Offensive Line and Cotten's future

[NUinID]

I guess my big question to all you guys who know what you want a dominate line looks like please explain what you want to see. I want numbers. I want quantifable things. Not better execusion etc. Tell me IYO what the NU O-line should look like by the numbers.

Consider this more a set of goals rather than what actually has to happen each game: one or more pancake blocks each play, over 200 yards rushing per game, and no sacks given up in the first three seconds of the play.

But the offensive line isn't like the running back - you can't judge everything based on numbers. Most importantly, you want guys winning their one-on-one match ups, meaning you need guys using their technique, strength, and speed to overcome the opponent. If everybody does their job, then the whole unit looks good. The problem is that not everybody does their job on a given play, and sometimes in the most painfully obvious ways.

I beleive NU averaged over 200 yards a game last year. As far as sacks in the first 3 seconds of a play last year, how many did we have last year. I bet it is not some astronomical number like you might think, maybe 5 for the whole year.

As far as your second paragraph is concerned you are absolutely correct. If 4-5 do things correctly and one doesn't, it breaks down. I guess that is my point. O-line is the most complicated thing that you can do and the most difficult position to coach. I know I have done it before at the HS level. Nebraska had great O-lines becuase of the system that was in place to build great lines for 30+ years a linemen came into the system and either played freshman ball and then RS or like now RS as a first year guy. He then played in mop up for a year and then was maybe a backup for a year and then he might start for 2 years. He may only start for 1 year. That is the way it was. Rarely you had some really great players who started as Sophs., but most didn't start until they were RS jrs.

That system was completely broke when Milt and DY retired and Callahan came into the system. That system IMO is slowly being built again. Look all the starters are going to be Jrs and Srs. this year. I think you will see a better line this year, bucause of the way the system is starting to work again.

 

[The Dude]

So you think Uncle Milt was incompetent too? Go ahead and google "Dan Young" and see what you find.

Dan Young GM Center - Car Dealership

http://danyounggm.com/

-or-

Dan Young - Colorado plein-air landscape painter.

http://www.danyoungstudio.com/

Which Dan Young am I looking for?

Normally I like what you post, but this time! Don't be stupid.

Edit: maybe I didn't get the joke.

bshirt wrote "Go ahead and google "Dan Young" and see what you find."

That's what I found.

(the joke is I was being exceedingly literal and sarcastic to an exceedingly condescending and sarcastic comment)

 

[Enhance]

I beleive NU averaged over 200 yards a game last year. As far as sacks in the first 3 seconds of a play last year, how many did we have last year. I bet it is not some astronomical number like you might think, maybe 5 for the whole year.

As far as your second paragraph is concerned you are absolutely correct. If 4-5 do things correctly and one doesn't, it breaks down. I guess that is my point. O-line is the most complicated thing that you can do and the most difficult position to coach. I know I have done it before at the HS level. Nebraska had great O-lines becuase of the system that was in place to build great lines for 30+ years a linemen came into the system and either played freshman ball and then RS or like now RS as a first year guy. He then played in mop up for a year and then was maybe a backup for a year and then he might start for 2 years. He may only start for 1 year. That is the way it was. Rarely you had some really great players who started as Sophs., but most didn't start until they were RS jrs.

That system was completely broke when Milt and DY retired and Callahan came into the system. That system IMO is slowly being built again. Look all the starters are going to be Jrs and Srs. this year. I think you will see a better line this year, bucause of the way the system is starting to work again.

Nebraska might have averaged 200 yards a game, but the losses are far more telling of the situation. 159 yards against Wisconsin, 207 vs. Northwestern (should have bee more), 138 against Michigan, 137 against South Carolina, and 88 against Ohio State in the first three quarters. Although Ohio State wasn't a loss, I believe we can all safely say that it would have been were it not for Braxton Miller's injury. For an offense that predicates itself on the run, these are unacceptable numbers. The only good defense Nebraska played well against last year was Michigan State, and even then, we amassed 190 rushing yards. Again, if we are going to base ourselves on the run and only have Martinez throw 20-25 times a game, these numbers are bad.

