Mike Leach on QB Accuracy

[Husker Psycho]

What exactly is accuracy? Is it some magic dust detached from other fundamentals?

Tommy is, on his best day in the most 'pure' representation of his talent, extremely accurate. Trouble is, he often fudges it up by falling backwards, shifting his weight poorly, making poor decisions, etc.

Does that mean he's inaccurate, or does that mean that he's accurate but has other problems, or are those the same thing?

No, he is not accurate. The things you mentioned are problems that make him an inaccurate thrower. His mechanics are so poor that it's basically impossible for him to be a consistent thrower.

To me, there are two parts to accuracy. Most of it can be gauged by completion percentage. It's not a perfect gauge but over time it gives you a pretty good idea. The other part of it is throwing the ball where it needs to be to protect receivers and allow them to make a bigger play after the catch. For those who want to point to receiver drops (which happen to all QBs, not just those who complete 55% of their passes) I would point to the MSU game last year (amongst others) where Westerkamp not only bailed TA out on several occasions by catching poorly thrown balls but also took several huge hits because he had to leave himself completely vulnerable to be able to make the catch. He bailed TA out of throwing a poorly accurate ball with some great plays.

Great thread starter... very interesting subject.

Leach is 100% correct... it's a natural talent that very few people possess.

Accuracy is the ability to throw or hit or shoot something to a very small place in space (target). Very few people have the ability to do that.

Throwing a football to a receiver in exactly the right spot (target) is complicated by the fact that the receiver is often moving and being defended. The quarterback not only has to throw to a very small target but often has to "lead" the receiver so they can run under or into the target point.

In order to do that it takes a very rare combination of perfect body mechanics... a mind that has the natural ability to figure out coordinates (location of target) in space... and eyes that can see and focus on those coordinates (target), without loosing focus... as pass rushers are coming at you, or in your face... with the intention of body slaming you to the ground. LOL

Leach is a very smart guy. Thanks again for sharing that video.

 

[marko polo]

Tommy's mechanics were fine-or good enough-as a freshman. Same with Martinez. These guys regressed under the lack of teaching of a true qb coach. and it shows. Not sure how much blame can be put on Beck as to whether he was thrust into the role or not. But it's on pretty good truth that when these guys got here, our qb's didnt even know the most well-known basic warm up progressions. Pretyy telling. We'll see this year if Armstrong has a better year or not under a real qb guy. But to me it's no coincidence that by year 4, Armstrong had developed a lazy, off-the-back-foot motion similar to what Martinez had developed. Im not suggesting the wrong thing was being taught. I just think it was like a lot of things in the Pelini era. Lack of attention to detail. Prior to 2012, Martinez spent the summer with a true qb guru. Obvious improvements were seen. But by the end of the season, he was reverting back to his ugly 2011 mechanics.

No they weren't. He's always had terrible footwork. That's a lot of the reason why he was a 51% passer that year.

I'm pretty convinced that having such a strong arm is why he never developed proper footwork. In high school he could always just muscle the ball wherever he wanted it to go. He never had to try to develop good footwork to be a good passer because he could get by on arm strength. Plus he could could make up for lack of passing skills with being such a better athlete than most other guys he played. But once you've had that bad of fundamentals for that long, it's almost impossible to change them. You can look better in practice but when things are happening fast during games you revert back to your old habits.

spot on!

 

[Landlord]

Tommy's mechanics were fine-or good enough-as a freshman.

No they weren't. He's always had terrible footwork. That's a lot of the reason why he was a 51% passer that year.

Yeah...usually Count has really good recollection of this stuff but every once in a while he gets these goofy fake memories like this. You're right, Tommy has never had good, or fine, mechanics.

