Moose advice to Frost

skersfan said:
skirt the issue
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I think hiring an  analysts for each side of would be a great idea, someone who can give an objective and as non biased input as possible would do nothing but help. And I know there’s people calling for Chins head, but I think continuity in the staff is extremely important, especially this early in our rebuild. If we are constantly changing DCs then our players will never fit the current system therefore we just repeat the cycle and never get out of our current predicament. Let the guys get to a few more years so our players on the field are extremely component in the system. That’s when success happens. Then with success comes better quality athletes we can recruit, which then allows us to replace a position coach or coordinator with more ease because are athletes can fit into a new system easier, because they’re better athletes. Nothing will ruin what Frost is trying to build more or faster then constant change and turmoil in the staff

 
Danimal said:
Frost and Chin are best buddies. Given that, there is a considerable question of his objectivity in this matter. Look at when Bobby Bowden hired Jeff Bowden to OC at FSU. Dude was obviously in way over his head but stuck around several years

Diaco was just-that, a big name. He had one big year where things fell together, ND had some very nice talent and they got lucky a couple times to play for it all. Dude was loathed at UConn. I wouldn't dismiss hiring a proven DC because Eichorst shoved Diaco down Riley's throat. 
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Lots of variables here, though. I know it's easy to say "fire this dude, take this highly-regarded DC and pay them whatever it takes to get them here."

But that could wind up being like finding the wrong piece to fill a hole in your puzzle and pounding on it until it kinda goes it. No matter how much you pound, it ain't gonna fit.

Count me among those who thinks there's value in continuity and not changing schemes dramatically, which is what we're gonna do if we change DC's. I've seen flashes of improved defensive play this season but the end results are disappointing.

I won't be mad if we keep Chin on because the longer we do the more we understand if it's a buy-in, culture or talent problem instead of a him problem.

 
Gorillahawk said:
I think hiring an  analysts for each side of would be a great idea, someone who can give an objective and as non biased input as possible would do nothing but help. And I know there’s people calling for Chins head, but I think continuity in the staff is extremely important, especially this early in our rebuild. If we are constantly changing DCs then our players will never fit the current system therefore we just repeat the cycle and never get out of our current predicament. 
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Continuity of staff is important.  Us fans can have some bad takes but when we collectively see the same things over and over there's probably something to it.  Obviously there are things on the field that aren't correct and we have strong suspicion that it's coaching and not due to incorrect player execution.  Since firing coaches is undesirable, bringing in additional coaches to analyze what we are doing on offense and defense is a reasonable solution.  They can point out everything from schematic issues down to problems in the minutiae of play execution.  Not every coach can know everything.  As an example, Austin may not have played center and doesn't know some simple tricks of the trade.  Maybe the extra coach does or he knows someone that does or he can be tasked with finding someone that has the knowledge.  Even if our coaches know why certain things aren't working the additional coaches could provide advise on different techniques to teach the players and get the plays to work.  I imagine just because a play is in the playbook not every coach is going to know all of the little things that are important for that play to be successful.  If fixing those little things results in plays going 5 yards instead of 4 that's huge.  It could make HB boring if we don't have mysteries to dissect such as why can't we blitz, why can't we run a screen play, why does our punter like the side of his foot.  Although, I think we would all be happier if we didn't have to watch high snaps for half a season.

 
Archy1221 said:
I think after the season, Moose should sit down with Frost and not necessarily demand any coaching changes, but let him know in the best way possible that Coach Frost would benefit greatly from hiring someone who is seasoned in coaching that would be willing to come in and be sort of a second set of eyes coach (not sure of what the title would be, maybe just advisor) who is not tied to and with no loyalty to anyone in the coaching staff.  

This person could look at Roster management, coaching staff, game management decisions, etc...from an outside perspective and i believe give coach Frost some invaluable advice.  