I completely agree with you as to why Nebraska had great lines, but we shouldn't require a tenured system to have good offensive lines, wouldn't you agree? We should have good offensive lines every year with great offensive lines every couple. We haven't had great here in a decade, and we've only played good games, never seasons. Last year's offensive line, overall, was average to above average. I think they played better than the 2009 and 2010 lines, but there's a lot of room for improvement, and my biggest worry is that it will take Cotton four years just to have one good line (if we have a good line this year, it will be year five), and then three-to-four years of mediocrity. That's unacceptable for what our goals as a program are.

The lack of offensive linemen we've sent in the draft the last four years is also very telling.

 

[junior4949]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Cotton the OC in 2003 rather than the OL coach? Why are OL performance from 2003 being used for or against Cotton now as the OL coach?

 

[Blackshirt316]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Cotton the OC in 2003 rather than the OL coach? Why are OL performance from 2003 being used for or against Cotton now as the OL coach?

Cotton was both the OC and OL coach in 2003.

 

[caveman99]

I beleive NU averaged over 200 yards a game last year. As far as sacks in the first 3 seconds of a play last year, how many did we have last year. I bet it is not some astronomical number like you might think, maybe 5 for the whole year.

As far as your second paragraph is concerned you are absolutely correct. If 4-5 do things correctly and one doesn't, it breaks down. I guess that is my point. O-line is the most complicated thing that you can do and the most difficult position to coach. I know I have done it before at the HS level. Nebraska had great O-lines becuase of the system that was in place to build great lines for 30+ years a linemen came into the system and either played freshman ball and then RS or like now RS as a first year guy. He then played in mop up for a year and then was maybe a backup for a year and then he might start for 2 years. He may only start for 1 year. That is the way it was. Rarely you had some really great players who started as Sophs., but most didn't start until they were RS jrs.

That system was completely broke when Milt and DY retired and Callahan came into the system. That system IMO is slowly being built again. Look all the starters are going to be Jrs and Srs. this year. I think you will see a better line this year, bucause of the way the system is starting to work again.

Nebraska might have averaged 200 yards a game, but the losses are far more telling of the situation. 159 yards against Wisconsin, 207 vs. Northwestern (should have bee more), 138 against Michigan, 137 against South Carolina, and 88 against Ohio State in the first three quarters. Although Ohio State wasn't a loss, I believe we can all safely say that it would have been were it not for Braxton Miller's injury. For an offense that predicates itself on the run, these are unacceptable numbers. The only good defense Nebraska played well against last year was Michigan State, and even then, we amassed 190 rushing yards. Again, if we are going to base ourselves on the run and only have Martinez throw 20-25 times a game, these numbers are bad.

I completely agree with you as to why Nebraska had great lines, but we shouldn't require a tenured system to have good offensive lines, wouldn't you agree? We should have good offensive lines every year with great offensive lines every couple. We haven't had great here in a decade, and we've only played good games, never seasons. Last year's offensive line, overall, was average to above average. I think they played better than the 2009 and 2010 lines, but there's a lot of room for improvement, and my biggest worry is that it will take Cotton four years just to have one good line (if we have a good line this year, it will be year five), and then three-to-four years of mediocrity. That's unacceptable for what our goals as a program are.

The lack of offensive linemen we've sent in the draft the last four years is also very telling.

I will politely disagree with your assessment of the OSU win. Braxton got hurt on a play that made it 3rd and long, good chance that they still have to punt. NU's subsequent TD made it a 7 point game with time left in the 3rd Quarter and the Husker O rolling having just made Swiss cheese of the OSU D on 2 straight drives.

Anyway about recent Husker linemen in the NFL, Ricky Henry, DJ Jones, Marcel Jones, Keith Williams, Matt Slauson, Lydon Murtha, and Yoshi Hardrick all made it to the NFL in the last 4 years.

 

[Enhance]

I will politely disagree with your assessment of the OSU win. Braxton got hurt on a play that made it 3rd and long, good chance that they still have to punt. NU's subsequent TD made it a 7 point game with time left in the 3rd Quarter and the Husker O rolling having just made Swiss cheese of the OSU D on 2 straight drives.

Anyway about recent Husker linemen in the NFL, Ricky Henry, DJ Jones, Marcel Jones, Keith Williams, Matt Slauson, Lydon Murtha, and Yoshi Hardrick all made it to the NFL in the last 4 years.

