Minnesota may be a model for us

[LumberJackSker]

People claiming chin has improved the defense by leaps and bounds might be getting a little ahead of themselves considering there's two teams left on the schedule who will probably boat race this defense. Might alter where they rank in total yards, rushing defense and 3rd down defense. 

 

[Husker in WI]

I'm not arguing that we've improved by leaps and bounds. I'm arguing that our situation isn't even close to Minnesota's despite people claiming the piece of their 'model' we need to follow is firing the DC. You can fire a guy in year 2 is things are clearly going backwards. You don't fire him in year 2 if they're not moving as fast as you think they should.

 

[Nebfanatic]

I'm not re-litigating Frost's presence in Lincoln.  I'm plainly on the record saying that Frost should be here.

Then you keep saying things like if he can't make the tough decisions then ......

HOW has the defense improved?  Help me out, cause when I look at the scoreboard, I'm not seeing it.

PPG allowed 2017-36.4 114th

                        2018-33.3 94th 

                        2019-29.1 72nd 

Total Defense 2017-94th

                          2018-92nd

                          2019-65th

Rushing D 2017-108th

                   2018-94th

                   2019-77th

Passing D 2017-55th(30 attempts pg)

                   2018-76th(35 attempts pg)

                   2019-71st(33 attempts pg)

Only statistic we are worse in

Sacks 2017-117th

            2018-82nd

            2019-65th

Passer rating 2017-91st

                         2018-34th

                         2019-47th

Takeaways 2017-115th

                     2018-62nd

                     2019-54th

Yards per play 2017-109th

                           2018-78th

                           2019-58th

 

[Nebfanatic]

People claiming chin has improved the defense by leaps and bounds might be getting a little ahead of themselves considering there's two teams left on the schedule who will probably boat race this defense. Might alter where they rank in total yards, rushing defense and 3rd down defense. 

Or maybe the defense performs about the same as they have all season and the numbers stay about the same. I would say that is a possibility as well.

 

[FrantzHardySwag]

Then you keep saying things like if he can't make the tough decisions then ......

PPG allowed 2017-36.4 114th

                        2018-33.3 94th 

                        2019-29.1 72nd 

Total Defense 2017-94th

                          2018-92nd

                          2019-65th

Rushing D 2017-108th

                   2018-94th

                   2019-77th

Passing D 2017-55th(30 attempts pg)

                   2018-76th(35 attempts pg)

                   2019-71st(33 attempts pg)

Only statistic we are worse in

Sacks 2017-117th

            2018-82nd

            2019-65th

Passer rating 2017-91st

                         2018-34th

                         2019-47th

Takeaways 2017-115th

                     2018-62nd

                     2019-54th

Yards per play 2017-109th

                           2018-78th

                           2019-58th

Do you have the numbers for 3rd down defense and redzone defense? 

 

[alexhortdog95]

I about have these memorized because people love to ignore facts that don't support their claims.

2017 (pre-Chinander): 36.4 ppg (116th)

2018: 31.3 ppg (88th)

2019 (so far): 29.1 ppg (79th)

Again, not as fast as we want but still improving. And given the injuries and lack of depth this year, I'm betting on a bigger improvement next year.

The example people keep bring up is Minnesota. They went from:

2016 (pre-Robb Smith): 22.1 ppg (22nd)

2017: 22.8 (36th) - not bad yet!

2018 (before he was fired): 31.8 (92nd)

If you can explain to me why you think giving up 9 points more per game and dropping 70 ranks is the same as giving up 7 less per game and rising 37 ranks, I will agree we should fire Chinander.

Because stats don't always tell the true story.  People can look at stats, here's one:

This season, Nebraska is 58th in third down defensive efficiency.

Last season, Nebraska was 88th in third down defensive efficiency.

Now, how has that improvement defensively on Third Down shown on the field?  I can tell you what I've seen -

October 1st, 2018:

https://www.omaha.com/sports/college/huskers/teams/football/husker-defense-coming-up-short-on-third-down-and-especially/article_251df52f-fb17-523f-890f-900141387726.html

October 29th, 2019:

https://nebraska.tv/sports/big-red-rundown/nebraskas-defense-dazed-on-third-downs

Let me demonstrate: 

You know, there was one game many years ago.  Nebraska ran for 354 yards on 49 carries, and scored five touchdowns.  They had 552 yards of total offense.

