Northwestern Takeaways

[RedDenver]

The roster has turned over since Riley, the talent argument falls back on Frost & Co. I agree that Riley did a poor job of recruiting. However, if the talent is lacking, it is up to the coaches to find better players or to coach and develop the talent they have. 

They are but there's only been two full recruiting years and the one where Frost had about a month. That only makes up about half the team, so not really a full roster turnover. It remains a work in progress.

Thankfully Barry & Davis did graduate and have their eligibility expire. The two newcomers (Heinrich & Payne) are improvements over those two. The other six backers remain from last year. Therefore, I credit their development to coaching.

Ok, it just shows that your previous post that we're playing with the same LB's was incorrect, which supports my point that it's mostly talent.

NW does get more out of their players... that is coaching.

Agreed. Do you want to hire Fitzgerald?

Purdue - Yes they have Bell & had Moore but the core of the team is not more talented than any others in the league... again that is coaching. 

Disagree. Purdue has difference makers that other teams don't have. And the boat rower is not a good coach.

 

[hskrpwr13]

......Frost said exactly that in the presser 

I figured I was at least as smart as Frost. Thanks for the confirmation.

Agree with the comments. Theres a fragility within the program that I struggle to identify from watching the games. This has seemingly been in place since the Bo regime. Is it over-rated talent, wrong fit for the talent, staff continuity, or...? My best guess is the talent is over-rated.

 

[Wistrom Disciple]

They are but there's only been two full recruiting years and the one where Frost had about a month. That only makes up about half the team, so not really a full roster turnover. It remains a work in progress.

Ok, it just shows that your previous post that we're playing with the same LB's was incorrect, which supports my point that it's mostly talent.

Agreed. Do you want to hire Fitzgerald?

Disagree. Purdue has difference makers that other teams don't have. And the boat rower is not a good coach.

There are maybe 10-15 guys left from the Riley era. As fans, we have to stop using that as a crutch or excuse. 

I understand you made a point that Heinrich and Payne replaced Barry and Davis. The argument stands... it is not an improvement based solely on talent but on better coaching with the group. Miller, Honas & Reimer are playing much better. Their talent didn't change, their knowledge of the position and scheme did... That is a credit to coaching and development. 

No, Fitzgerald is a good fit where he's at now. He has just done a better job coaching than Frost has to this point. NW has less pure talent than Nebraska but they have found ways to win. 

Yes, Purdue has 2-3 difference makers and their coaches have found ways to utilize their talents and win. This counters Illinois who has 2-3 difference makers that are poorly coached and the team loses. As of now, Nebraska has acted more like Illinois and less like either NW or Purdue, let alone an Ohio State. 

 

[Lawson]

What I find fascinating about this loss against Northwestern was we were beat by a team with a transfer QB from Indiana.To further the intrigue the starting QB at Indiana is leading an undefeated  team with notable wins over Michigan, Penn State and also a win over Rutgers. Perhaps Frost may want to consider thinking outside the box when it comes to his roster, it's worth considering I think. 

I still believe Frost has a chance to turn things around at Nebraska but so far he is getting out coached and out recruited by much of our competition in the Big 10. He as much admitted this in his post game comments after the loss to Northwestern saying he takes the blame for the mistakes and lack of production by his team. I admire his candor and believe he is truly committed to bringing the Huskers back to national prominence but he is finding the job to be harder than he anticipated. 

Go Big Red!

 

[RedDenver]

There are maybe 10-15 guys left from the Riley era. As fans, we have to stop using that as a crutch or excuse. 

I'm not talking about how many players came from which coach or whether it's an excuse. I'm talking about our talent level. There's basically the last two classes and a smattering of other guys. IMO we are just now getting enough talent across the board, and what we have is mostly 1st and 2nd year players. Just the reality of where we are right now.

I understand you made a point that Heinrich and Payne replaced Barry and Davis. The argument stands... it is not an improvement based solely on talent but on better coaching with the group. Miller, Honas & Reimer are playing much better. Their talent didn't change, their knowledge of the position and scheme did... That is a credit to coaching and development. 

I think it's much more about the improved talent than the coaching and development, so we'll just have to disagree. I think Miller or Honas might not still be starters by the end of the season. Reimer very likely to replace one of them IMO.

No, Fitzgerald is a good fit where he's at now. He has just done a better job coaching than Frost has to this point. NW has less pure talent than Nebraska but they have found ways to win. 

I agree. But NW is still very up and down year to year because talent matters.