Go look at the drive summaries. Before Miller's injury, including the first half, OSU had three touchdowns, two field goals and two punts. We forced a fumble and scored a touchdown. The next drive, Miller is injured. OSU's subsequent drives (including the one where Miller was injured) were four punts and an interception. The only reason that play became a third and long was because Miller hurt himself on his own accord - he was not hurt by a tackle, he was hurt because he took a wrong step and injured his ankle, thus resulting in being hit in the backfield. Who knows what would have happened had he not gone down?

After Miller's injury, we had three touchdowns and one punt. If Miller does not get injured, all the evidence suggests two things - first, Nebraska is not able to stop OSU from scoring more points, and second, OSU's execution faltered because they lost their starter.

And I should have adjusted my original statement about linemen to a question - how many linemen, in the last four years, were drafted in the third round or higher?

 

[caveman99]

I will politely disagree with your assessment of the OSU win. Braxton got hurt on a play that made it 3rd and long, good chance that they still have to punt. NU's subsequent TD made it a 7 point game with time left in the 3rd Quarter and the Husker O rolling having just made Swiss cheese of the OSU D on 2 straight drives.

Anyway about recent Husker linemen in the NFL, Ricky Henry, DJ Jones, Marcel Jones, Keith Williams, Matt Slauson, Lydon Murtha, and Yoshi Hardrick all made it to the NFL in the last 4 years.

Go look at the drive summaries. Before Miller's injury, including the first half, OSU had three touchdowns, two field goals and two punts. We forced a fumble and scored a touchdown. The next drive, Miller is injured. OSU's subsequent drives (including the one where Miller was injured) were four punts and an interception. The only reason that play became a third and long was because Miller hurt himself on his own accord - he was not hurt by a tackle, he was hurt because he took a wrong step and injured his ankle, thus resulting in being hit in the backfield. Who knows what would have happened had he not gone down?

After Miller's injury, we had three touchdowns and one punt. If Miller does not get injured, all the evidence suggests two things - first, Nebraska is not able to stop OSU from scoring more points, and second, OSU's execution faltered because they lost their starter.

And I should have adjusted my original statement about linemen to a question - how many linemen, in the last four years, were drafted in the third round or higher?

High draft picks on the OL have been fewer than in the 90's for sure, but the fact that there are that many making a living in the NFL in the days of 53 man rosters tells me something is being done right. I am not a huge fan of Barney, I think it is a prove it year frankly, but there has been an increase in OL going to the NFL under Barney.

Regards to the OSU game, the play that BM goes down he has a couple of defenders there and Fisher has him dead to rights. It would have been 3rd and long regardless and to say otherwise is disingenuous.

OSU wasn't clicking on O from the 2nd quarter on. They had 2 punts and a FG in the 2nd quarter. They got a TD on the opening drive of the 3rd and then went stagnant with a fumble and a punt on the series BM went out and a punt after. NU did have a punt on the possession after making it a 7 point game right after BM went out, but they moved the ball at will in the 4th scoring 2 TDs, holding the ball for 10:16, and running off the last 4 minutes of the game where they could've scored a 3rd TD if they really wanted. BM wouldn't have had much of a chance to score especially considering he wasn't moving the ball like he did in the 1st QTR.

---edit----

I realize that OSU did get a TD early in the 2nd QTR so my recap was off above. That drive finished with over 12 min remaining in the QTR. After that point the Blackshirts started to figure things out.

 

[Enhance]

High draft picks on the OL have been fewer than in the 90's for sure, but the fact that there are that many making a living in the NFL in the days of 53 man rosters tells me something is being done right. I am not a huge fan of Barney, I think it is a prove it year frankly, but there has been an increase in OL going to the NFL under Barney.

Regards to the OSU game, the play that BM goes down he has a couple of defenders there and Fisher has him dead to rights. It would have been 3rd and long regardless and to say otherwise is disingenuous.

OSU wasn't clicking on O from the 2nd quarter on. They had 2 punts and a FG in the 2nd quarter. They got a TD on the opening drive of the 3rd and then went stagnant with a fumble and a punt on the series BM went out and a punt after. NU did have a punt on the possession after making it a 7 point game right after BM went out, but they moved the ball at will in the 4th scoring 2 TDs, holding the ball for 10:16, and running off the last 4 minutes of the game where they could've scored a 3rd TD if they really wanted. BM wouldn't have had much of a chance to score especially considering he wasn't moving the ball like he did in the 1st QTR.

---edit----

I realize that OSU did get a TD early in the 2nd QTR so my recap was off above. That drive finished with over 12 min remaining in the QTR. After that point the Blackshirts started to figure things out.