62-36, Colorado.

There was another game where a Husker QB threw for over 400 yards and 4 touchdowns, and the offense had 484 yards of total offense.

76-39, Kansas.

I said it in another thread.  Stats can get thrown around to push a narrative, but the only stat that matters in Sports is the scoreboard.

If a teams statistical ranking mattered anywhere else OTHER than the scoreboard, then guess what?

Tua outdueled Joe Burrow because he threw for 418 yards and 4 TDs vs 393 yards and 3 TDs.

Alabama really won because they had 537 total yards to LSU's 535 total yards.

LSU's defense got torched all 4 quarters because they gave up 41 to Alabama.

Except, none of that is true. 

Tua had two costly turnovers in the game, a fumble and a pick,

Most of Bama's yards came on large chunk plays in the 4th quarter, and

If LSU's D doesn't take its foot off the gas in the 4th quarter, Bama doesn't score more than 20.

 

[alexhortdog95]

Then you keep saying things like if he can't make the tough decisions then ......

ANY coach that shows that nepotism is more important than doing the job he/she was hired to do doesn't need to be paid millions of dollars a year.  Say what you want - the guy isn't hired to win the stat battle.  He's hired to put more points on the scoreboard than his opponent.  Period.

That ain't happening, folks.  So, what do you do to make it happen?

You start by addressing some obvious concerns first.

 

[Nebfanatic]

Do you have the numbers for 3rd down defense and redzone defense? 

3rd down 2017- 94th

                  2018-98th

                  2019-81st

Red zone% 2017-74th

                  2018- 77th

                  2019-108th

Red zone scores pg 2017-116th

                                    2018-114th

                                    2019-60th

 

[Husker in WI]

Because stats don't always tell the true story.  People can look at stats, here's one:

This season, Nebraska is 58th in third down defensive efficiency.

Last season, Nebraska was 88th in third down defensive efficiency.

Now, how has that improvement defensively on Third Down shown on the field?  I can tell you what I've seen -

October 1st, 2018:

https://www.omaha.com/sports/college/huskers/teams/football/husker-defense-coming-up-short-on-third-down-and-especially/article_251df52f-fb17-523f-890f-900141387726.html

October 29th, 2019:

https://nebraska.tv/sports/big-red-rundown/nebraskas-defense-dazed-on-third-downs

Let me demonstrate: 

You know, there was one game many years ago.  Nebraska ran for 354 yards on 49 carries, and scored five touchdowns.  They had 552 yards of total offense.

62-36, Colorado.

There was another game where a Husker QB threw for over 400 yards and 4 touchdowns, and the offense had 484 yards of total offense.

76-39, Kansas.

I said it in another thread.  Stats can get thrown around to push a narrative, but the only stat that matters in Sports is the scoreboard.

If a teams statistical ranking mattered anywhere else OTHER than the scoreboard, then guess what?

Tua outdueled Joe Burrow because he threw for 418 yards and 4 TDs vs 393 yards and 3 TDs.

Alabama really won because they had 537 total yards to LSU's 535 total yards.

LSU's defense got torched all 4 quarters because they gave up 41 to Alabama.

Except, none of that is true. 

Tua had two costly turnovers in the game, a fumble and a pick,

Most of Bama's yards came on large chunk plays in the 4th quarter, and

If LSU's D doesn't take its foot off the gas in the 4th quarter, Bama doesn't score more than 20.

I don't care about our offensive stats in blowout loses, or hypotheticals that would make other teams numbers look better/worse. If we're talking about firing a guy whose only job is the defense, you don't put the offensive shortcomings on him. Yes, at the end of the day winning is what matters. But at the same time you have angry fans here saying the defense is entirely to blame because the offense shouldn't "have to outscore people." If we're talking about the Defensive Coordinator, what are you using to decide he should or shouldn't be fired? The things he does have direct responsibility for (defensive performance), or the things he doesn't (our side of the scoreboard, game management decisions, etc)? It is not logically consistent to say defensive numbers be damned, the scoreboard is all that matters and then fire one guy who is only responsible for part of it. If it comes down to the scoreboard and no stats are relevant, it's the head coach or no one.