 

[Husker Psycho]

Tommy's mechanics were fine-or good enough-as a freshman. Same with Martinez. These guys regressed under the lack of teaching of a true qb coach. and it shows. Not sure how much blame can be put on Beck as to whether he was thrust into the role or not. But it's on pretty good truth that when these guys got here, our qb's didnt even know the most well-known basic warm up progressions. Pretyy telling. We'll see this year if Armstrong has a better year or not under a real qb guy. But to me it's no coincidence that by year 4, Armstrong had developed a lazy, off-the-back-foot motion similar to what Martinez had developed. Im not suggesting the wrong thing was being taught. I just think it was like a lot of things in the Pelini era. Lack of attention to detail. Prior to 2012, Martinez spent the summer with a true qb guru. Obvious improvements were seen. But by the end of the season, he was reverting back to his ugly 2011 mechanics.

I think a lot of us may have just overlooked both quarterbacks passing flaws in their early careers simply because they were new players. We didn't have a lot of replays to look at... yet. We got excited by their newness and by the things they did well... IE, Martinez ability to take off running when pass plays broke down. As they got older we had a lot more examples of what they were doing. Plus both players throwing problems were made even more evident by the fact that more emphasis was put on their throwing by the coaches. Martinez because he was hurt... and they didn't want him running as much... Armstrong last year because he was simply passing more because of the new offence concept.

When players are young and full of promise... it's easy to overlook some things. If we do see it, we assume those things will get fixed. That doesn't always happen.

I agree... that to a degree... I believe to a large degree... it's the responsibility of the coaching staffs to recognize player strengths and weakness and put all players in a position to succeed by emphasizing their strengths and minimizing play where their weakness can hurt us.

Both players are who they are. They both played their hearts out for us.

 

[Count 'Bility]

from a standpoint of throwing off his back foot, or leaning back, yes, he was much better as a freshman. I dont get too caught up in the footwork and all. Im talkin about lookin like a complete clown throwin the ball. Ala yolo Martinez. That's what Armstrong has become. You can nitpick footwork and little stuff on any qb. But in a general sense, Armstrong was better early on. So was Martinez. Plenty of youtube footage. Like i said. I think it was the result of erratic coaching that didnt put enough stress on such things. Maybe it wasnt "good enough" whatever. It's debateable. 51% as a freshman cant be blamed only on footwork. i'll make this debate all day. But his overall mechanics have regressed. If you cant see that watching highlights form 2013, 14 and 15, I guess i'm a complete idiot then. Same with Martinez. And I'll put Cardale jones in there too. LOL

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Martinez got better as his receivers got better. And I actually thought he was a solid passer as a freshman -- more than you could expect from a QB who's even better as a running threat.

I think Armstrong suffers from Brett Favre syndrome: he actually has an incredible arm and good accuracy and a history of miracle plays, so it convinces him he can complete passes he shouldn't throw.

Again, that's more decision making than mechanics.

But to hear the QB whisperers tell it, it's all about the footwork. They don't even care what the guys do with their arms until they understand the footwork. And both Martinez and Armstrong suffer(ed) from suspect footwork.

 

[Mavric]

from a standpoint of throwing off his back foot, or leaning back, yes, he was much better as a freshman. I dont get too caught up in the footwork and all. Im talkin about lookin like a complete clown throwin the ball. Ala yolo Martinez. That's what Armstrong has become. You can nitpick footwork and little stuff on any qb. But in a general sense, Armstrong was better early on. So was Martinez. Plenty of youtube footage. Like i said. I think it was the result of erratic coaching that didnt put enough stress on such things. Maybe it wasnt "good enough" whatever. It's debateable. 51% as a freshman cant be blamed only on footwork. i'll make this debate all day. But his overall mechanics have regressed. If you cant see that watching highlights form 2013, 14 and 15, I guess i'm a complete idiot then. Same with Martinez. And I'll put Cardale jones in there too. LOL

I think you are going complete revisionist here.