Miller had been making our defense look like little girls all game. He had 10 carries for 91 yards aka a 9.1 YPC average. They scored two touchdowns and a field goal from the second quarter into third. You see the fumble as our defense starting to figure things out - I see Miller's injury and a Herculean play by David as the reason we were able to come back. I see very little reason to suggest a Nebraska victory had Miller not been injured. Their offense still looked good in the third quarter before he was hurt. They're not going to score every possession, but they were still doing well. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

The draft is a strong indicator of how good your players are in conjunction with what an NFL team needs. Having had no high round draft picks off the line is very significant. Every other top program in the country sends offensive linemen in the first three rounds consistently, and the undeniable truth is that we don't. Until this is remedied we will continue to be mediocre.

I don't want to place the draft as an end-all-be-all to the significance of your players, but when the NFL is picking up handfuls of other guys before they get to yours, that says something.

 

[Blackshirt316]

I will politely disagree with your assessment of the OSU win. Braxton got hurt on a play that made it 3rd and long, good chance that they still have to punt. NU's subsequent TD made it a 7 point game with time left in the 3rd Quarter and the Husker O rolling having just made Swiss cheese of the OSU D on 2 straight drives.

Anyway about recent Husker linemen in the NFL, Ricky Henry, DJ Jones, Marcel Jones, Keith Williams, Matt Slauson, Lydon Murtha, and Yoshi Hardrick all made it to the NFL in the last 4 years.

Go look at the drive summaries. Before Miller's injury, including the first half, OSU had three touchdowns, two field goals and two punts. We forced a fumble and scored a touchdown. The next drive, Miller is injured. OSU's subsequent drives (including the one where Miller was injured) were four punts and an interception. The only reason that play became a third and long was because Miller hurt himself on his own accord - he was not hurt by a tackle, he was hurt because he took a wrong step and injured his ankle, thus resulting in being hit in the backfield. Who knows what would have happened had he not gone down?

After Miller's injury, we had three touchdowns and one punt. If Miller does not get injured, all the evidence suggests two things - first, Nebraska is not able to stop OSU from scoring more points, and second, OSU's execution faltered because they lost their starter.

And I should have adjusted my original statement about linemen to a question - how many linemen, in the last four years, were drafted in the third round or higher?

Did we figure out Miller, no. But we absolutely figured out their defense and started shredding it.

Miller got hurt when he ran into Sean Fisher trying to make a cut to the outside. It was close to call whether he gets hurt or not without Fisher being there but there's little doubt Fisher would have made the tackle wether Miller got hurt on the play or not. With the following score it was a 7 point game with a full quarter to play.

We scored 2 TDs in that 4th quarter and could easily have scored a third, they burned their last timeout of the game and then after one Rex run we had the ball on their 17 yard line with a little over a minute to go and we just took 3 knees to end it (heck that was even when went total ball control, if needed it's possible we could have found a way to put up even more). Do we shut them down completely if Miller is healthy? No, but could we have stopped them from scoring on 2 of their last 4 possesions in the 4th quarter? Considering they only scored once in the 3rd quarter and Miller played all but about 1:45 seconds of it, yes. I think we could have.

 

[T_O_Bull]

I guess my big question to all you guys who know what you want a dominate line looks like please explain what you want to see. I want numbers. I want quantifable things. Not better execusion etc. Tell me IYO what the NU O-line should look like by the numbers.

Take a look at the '94/'95 OL's. That's what we want.

T_O_B

 

[BigRedBuster]

I guess my big question to all you guys who know what you want a dominate line looks like please explain what you want to see. I want numbers. I want quantifable things. Not better execusion etc. Tell me IYO what the NU O-line should look like by the numbers.

Take a look at the '94/'95 OL's. That's what we want.

T_O_B

As long as you understand that is like dating the hottest friggen super model in the 90s and then expecting every other girl you date to be just as hot. It's possible, but you will pass up a lot of good girls while you're striving for that perfect woman.

We could have some really good years and not have OLine's as dominating as the 94/95 O lines. That will always be the goal. But, if you aren't happy until that happens they you are going to miss some really fun football.

 

[NUinID]

I beleive NU averaged over 200 yards a game last year. As far as sacks in the first 3 seconds of a play last year, how many did we have last year. I bet it is not some astronomical number like you might think, maybe 5 for the whole year.

