Nebraska's Michael Rose-Ivey receives racial backlash for anthem protest

[Flood]

I just skimmed through to get caught up on this conversation. I'm not going to say much more because I've enjoyed the debate but there's not a lot of anything to add to this anymore.

One last thing that I will throw in here, and sorry if its already been said but I haven't seen it.

People keep saying that they wish protests weren't so offensive. Then someone says "well that's the point, otherwise no one will listen." So applying some logic, wouldn't I be less likely to agree with the message you are trying to communicate if you start by offending me?

And don't you need the people to agree with your message as the protestor? Just informing people that you want change will not necessarily make it happen.

If you could simply express your message and people listened to you, then you wouldn't need to protest. Part of protesting is simply getting people to pay attention to your message, which most people won't do unless it's something eye-catching or provocative. So protests need to find what they can do to get that attention and get their message out. Anthem protests certainly succeed at getting attention, but as you say, we'll have to wait and see if the message gets out as well.

Are you not paying attention? In this thread a LOT of people are paying attention. They may not change their views but they are now aware that there IS an alternate view. I have been checking Husker fan forums the last couple days. Many people are listening. That IS the point. They may not change their mind right now. But they might, or at least consider the other view. This is the purpose. To get people to realize there ARE other views. It may take time, it probably will. I am ashamed to admit that I, a minority, took a good long time to come around on gay marriage. But it was forums and posts just like this that helped open my mind. Maybe this will open minds too.

An inoffensive protest is an ineffective protest. No one listens or even notices.

 

[GBRHouston]

We went from discussing a protest to talking about people killing cops or being killed by cops.

I think this thread has derailed.

Yup. That was sorta the reason why I decided to stop responding.

um.......

Nice try. I meant stop responding to arguments.

 

[zoogs]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute

^ That's some powerful history. I'd seen the picture before, but never thought twice about the story behind it. Or if I had, I'd forgotten about it until I saw it appear in the OWH.

Here's the OWH article, with words from Ameer and other former Huskers: http://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/chatelain-former-husker-ameer-abdullah-stung-by-backlash-says-he/article_b7ed8fd4-6ac6-5745-85ee-d65eaf5b3682.html

They may not change their views but they are now aware that there IS an alternate view. I have been checking Husker fan forums the last couple days. Many people are listening. That IS the point.

Really well said. I think, like Coach Riley said, we're all different people and we come from very different backgrounds. When something happens, we reach for ways that are familiar to us to respond. We may find, to our surprise, a lot of very different and opposed responses. And so we learn a little about where each other are coming from. I think that's happened, in this case, in no small measure among Nebraska fans. It's to the great credit of many involved

A few examples -- those who reacted to this as a spit in the military's face might have seen the proud servicemen and women rallying around the players. Or the mother of children both adopted and not recounting her stories about how it was only some who'd be asked if their feet were clean before trying shoes on at department stores. I've been in basic agreement since the start and still had my eyes opened, quite a bit.

 

[Red Five]

[No message]

 

[macroboy]

I just skimmed through to get caught up on this conversation. I'm not going to say much more because I've enjoyed the debate but there's not a lot of anything to add to this anymore.

One last thing that I will throw in here, and sorry if its already been said but I haven't seen it.

People keep saying that they wish protests weren't so offensive. Then someone says "well that's the point, otherwise no one will listen." So applying some logic, wouldn't I be less likely to agree with the message you are trying to communicate if you start by offending me?

And don't you need the people to agree with your message as the protestor? Just informing people that you want change will not necessarily make it happen.

I can see how this might be said towards people spitting on the flag, burning it, purposefully desecrating it, or so forth.
Instead we have a very calm, very thoughtfully articulated stance by players who love their country.

At this point, if it's still seen as something that should be offensive to a lot of people, it's fair to ask, "Why?" ... and that, I think, is what has made this the perfect vehicle for a protest. When it comes to saluting our national symbols, we can all agree that doing so with introspection is better than without. These players are doing this, by example.

If that discomfort can transform into "Oh, okay. I see", then that's no small victory for American ideals. The way this has happened, it's seemed quite inspiring and unifying, more so than it is divisive. But of course there will be those who don't agree; there always are.

Okay yes I see you're point, but some people do find it offensive.

If you're coming to my house to try and sell me a gadget, wouldn't it be better to say "hello" instead of sh**ing in my yard?

I'm speaking generally about protests now

They aren't selling you something. They are making you look at something you have been trying to ignore.

It is not about your approval, or whether or not you are offended. It is about acknowledging there is a problem and about frustration and honestly about hurt and anger, at this point.

I've said it before but here it is again. "As a member of the white majority, I wish black people would find a way to protest that makes me more comfortable, when it comes to their system abuse and murder."

 

[RedDenver]

I just skimmed through to get caught up on this conversation. I'm not going to say much more because I've enjoyed the debate but there's not a lot of anything to add to this anymore.