Yes, Purdue has 2-3 difference makers and their coaches have found ways to utilize their talents and win. This counters Illinois who has 2-3 difference makers that are poorly coached and the team loses. As of now, Nebraska has acted more like Illinois and less like either NW or Purdue, let alone an Ohio State. 

I'd take Purdue's current difference makers every day of the week and twice on Saturday over anyone Illinios has had since we've been in the B1G. And I think we've been closer to Illinois the last 5 years, but right now we're transitioning away from that and more towards Purdue. I think next year we'll finally have the talent and experience to really evaluate the coaching and play calling. (But we're still mediocre at DB talent  and no quick fixes that I see.)

 

[Wistrom Disciple]

I'm not talking about how many players came from which coach or whether it's an excuse. I'm talking about our talent level. There's basically the last two classes and a smattering of other guys. IMO we are just now getting enough talent across the board, and what we have is mostly 1st and 2nd year players. Just the reality of where we are right now.

Ok that's fair but these coaches are the ones who recruited the players to fit their scheme. Lacking talent is a legitimate argument against Ohio State. I cannot say the same for the rest of the conference right now. 

I think it's much more about the improved talent than the coaching and development, so we'll just have to disagree. I think Miller or Honas might not still be starters by the end of the season. Reimer very likely to replace one of them IMO.

The physical talent remained largely unchanged. They didn't grow six inches or become monster weight lifters. 

I agree. But NW is still very up and down year to year because talent matters.

Yes, and they still find ways to beat us or sweat it out. I would be surprised if there were 4-5 guys on their team that have more talent than the players on our team at their positions currently. 

In short, the lack of talent argument falls mostly flat unless comparing to Ohio State. Nebraska has more pure talent on the team than at least 75% of the conference but we have been unable to win because of the intangibles (coaching & discipline). 

 

[Wistrom Disciple]

What I find fascinating about this loss against Northwestern was we were beat by a team with a transfer QB from Indiana.To further the intrigue the starting QB at Indiana is leading an undefeated  team with notable wins over Michigan, Penn State and also a win over Rutgers. Perhaps Frost may want to consider thinking outside the box when it comes to his roster, it's worth considering I think. 

I still believe Frost has a chance to turn things around at Nebraska but so far he is getting out coached and out recruited by much of our competition in the Big 10. He as much admitted this in his post game comments after the loss to Northwestern saying he takes the blame for the mistakes and lack of production by his team. I admire his candor and believe he is truly committed to bringing the Huskers back to national prominence but he is finding the job to be harder than he anticipated. 

Go Big Red!

Could you expand on your thoughts there? I'm curious what kind of ideas you have for the outside the box thinking.

 

[Undone]

I still believe Frost has a chance to turn things around at Nebraska but so far he is getting out coached and out recruited by much of our competition in the Big 10.

There was a good graphic floating around just prior to the Ohio State game using 24/7 Sports' composite player rankings that we rank #4 in the Big 10 on pure talent.

So I would probably have to disagree on out-recruited but absolutely, 100% agree with you on being outcoached.

 

[RedDenver]

Ok that's fair but these coaches are the ones who recruited the players to fit their scheme. Lacking talent is a legitimate argument against Ohio State. I cannot say the same for the rest of the conference right now. 

IMO the Huskers have roughly equal talent to the average B1G team right now, but the Husker talent is almost entirely 1st and 2nd year players while the average B1G team talent are upperclassmen. Huskers still working on getting those new players onto the field while other teams are not.

The physical talent remained largely unchanged. They didn't grow six inches or become monster weight lifters. 

This makes no sense. There are literally different players at LB this year than last year.

Yes, and they still find ways to beat us or sweat it out. I would be surprised if there were 4-5 guys on their team that have more talent than the players on our team at their positions currently. 

And we've still beat them as often as they've beat us. And there's LB's, WR's, DL's, and most of NW's secondary that might be starters on our team right now.

In short, the lack of talent argument falls mostly flat unless comparing to Ohio State. Nebraska has more pure talent on the team than at least 75% of the conference but we have been unable to win because of the intangibles (coaching & discipline). 

I just disagree. Huskers don't yet have more talent than most of the conference.

 

[WyoHusker56]

Four things need to change if Nebraska is going to win any games this year.

1. Our Senior offensive line (and supposed strength of our team) needs to stop committing dumb penalties and our team as a whole needs to play with more discipline. Too good of a schedule to play sloppy.