Almost all all of our coaches are pretty young in terms of coaching at their level and could be missing a few things that would be glaring to someone looking at it from the outside in. 

Coach Frost is still the man to be here in my book and should be given 5 total years (barring any unforeseen drastic non football issues) before he starts to get on a hot seat, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t learn from some older wisdom with no dog in the fight to help make/solidly some tough decisions that may have to be made. 
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I worry about a scenario like this because it's how we got Mr. Strain. 

I'd like to see Frost have the kids anonymously write down what the staff does right, what they do wrong, what the staff can do to make the players better, general gripes, etc.  It could be a waste of time or there could be some nuggets in there that the coaches would find useful.    

 
gobiggergoredder said:
Callahan said something interesting on the KFAB show tonight.

When you put Riley’s last class and Frost first class together most are gone or don’t contribute.  He made a comment about how you have to in a sense write of Frosts first class because it was about numbers (they had no time...get best available).

Given the weaknesses on the team (Line of Scrimmage & LBs), it makes sense that after the last three classes they are where they are.
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Absolutely.  You can go back further as Riley's first class was a hodge podge of guys because he, too, got a late start after Pelini was fired.  I believe those guys are seniors now.  The Bo firing along with Riley's short stint and subsequent firing along with Frost's first hodge podge of recruits has been very bad from a recruiting standpoint because of two "half assed" classes.  Throw in guys who left and it's no wonder this team has a talent issue along with a lack of depth.  

 
Is coaching the main issue? Let’s look at our DLine. Frost’s man last year left for the NY Giants (outside linebackers coach spot). At the time I thought that did not bode well for the quality of personnel he was leaving. (Knowing his stock would be dropping with this group?) Frost made what everyone maintains (and continues to maintain) was a great hire in snagging Tuioti from Cal. But has our DLine suddenly turned into world-beaters? No. 
 

If last years coach was still here, some would think that Frost’s giving him his walking papers and hiring someone like Tuioti might be the answer. We can see it isn’t.
 

Similarly, shuffling the coaching deck is not going to automatically result in a better defense. 

 
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Danny Bateman said:
So if Frost decides to give Chin more time it is what it is and I'm not going to be upset. He probably thinks the problem isn't that Chin sucks if that's the case.
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I think what will be telling is, if we look at the defensive side of the ball we have a lot of older kids on that side. So they will graduate this year and then we will have the new talent come in. I believe Year 3 would be a good barometer.

 
cheekygeek said:
Is coaching the main issue? Let’s look at our DLine. Frost’s man last year left for the NY Giants (outside linebackers coach spot). At the time I thought that did not bode well for the quality of personnel he was leaving. (Knowing his stock would be dropping with this group?) Frost made what everyone maintains (and continues to maintain) was a great hire in snagging Tuioti from Cal. But has our DLine suddenly turned into world-beaters? No. 
 

If last years coach was still here, some would think that Frost’s giving him his walking papers and hiring someone like Tuioti might be the answer. We can see it isn’t.
 

Similarly, shuffling the coaching deck is not going to automatically result in a better defense. 
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This is a really good point. In all the coaching turnover we've had over the years I struggle to think of hires that resulted in immediate improvement. A lot of times it seems like things went downhill and that's the major risk you take with a new DC hire. It could get worse.

 
WyoHusker56 said:
This is a really good point. In all the coaching turnover we've had over the years I struggle to think of hires that resulted in immediate improvement. A lot of times it seems like things went downhill and that's the major risk you take with a new DC hire. It could get worse.
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Pelini

 
This isn't Wisconsin...  And from what I have seen out of Moos as the AD is that he hires good coaches and helps get them what they need to do there jobs to the best of there abilities, i.e. resources and facilities.  This is only year 2 and I think Moos will give this staff time  to grow and if there is turnover or changes on the staff right now I feel it would be between the coaches.   I hope we can keep some continuity with the staff and see where it leads us in a few years but that's just me.  

 
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