One last thing that I will throw in here, and sorry if its already been said but I haven't seen it.

People keep saying that they wish protests weren't so offensive. Then someone says "well that's the point, otherwise no one will listen." So applying some logic, wouldn't I be less likely to agree with the message you are trying to communicate if you start by offending me?

And don't you need the people to agree with your message as the protestor? Just informing people that you want change will not necessarily make it happen.

If you could simply express your message and people listened to you, then you wouldn't need to protest. Part of protesting is simply getting people to pay attention to your message, which most people won't do unless it's something eye-catching or provocative. So protests need to find what they can do to get that attention and get their message out. Anthem protests certainly succeed at getting attention, but as you say, we'll have to wait and see if the message gets out as well.

Are you not paying attention? In this thread a LOT of people are paying attention. They may not change their views but they are now aware that there IS an alternate view. I have been checking Husker fan forums the last couple days. Many people are listening. That IS the point. They may not change their mind right now. But they might, or at least consider the other view. This is the purpose. To get people to realize there ARE other views. It may take time, it probably will. I am ashamed to admit that I, a minority, took a good long time to come around on gay marriage. But it was forums and posts just like this that helped open my mind. Maybe this will open minds too.

An inoffensive protest is an ineffective protest. No one listens or even notices.

Not sure why you're directing this at me. I'm agreeing with you.

 

[AZHusker30]

When speaking about Native Americans, though, there is a certain real travesty still taking place to this day; I read somewhere that Native Americans cannot buy the land they live on in the reservation. To me, that is just wrong.

No one said this wasn't wrong.
Just a question, is it acceptable for a native American to call a random stranger a "b!^@h" in his first encounter?

Did I call you or someone else a 'b!^@h'? I may have said that about your mother, but just to make an angry point. Still, if so, I apologize profusely and profoundly. I must have been extremely angry. That is quite unusual and I do sincerely apologize. I will try to do better.

Do you have turrets?

Thanks for telling me where you live, you know, just in case i want to come shake your hand.

I did have turrets. But I sold the castle in France and the turrets were sold with it.

I re-read my posts, and I do sincerely apologize. It can be difficult sometimes. Living in Florida now, very few people think I am Native American. Instead of Sioux, they all think I am Mexican or Puerto Rican.

The word you were looking for is Tourette Syndrome. I do not think I have it, but my wife and son might vehemently disagree. They hear enough cussing from me that I wouldn't be surprised. Mostly when that SON OF A b!^@h won't do the DAMN DISHES.

Apologies and thanks.

I hope something good comes of all this.

Flood, you don't have to apologize or keep explaining yourself...I agree with what you are conveying here and I believe the plight of the Native Americans in our country is one of the most over-looked and troubling issues in the history of America. You were the native people here on this land and were brutalized, raped, inflicted with various diseases and killed. And then to top it all off, you were segregated into parcels of land called reservations and everything your people were accustomed to was taken away. It's so incredibly sad and if I was Native, I would have a tough time looking at the American Flag without some contempt or bias. Can you blame everything that Natives are experiencing today on our country's history? YES, you can. For those posters who disagree, read up on your history and not the edited, white-washed versions we see in our schools. This topic started with some black Huskers players protesting our national anthem for racial discrimination and people expressing their outrage for this. Natives have the same sad history. Black people are racially targeted in our country because they were brought over here to be SLAVES, not as equal human beings. And that stigma still sticks in our country and around the world. It's awful, sad, disheartening and parallels the treatment of our Natives. As I have said before in my other post, I am as white as you can be with German ancestors, but I can't disagree more with anyone who blames Native or African Americans for standing up in what they believe in and protesting the hundreds of years of inequality and racial bias. I think it's great that we live in a country where people can voice their desire to be treated equally, regardless of their skin color. Let the quote-hate begin...

 

[knapplc]

Ameer Abdullah questions his reception by Husker Fans

Abdullah’s heart is heavy, but his mind is pretty clear: If he were still wearing a Husker uniform, he would’ve been right next to Rose-Ivey.

“Most likely, yes, I would’ve kneeled,” Abdullah said.

The Detroit Lions running back, who completed his college career in 2014 as Nebraska’s second all-time leading rusher, shares Rose-Ivey’s views of “the social and racial injustice” that flashes into the news cycle every time an unarmed black man is killed by police. He was “really, really shocked” and “stung” by the reaction in Nebraska. It’s one thing to receive threats and condemnations from “Twitter trolls,” Abdullah said. But from elected officials?

Abdullah, who grew up in Alabama, never encountered direct racism in Lincoln. The fan base always treated him like one of its own. But the past few days, he’s questioned his bonds.

“A lot of people smile at your face, they pat you on the back, but when things go down on the national scale, what are these people saying, how are they acting when they’re home alone?” Abdullah said.

