Mo Washington Spill-Over Thread

[Redux]

She’s not even claiming she said no.

If this is true, it's not rape.

 

[StPaulHusker]

If this is true, it's not rape.

It still can be rape.  

 

[Redux]

It still can be rape.  

Two guys, pull over, engage in sexual intercourse, she partakes, never says no, but in her head she is THINKING no,  so guys never stop, never says no, video gets out .... NOW say rape.

If this constitutes rape then there are a lot more rapists in this world than I thought.

 

[StPaulHusker]

Two guys, pull over, engage in sexual intercourse, she partakes, never says no, but in her head she is THINKING no,  so guys never stop, never says no, video gets out .... NOW say rape.

If this constitutes rape then there are a lot more rapists in this world than I thought.

Her particular situation will be difficult to prove.  Especially since she’s claiming it 2-3 years later.  But there are numerous instances and cases where a woman didn’t say no and it was still rape.  The word no or stop or quit is not some magic word that takes sex from consensual to rape 

 

[Redux]

Her particular situation will be difficult to prove.  Especially since she’s claiming it 2-3 years later.  But there are numerous instances and cases where a woman didn’t say no and it was still rape.  The word no or stop or quit is not some magic word that takes sex from consensual to rape 

If you aren't telling someone no, who would stop if they heard it, are you being raped?  Obviously NO isn't magic, obviously it's not going to make a rapist stop.  But she never told them to stop, so they didn't stop but it's still rape?  Not buying it.

 

[StPaulHusker]

If you aren't telling someone no, who would stop if they heard it, are you being raped?  Obviously NO isn't magic, obviously it's not going to make a rapist stop.  But she never told them to stop, so they didn't stop but it's still rape?  Not buying it.

Again her situation is different.  It’s going to be difficult to prove if charges are filed

Here is a situation unrelated to what we are discussing:

A man beats his wife.  She fears him.  She knows if she doesn’t provide him sex he will beat her.  She doesn’t say no but that is rape.

 

[Redux]

That goes just beyond rape, that's domestic abuse AND sexual assault.  That's not two random people, that's a toxic relationship that stems years.

 

[StPaulHusker]

That goes just beyond rape, that's domestic abuse AND sexual assault.

Yes it does.  But the point I’m making is that sometimes a woman would “consent” out of fear of what could happen if she didn’t.  It’s still rape.

And just to be clear one more time, the girl that is being discussed here has to be able to prove or convince prosecutors that what she is saying now is what actually happened.  It’s going to be difficult.  I don’t think it’s appropriate for any of us not directly involved to claim it was or wasn’t and it’s certainly not appropriate to call her a hoe like JJ did

 

[Mavric]

@Mavric @JJ Husker

That isn’t what’s going on here. Yes it’s true that it’s the legal definition, but the girl is claiming it was non consensual, and not due to her age. She says she was an unwilling participant and said no multiple times.

That's what I said.  But we're talking about two different time frames.  Right after it happened, she didn't say it was non-consensual.  And she was expelled along with the boys.  It would have been odd for her to be kicked out of school if she had said it was non-consensual at the time.  Now - a couple years down the road - she is saying that.  

So it was always an assault under the law.  But she has not always said it was non-consensual.

 

[4skers89]

Her particular situation will be difficult to prove.  Especially since she’s claiming it 2-3 years later.  But there are numerous instances and cases where a woman didn’t say no and it was still rape.  The word no or stop or quit is not some magic word that takes sex from consensual to rape 

Hopefully the new magic word isn't MeToo.  Redux is bringing up a valid point and is a concern I had while dating.  I was probably naive thinking that I was protected in case someone claimed rape afterwards.  Are we going to get to a point where we need to have a girl sign a consent form and maybe get a video acknowledging that the sex about to be performed is consensual?  These are things I considered but figured if a woman was going to claim rape she would also claim them to be coerced.

 

[Mierin]

That's what I said.  But we're talking about two different time frames.  Right after it happened, she didn't say it was non-consensual.  And she was expelled along with the boys.  It would have been odd for her to be kicked out of school if she had said it was non-consensual at the time.  Now - a couple years down the road - she is saying that.  

So it was always an assault under the law.  But she has not always said it was non-consensual.

Yes I agree with all this. But your statement made JJ think the only reason anyone's talking about sexual assault is because of the weird California law.

 

[Stumpy1]

“Sounds to me like she was just a hoe that got some video proof of it thrown back at her”

No. JJ is a complete a$$h@!e for this quote without “knowing all the facts” as everyone wants to keep saying.

Maybe JJ is just calling a spade a spade.  Sometimes the truth hurts and isn't what people want to hear. 

 

[Redux]

Sometimes the truth hurts and isn't what people want to hear. 

 

[JJ Husker]

My guess is he serves a one game suspension and he's back for Colorado. 

At this point, I'm having trouble seeing why he should serve any punishment. Maybe an apology to the team for doing something stupid that generated bad publicity with a promise to think about the consequences, no matter how stupid some laws, before doing anything like that again.

I'm going to need just a few key pieces of evidence he did anything more than make a youthful mistake before I call for any punitive measures.

 

[JJ Husker]

You’re either being dense or you’re ignoring my partial answers. 

You said “Was the girl actually sexually assaulted or was that just a story when a video got out?”

The 2nd part of your question was incorrect regardless of the first part. It wasn’t a story when the video got out. It wasn’t an allegation until very recently, which is important, imo. On the first part, we can’t know if it was sexual assault. Only the girl and boys really know that. I really am tired of explaining that there doesn’t have to be obvious physical force for rape to be rape. It makes it almost impossible for her to prove it was rape but that doesn’t mean it’s not.

“Did the 2 kids she accused get any punishment whatsoever or was the assault case found totally lacking any evidence?”

I told you they got kicked out of school. Now you’re wondering how I answered your questions and you ask the same question again. What?

”Also, were all 3 actually expelled from the school or did any of them possibly leave by choice?”

I’ll answer it again for you - They got kicked out of school. 

“I can't imagine a girl who had actually or even possibly been sexually assaulted would ever be kicked out of her school.”

It’s really sad that I have to keep explaining this. She made no rape claim at the time it got out, so it’s likely there isn’t physical force shown in the video. This does not however mean it wasn’t rape. There is such a thing as blackmail, coercian, threats, other circumstances where, by the legal definition of rape, it’s rape without someone holding the victim down physically.

And I’ll repeat it again so I can avoid certain replies - I think there are several reasons to doubt her. I’m not believing her automatically. But thinking about sexual assault in general, you’re at least the 5th person on here who is talking like it can’t be rape because it doesn’t “look” like rape, as if rape has to look like physical force to be rape.

You don't have to explain any of this to me.

I understand it doesn't have to look like physical force to be assault or rape. Save that explanation for the people that don't get it.

Getting kicked out of school is not the kind of punishment I was referring to (except when I specifically asked about getting kicked out of school). I meant real, legal system type punishment. And yes, I wanted it clarified that she got kicked out of school and didn't transfer out of embarrassment or some such thing. My premise is, people who are sexually assaulted or raped don't get kicked out of school over it.  And I have a hard time believing the timeline of claims plays towards believing this girl now. She got kicked out of school but didn't claim it was rape at the time?She didn't claim it was rape when the video came out but does now.? The sexual assault case was resolved and the only punishments metted out we're the 3 of them all getting expelled from school?

Talk down to me anymore and we may have a problem. I'll admit when I'm being dense. Until then don't assume.