2. Luke needs to start from here on out and so do the new WR's. Scott had a whole offseason and fall camp to teach the young guys the ropes and so far his best excuse is "They know only part of the playbook". Someone on the team in the WR room needs to take some ownership and lead by example or take the new guys under their wing because the bubble screen should be your #40 option on offense not #1, #2, and #..... aw **** three and out.

3. 2nd half adjustments and playing the game all 4 quarters. Scott is a brilliant guy. He has shown next to no flexibility when the last two quarters are being played and a COMBINED 3 POINTS over two games in the second halves of our games show it.

4. Find the endzone. Where the hell are the explosive plays that SF's offenses are known for? So far we are on pace to have the worst red zone offense of Scotts career.

I agree with you on all points, but for context on the second one those young receivers outside of Brown missed practice and so he didn't have the off season or fall camp to teach them as they weren't there. He made reference today to them being explosive and they are trying to fast track them now. So, hopefully we see more and more of those guys soon.

 

[Canadian Fan]

I'd just like to flag that there's a difference between "being mentally fragile" and "players not being confident in executing the plays that have been called."  In another thread I proposed that one of the biggest reasons for the years of repeated OL penalties is that the OL lack faith/trust in their ability to execute the blocks required for certain of Coach Frost's plays.  They get nervous at those plays, and they jump.  Over and over and over again.  In my opinion, one thing Coach Frost has failed at dramatically is identifying which plays are within the comfort zones of his offensive players and building plays to suit.  In contrast, he seems fixated on attempting to use "his system" and "his plays" and then appears shocked when his players can't actually run them well, on a consistent basis.  Step one for me after going 0-2 shouldn't be deep introspection on the part of the HC in isolation.  It should be getting his offensive position coaches to talk to their players (starting with the OL and QB's) and build a new call sheet based on their preferences.  Step two is them giving the QB audible options for their favourite plays so if they step up to the line and see a play they know they can nail, they have the freedom to make that switch.

 

[Wistrom Disciple]

IMO the Huskers have roughly equal talent to the average B1G team right now, but the Husker talent is almost entirely 1st and 2nd year players while the average B1G team talent are upperclassmen. Huskers still working on getting those new players onto the field while other teams are not.

I will simply have to disagree. Lack of talent and experience are not why we lost to Northwestern last week. 

This makes no sense. There are literally different players at LB this year than last year.

We have two new linebackers (Payne & Heinrich) who rotate in. Miller & Honas were starters last year and Nelson, JoJo and Tannor played a lot. Those players have the same "talent" as they had last year. They have developed in their understanding of the defense and scheme. Therefore, the improvement is not a physical talent but a mental development that stems from coaching.

And we've still beat them as often as they've beat us. And there's LB's, WR's, DL's, and most of NW's secondary that might be starters on our team right now.

Did we watch the same game? Their linebackers might be the one group that is better than ours. You would take their entire defense over ours though? Their defense... who allowed us 28 first downs and 442 yards with our offense? 

 

[runningblind]

I think we've been closer to Illinois the last 5 years, but right now we're transitioning away from that and more towards Purdue.

 

[RedDenver]

I will simply have to disagree. Lack of talent and experience are not why we lost to Northwestern last week. 

We have two new linebackers (Payne & Heinrich) who rotate in. Miller & Honas were starters last year and Nelson, JoJo and Tannor played a lot. Those players have the same "talent" as they had last year. They have developed in their understanding of the defense and scheme. Therefore, the improvement is not a physical talent but a mental development that stems from coaching.

Miller was a starter at ILB and Honas was his backup. Barry was the other starter at ILB. Tannor was a starter at OLB. Davis was the other starter at OLB with JoJo backing him up. Reimer played a bit (I think he was out with an injury quite a lot) as 2nd or 3rd string behind Barry,  and Payne and Heinrich didn't play at all. That's a lot of different players getting time this season than last, which is what I mean by our talent is young and still trying to get on the field.

Did we watch the same game? Their linebackers might be the one group that is better than ours. You would take their entire defense over ours though? Their defense... who allowed us 28 first downs and 442 yards with our offense? 

Not their entire defense but one or two LB, a DL, and at least 2 DB's maybe more. And I think our defense is pretty good, but I don't think we have a major lead over them in talent (at least among the starters). Yes, our offense did pretty well moving the ball even against their D but failed to score.

 

[RedDenver]

I mean, you watched us the last 5 years, right? I learned to control my gag reflex during Riley's last season.