Judging by the responses I'm seeing in this thread, that last question is dead on.

Luckily, I think the people who smile at your face but harbor racist thoughts are in the vast minority.

 

[thatguy]

Now I fully support MRI, but this, I didn't like. Ameer and VV tweeting out what they did, is almost as damaging as daub's statements. Ameer basically just paints the entire state as being inflammatory towards the players, which is not remotely true.

I love ameer, but some of his comments on nebraska admin and fans really make him sound like there's a lot of unresolved animosity for the program and its fans. some of it may be warranted, but still. it's like any opportunity he gets, it's like, "Nebraska is just terrible, man".

 

[STL Husker]

Now I fully support MRI, but this, I didn't like. Ameer and VV tweeting out what they did, is almost as damaging as daub's statements. Ameer basically just paints the entire state as being inflammatory towards the players, which is not remotely true.

I love ameer, but some of his comments on nebraska admin and fans really make him sound like there's a lot of unresolved animosity for the program and its fans. some of it may be warranted, but still. it's like any opportunity he gets, it's like, "Nebraska is just terrible, man".

That broad brush is the same one used against muslims and blacks. You are getting a taste of what they deal with every day.

 

[Kiyoat Husker]

That's not my point. Of course everyone doesn't agree. In fact, if you are protesting, you are probably trying to persuade the people who disagree with you, right?

I think you are confusing debate with protest. You can't debate with someone unwilling to engage you. Here is a quote from MLK on the purpose of protest: (I added paragraphs for readability)

You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored.

My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth.

Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.

The purpose of our direct action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue.

 

[junior4949]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute

^ That's some powerful history. I'd seen the picture before, but never thought twice about the story behind it. Or if I had, I'd forgotten about it until I saw it appear in the OWH.

Here's the OWH article, with words from Ameer and other former Huskers: http://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/chatelain-former-husker-ameer-abdullah-stung-by-backlash-says-he/article_b7ed8fd4-6ac6-5745-85ee-d65eaf5b3682.html

They may not change their views but they are now aware that there IS an alternate view. I have been checking Husker fan forums the last couple days. Many people are listening. That IS the point.

Really well said. I think, like Coach Riley said, we're all different people and we come from very different backgrounds. When something happens, we reach for ways that are familiar to us to respond. We may find, to our surprise, a lot of very different and opposed responses. And so we learn a little about where each other are coming from. I think that's happened, in this case, in no small measure among Nebraska fans. It's to the great credit of many involved

A few examples -- those who reacted to this as a spit in the military's face might have seen the proud servicemen and women rallying around the players. Or the mother of children both adopted and not recounting her stories about how it was only some who'd be asked if their feet were clean before trying shoes on at department stores. I've been in basic agreement since the start and still had my eyes opened, quite a bit.

Weren't those two banned from Olympic competition for life?

 

[junior4949]

Ameer Abdullah questions his reception by Husker Fans

Abdullah’s heart is heavy, but his mind is pretty clear: If he were still wearing a Husker uniform, he would’ve been right next to Rose-Ivey.
“Most likely, yes, I would’ve kneeled,” Abdullah said.

The Detroit Lions running back, who completed his college career in 2014 as Nebraska’s second all-time leading rusher, shares Rose-Ivey’s views of “the social and racial injustice” that flashes into the news cycle every time an unarmed black man is killed by police. He was “really, really shocked” and “stung” by the reaction in Nebraska. It’s one thing to receive threats and condemnations from “Twitter trolls,” Abdullah said. But from elected officials?

Abdullah, who grew up in Alabama, never encountered direct racism in Lincoln. The fan base always treated him like one of its own. But the past few days, he’s questioned his bonds.

“A lot of people smile at your face, they pat you on the back, but when things go down on the national scale, what are these people saying, how are they acting when they’re home alone?” Abdullah said.

Judging by the responses I'm seeing in this thread, that last question is dead on.

Luckily, I think the people who smile at your face but harbor racist thoughts are in the vast minority.

I'm not so sure this is true. I read an article today on yahoo written by a black man who confessed to being afraid of black men. In the article, he referred to a study or test where it was determined that about half of the black population and 90% of the white population associate negative things with dark skin.

 

[Kiyoat Husker]

Weren't those two banned from Olympic competition for life?

Yes. But even worse was in store for them at home:

Smith and Carlos were largely ostracized by the US sporting establishment and they were subject to criticism. The Timemagazine on 25 October 1968 wrote: ""Faster, Higher, Stronger" is the motto of the Olympic Games. "Angrier, nastier, uglier" better describes the scene in Mexico City last week."[15][16] Back home, both Smith and Carlos were subject to abuse and they and their families received death threats.

Sound familiar?

 

[macroboy]

Damnit. I am trying to embed a youtube video and am not skilled enough to do so.