Michigan State Week Pressers

One of the more knowledgeable football people I know IRL is a co-worker. Enjoy talking 'skers ball with him. It was probably either heading into year 2 or year 3 of Frost's tenure that he said, referring to what the local beat writers were talking about heading into that season, "I'm sick of talking about culture; just play the damn games."

Fair statement. But holy cow. When I listen to Butler and I see what the coaches are doing and specifically Rhule, it's like the team's psychology & culture has really done a 180° turnaround. Culture was a big problem.

It seems like this team just cares more about winning and more specifically, not losing. They just really don't want to lose. Yes, several coaches are big upgrades over Frost & his guys so obviously they're just being coached better from a football perspective.

But the culture is really heading in the right direction now.

 
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Undone said:
One of the more knowledgeable football people I know IRL is a co-worker. Enjoy talking 'skers ball with him. It was probably either heading into year 2 or year 3 of Frost's tenure that he said, referring to what the local beat writers were talking about heading into that season, "I'm sick of talking about culture; just play the damn games."

Fair statement. But holy cow. When I listen to Butler and I see what the coaches are doing and specifically Rhule, it's like the team's psychology & culture has really done a 180° turnaround. Culture was a big problem.

It seems like this team just cares more about winning and more specifically, not losing. They just really don't want to lose. Yes, several coaches are big upgrades over Frost & his guys so obviously they're just being coached better from a football perspective.

But the culture is really heading in the right direction now.
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I think Frost's biggest issue is he wanted the players to set the culture so they owned it, like Tom did, but that only works if you already have a successful culture established. You gotta kick some butts and break people down to mold a losing team into winners before you can let them police themselves.

You see Rhule breaking guys down and building them backup in the preseason clips. Specifically when he sent the first team D off the practice field twice. They knew what he was doing, why he was doing it, and they embrace/learned from it. Now look at them!

 
ZRod said:
I think Frost's biggest issue is he wanted the players to set the culture so they owned it, like Tom did, but that only works if you already have a successful culture established. You gotta kick some butts and break people down to mold a losing team into winners before you can let them police themselves.

You see Rhule breaking guys down and building them backup in the preseason clips. Specifically when he sent the first team D off the practice field twice. They knew what he was doing, why he was doing it, and they embrace/learned from it. Now look at them!
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Great stuff. I think you're exactly right with the bold. Scott took for granted what "Step 1" should have really looked like.

 
ZRod said:
I think Frost's biggest issue is he wanted the players to set the culture so they owned it, like Tom did, but that only works if you already have a successful culture established. You gotta kick some butts and break people down to mold a losing team into winners before you can let them police themselves.

You see Rhule breaking guys down and building them backup in the preseason clips. Specifically when he sent the first team D off the practice field twice. They knew what he was doing, why he was doing it, and they embrace/learned from it. Now look at them!
Click to expand...
I remember being completely enthralled with that clip. I was extremely impressed with how Reimer and Heinrich guided the D through that practice. I can’t remember which time it was they got sent off, but the event that triggered it was a d-lineman hitting the QB and Rhule went beserk about playing with discipline, i.e. not hitting a green jersey player. One of the D-Lineman said back, “tell those m’fers to block then!” or something very similar. When Reimer and He Rich got them all together in the indoor facility, I was impressed on how they calmed them all down and got them refocused. It was that clip that convinced me this D was going to be pretty salty. 

 
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ZRod said:
I think Frost's biggest issue is he wanted the players to set the culture so they owned it, like Tom did, but that only works if you already have a successful culture established. You gotta kick some butts and break people down to mold a losing team into winners before you can let them police themselves.
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I've had a few bosses that I'd say were too nice or too laid-back for their own damn good. I liked them, they were nice to be around, but they never really cracked the whip enough to keep guys in line and doing their jobs. I think Frost is probably like that, and in a different way so is Riley.

 
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Toe said:
I've had a few bosses that I'd say were too nice or too laid-back for their own damn good. I liked them, they were nice to be around, but they never really cracked the whip enough to keep guys in line and doing their jobs. I think Frost is probably like that, and in a different way so is Riley.
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My favorite and most productive boss was also the most laid back ever, but a professional office is a lot different than 18 to 24 year old athletes.

 
Undone said:
Great stuff. I think you're exactly right with the bold. Scott took for granted what "Step 1" should have really looked like.
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Frost, if the rumors were true, was the farthest thing from an example to be followed.  Culture starts from the top.  The team wasn't stupid.  Just my .02

 
Undone said:
It was probably either heading into year 2 or year 3 of Frost's tenure that he said, referring to what the local beat writers were talking about heading into that season, "I'm sick of talking about culture; just play the damn games."
Click to expand...
ZRod said:
I think Frost's biggest issue is he wanted the players to set the culture so they owned it, like Tom did, but that only works if you already have a successful culture established. You gotta kick some butts and break people down to mold a losing team into winners before you can let them police themselves.

You see Rhule breaking guys down and building them backup in the preseason clips. Specifically when he sent the first team D off the practice field twice. They knew what he was doing, why he was doing it, and they embrace/learned from it. Now look at them!
Click to expand...
I believe Frost went with a win now mode that sacrificed culture of discipline and development. Stuck by players who were immature/baggage (MoWa) and also alienated Riley players (Spielman). He never learned how to undo year-1 and was desperately chasing wins. 
 

Rhule appears to be a coach who means what he says. Was it the halftime speech of the NW game where he talks about taking on a blocker to let the teammate clean up a tackle? I loved that and I believe their discipline is why they have been fun to watch.

 
Nobody said:
yeah right.
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So, what then? It's just luck that we're about to have the best season in six years?

Nobody said:
and mike rileys temperament was a big step up from pelinis. 
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So I hear you defending Scott Frost with this comment then, right? Scott didn't have any problems with culture and that's why he had that great... *checks notes* ...34% winning percentage?

Mentioning Riley's temperament compared to Bo like you did is a huge fail, because Bo was actually a good coach. So you can see why it has nothing to do with the Rhule/Frost comparisons, because Frost was hammered dog s***.

 
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