play than the "Adrian isn't clutch" factor. The first is just a matter of narrative and perspective - Adrian has had plenty of comebacks and drives to either take the lead or tie late in the game, only to have special teams or defense not get the needed stop. The second is that I think Frost's 2 minute offense and overtime offense scheming is a much, much bigger culprit than Adrian. I don't think I've ever seen our playcalling put him in a great position for success in the last 2 minutes or OT of his career here. I've gone back and looked at all the close games he's played in. Just a cursory glance not super in depth:

2018

Colorado - Adrian gets us the lead on a 57 yard touchdown to Spielman. Defense gives up a late third quarter score and a late fourth quarter score to CU, and Adrian gets hurt.

Northwestern - Adrian gets us a two score lead in the fourth, as well as a 2 point conversion. NW scores, 7 point game, we get a FG, 10 point game. They go 62 yards for a field goal, we can't get a first down running up the gut, then they go 99 yards to tie and send it to overtime. Throws a pick, NW wins on a FG.

Ohio State - Down 9 in the fourth, Adrian gets us a field goal on a 65 yard drive to get within 6, OSU scores again, Adrian orchestrates a 75 yard drive and touchdown to get within 5, OSU gets a first down and runs out the clock.

Michigan State - We get three drives resulting in field goals in the last 11 minutes to take the lead, and the defense does its job against one of the worst offenses in history.

Iowa - Down 15 in the 4th, Adrian orchestrates a 98 yard drive and an 80 yard drive, and a 2-Pt conversion, to get us tied with 3:22 left. Iowa drives down the field and wins as time expires.

2019

Colorado - Up 17-0 at half, our defense can't stop Colorado from coming back. Two 75 yard drives in the 4th quarter kept extending our lead, and CU kept scoring to match. Our OT possession went Maurice for no gain, Maurice for one yard, Adrian sacked, missed field goal. CU wins.

Illinois - 75 yard drive for a touchdown with 8 minutes left in the 4th to take the lead by 4, then another 70 yard drive to take a touchdown lead but we miss the field goal. Defense holds up, forcing a turnover on downs, we run out the clock.

Northwestern - Get the ball tied with one minute left, drive 42 yards to kick the game winning field goal as time expires.

Purdue - 75 yard touchdown drive early in the 4th to go up 3, Purdue goes up 4, then a 71 yard touchdown drive to go up 3 again with 2:29 left, defense can't hold and Purdue scores a touchdown with one minute left. Our final drive went incomplete pass, incomplete pass, pass for 7 yards, incomplete pass broken up turnover on downs.

Iowa - Down 14 in the second half, score two touchdowns on 60 yard drives in the 3rd. 8 punts later, Iowa drives down for a game winning field goal with :01 left.

2020

Northwestern - Our offense did nothing all second half.

Iowa - Offense couldn't do anything for the last 25 minutes, Adrian gets sacked and fumbled with 1:18 to play down by 6.

Minnesota - Minn goes up 10 at the end of the 3rd after an Adrian fumble, we come back and get a field goal to get within 7, but Michigan runs out the last 5 minutes.

Rutgers - 90 yard and 96 yard drives in the 3rd to tie, then a 92 yard drive at 9:55 left in the 4th to take the lead. Defense gets an interception, offense bleeds out the last 7:26 of game clock
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Great info.  Thanks. I agree with the bolded.  Our 2 min offense looks like a fire drill.  No real rhyme or reason to it.  No ebb and flow.  Although we need to be quick in it's execution we seem panicked and flustered.  And not just against UM, but most teams and times.  Again to the eye test.  Unsure if data backs this up, but me like most are trying to figure how and why we do so poorly in the 1 score games.....And how to turn it around.  We go even 50% in those games, Frost is rock solid.  It's just one mistake here or there that has kept up from bowling the past 3 years in these 1 score games (yes we could have gone bowling last year, but am referring to the usual 6 wins scenario)

 
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