Martinez:

Fr - 59.2% completions, 8.3 ypa, 10 TDs, 7 INTs, 138.8 rating

So - 56.3%, 7.3 ypa, 13 TDs, 8 INTs, 126.5 rating

Jr - 62.0%, 7.8 ypa, 23 TDs, 12 INTs, 141.6 rating

Sr - 62.7%, 6.1 ypa, 10 TDs, 2 INTs, 140.0 rating

Armstrong:

Fr - 51.9%, 7.37 ypa, 9 TDs, 8 INTs, 124.3 rating

So - 53.3%, 7.81 ypa, 22 TDs, 12 INTs, 133.0 rating

Jr - 55.2%, 7.54 ypa, 22 TDs, 16 INTs, 128.6 rating

I don't know what "general sense" you are talking about. Martinez's worst completion percentage is better that TA's best. Only TA's freshman year - where he played 2/3 of a season - is better that Martinez's worst year throwing INTs. TA only has one year better than any of Martinez's for QB rating.

Now, if you don't like how Martinez looked throwing the ball, that's fine. But he was FAR more effective at doing it that TA. And I'll take production over style points every day of the week and twice on Saturday.

And it's not "nitpicking" to talk about TA's footwork. Martinez's wasn't any good either but he overcame it much better than TA has. For both of them, it's not some footnote. It's the fundamental reason why neither were as good as they could have been.

 

[Landlord]

Yeah...I'm wondering what exactly the metric is that says that Tommy and Taylor were better early on. Certainly it isn't based on stats, but count also said it's not really the footwork or little stuff, but in a general sense. What the hell does that mean?

 

[Count 'Bility]

nothing ive said has anything to do with stats or overall performance. it's strictly a mechanics standpoint. I dont care about stats. I see what I see. Watch film. From and uneducated standpoint (i say this cuz obviously im not guru). Early in both careers they both appeared to have a better throwing motion than what they have developed. Is this that hard to understand what I'm saying?

 

[Landlord]

nothing ive said has anything to do with stats or overall performance. it's strictly a mechanics standpoint. I dont care about stats. I see what I see. Watch film. From and uneducated standpoint (i say this cuz obviously im not guru). Early in both careers they both appeared to have a better throwing motion than what they have developed. Is this that hard to understand what I'm saying?

No, I just disagree. When Taylor was healthy his junior year and beginning of senior year, he looked at minimum just as good, if not quite a lot better throwing the ball than he did his freshman year, imo. Tommy's always been the same in my eyeball test.

 

[Mavric]

nothing ive said has anything to do with stats or overall performance. it's strictly a mechanics standpoint. I dont care about stats. I see what I see. Watch film. From and uneducated standpoint (i say this cuz obviously im not guru). Early in both careers they both appeared to have a better throwing motion than what they have developed. Is this that hard to understand what I'm saying?

No, I just disagree. When Taylor was healthy his junior year and beginning of senior year, he looked at minimum just as good, if not quite a lot better throwing the ball than he did his freshman year, imo. Tommy's always been the same in my eyeball test.

I pretty much agree with this. Taylor was OK to start, was terrible after his injury but got better later in his career.

I don't see any difference on TA from Freshman to last year on straight drop-back passes. Maybe he's worse at falling backwards on rollouts but I don't remember him rolling out nearly as much early on so I'm not sure.

 

[drfish]

I absolutely think TA CAN improve his completion percentage (admittedly not quite the same as accuracy, but...). There was such a dichotomy between Good Tommy performance and Bad Tommy performance. It will all depend on decision making. I thought some of his problems last year were the result of the history of Jekyll and Hyde performances like IA in 2014. Go win the game. Also, the tendency for his receivers to win the jump ball battle probably made him feel like all he had to do was get it close, so he would go for the home run ball instead of a modest move the chains throw (like the 4th down in the 2015 IA game). That being said, I have no idea if TA WILL improve it. If he really learns to check down and the screen game improves I could see him throw maybe 62%. We'll see.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Tommy Armstrong rollouts with an equal threat to run or pass is a genuine headache for opposing DCs.

 

[MichiganDad3]

TA's accuracy is good enough if he throws less than 25 times per game and has at least 5 carries. If TA throws 40 times per game his accuracy is lacking.

 

[GBRFAN]

how does his accuracy change by how many throws he has - usually the more you do something the better / more consistent you get. However, if he is a poor thrower then you would hate to see him throw 40 times a game.