 

[TheSker]

Because stats don't always tell the true story.  People can look at stats, here's one:

This season, Nebraska is 58th in third down defensive efficiency.

Last season, Nebraska was 88th in third down defensive efficiency.

Now, how has that improvement defensively on Third Down shown on the field?  I can tell you what I've seen -

October 1st, 2018:

https://www.omaha.com/sports/college/huskers/teams/football/husker-defense-coming-up-short-on-third-down-and-especially/article_251df52f-fb17-523f-890f-900141387726.html

October 29th, 2019:

https://nebraska.tv/sports/big-red-rundown/nebraskas-defense-dazed-on-third-downs

Let me demonstrate: 

You know, there was one game many years ago.  Nebraska ran for 354 yards on 49 carries, and scored five touchdowns.  They had 552 yards of total offense.

62-36, Colorado.

There was another game where a Husker QB threw for over 400 yards and 4 touchdowns, and the offense had 484 yards of total offense.

76-39, Kansas.

I said it in another thread.  Stats can get thrown around to push a narrative, but the only stat that matters in Sports is the scoreboard.

If a teams statistical ranking mattered anywhere else OTHER than the scoreboard, then guess what?

Tua outdueled Joe Burrow because he threw for 418 yards and 4 TDs vs 393 yards and 3 TDs.

Alabama really won because they had 537 total yards to LSU's 535 total yards.

LSU's defense got torched all 4 quarters because they gave up 41 to Alabama.

Except, none of that is true. 

Tua had two costly turnovers in the game, a fumble and a pick,

Most of Bama's yards came on large chunk plays in the 4th quarter, and

If LSU's D doesn't take its foot off the gas in the 4th quarter, Bama doesn't score more than 20.

You keep saying scoreboard is all that matters.  The one responsible for both how much we score and how much we give up is Frost.

And statistically, the offense regressed.

Yet you're obsessed with Chinander.

 

[alexhortdog95]

3rd down 2017- 94th

                  2018-98th

                  2019-81st

Red zone% 2017-74th

                  2018- 77th

                  2019-108th

Red zone scores pg 2017-116th

                                    2018-114th

                                    2019-60th

I love how you threw the red zone scoring D out there.  What was the Red Zone scoring D ranking in 2016? 

 

[Nebfanatic]

I love how you threw the red zone scoring D out there.  What was the Red Zone scoring D ranking in 2016? 

He asked for 3rd down and redzone numbers I was looking for a seperate percentage for TDs allowed vs FGs but couldn't find it so I figured that would be the next best thing. Don't know what 2016 has to do with anything but we ranked 16th in that category that year.

Funny you bring 2016 up because Banker was scapegoated like Chinander is being scapegoated now and then Diaco happened. 

 

[alexhortdog95]

You keep saying scoreboard is all that matters.  The one responsible for both how much we score and how much we give up is Frost.

And statistically, the offense regressed.

Yet you're obsessed with Chinander.

Because in three specific losses the offense scored 31, 31, and 27 points.  Offense did what they needed to do in those games.  Period.

You all can make this out to be a me vs. Chin thing.  Like I said, I'm sure he's probably a nice guy.  But he's in over his head, and it's been obvious even before he got here - he's not a long term answer. 

 

[alexhortdog95]

He asked for 3rd down and redzone numbers I was looking for a seperate percentage for TDs allowed vs FGs but couldn't find it so I figured that would be the next best thing. Don't know what 2016 has to do with anything but we ranked 16th in that category that year.

Funny you bring 2016 up because Banker was scapegoated like Chinander is being scapegoated now and then Diaco happened. 

Because, stats.

Why did Banker get fired with the 16th ranked red zone defense that year?

According to many over here, that's awesome.  It was an improvement from previous years, right?

 

[Nebfanatic]

Because, stats.

Why did Banker get fired with the 16th ranked red zone defense that year?

According to many over here, that's awesome.  It was an improvement from previous years, right?

 How did firing Banker and bringing in a big name DC work out for us? I don't know why we fired Banker, he was the scapegoat for issues that were beyond his control.