As far as your second paragraph is concerned you are absolutely correct. If 4-5 do things correctly and one doesn't, it breaks down. I guess that is my point. O-line is the most complicated thing that you can do and the most difficult position to coach. I know I have done it before at the HS level. Nebraska had great O-lines becuase of the system that was in place to build great lines for 30+ years a linemen came into the system and either played freshman ball and then RS or like now RS as a first year guy. He then played in mop up for a year and then was maybe a backup for a year and then he might start for 2 years. He may only start for 1 year. That is the way it was. Rarely you had some really great players who started as Sophs., but most didn't start until they were RS jrs.

That system was completely broke when Milt and DY retired and Callahan came into the system. That system IMO is slowly being built again. Look all the starters are going to be Jrs and Srs. this year. I think you will see a better line this year, bucause of the way the system is starting to work again.

Nebraska might have averaged 200 yards a game, but the losses are far more telling of the situation. 159 yards against Wisconsin, 207 vs. Northwestern (should have bee more), 138 against Michigan, 137 against South Carolina, and 88 against Ohio State in the first three quarters. Although Ohio State wasn't a loss, I believe we can all safely say that it would have been were it not for Braxton Miller's injury. For an offense that predicates itself on the run, these are unacceptable numbers. The only good defense Nebraska played well against last year was Michigan State, and even then, we amassed 190 rushing yards. Again, if we are going to base ourselves on the run and only have Martinez throw 20-25 times a game, these numbers are bad.

I completely agree with you as to why Nebraska had great lines, but we shouldn't require a tenured system to have good offensive lines, wouldn't you agree? We should have good offensive lines every year with great offensive lines every couple. We haven't had great here in a decade, and we've only played good games, never seasons. Last year's offensive line, overall, was average to above average. I think they played better than the 2009 and 2010 lines, but there's a lot of room for improvement, and my biggest worry is that it will take Cotton four years just to have one good line (if we have a good line this year, it will be year five), and then three-to-four years of mediocrity. That's unacceptable for what our goals as a program are.

The lack of offensive linemen we've sent in the draft the last four years is also very telling.

See now you are changing your tune. NU did average 200+ yards a game, but now it is not enough. Just say it, you want NU to average 350 a game and get 200 against Meechicken, Sparty et.al. So what if NU had 88 against OSU up till the 4th quarter, that is called wearing an opponent down, or was that becuase Miller hurt his ankle? That sounds a lot like the old pipelines of the 80's and 90's. chuckleshuffle . Just being a smart ars. Sometimes it does take a system a while to get going. Do you think Wisky just all of a sudden had great O-lines? Alverez did pattern his team after NU after all. There pipeline has 20 years of a system going right now.

As far as the NFL goes. NU having a lot of guys in the O-line playing in the NFL is a rather recent event. The 80's and early 90's were pretty slim for NFL linemen. But they O-lines were good. I guess I think the O-line is pretty good. The only line in the big 10 that I think is better is Wisky, the rest I think we are on par with or better.

 

[Blackshirt316]

I guess my big question to all you guys who know what you want a dominate line looks like please explain what you want to see. I want numbers. I want quantifable things. Not better execusion etc. Tell me IYO what the NU O-line should look like by the numbers.

Take a look at the '94/'95 OL's. That's what we want.

T_O_B

As long as you understand that is like dating the hottest friggen super model in the 90s and then expecting every other girl you date to be just as hot. It's possible, but you will pass up a lot of good girls while you're striving for that perfect woman.

We could have some really good years and not have OLine's as dominating as the 94/95 O lines. That will always be the goal. But, if you aren't happy until that happens they you are going to miss some really fun football.

I'd be ok with our 80's lines.

 

[bshirt]

I guess my big question to all you guys who know what you want a dominate line looks like please explain what you want to see. I want numbers. I want quantifable things. Not better execusion etc. Tell me IYO what the NU O-line should look like by the numbers.

Take a look at the '94/'95 OL's. That's what we want.

T_O_B

As long as you understand that is like dating the hottest friggen super model in the 90s and then expecting every other girl you date to be just as hot. It's possible, but you will pass up a lot of good girls while you're striving for that perfect woman.

We could have some really good years and not have OLine's as dominating as the 94/95 O lines. That will always be the goal. But, if you aren't happy until that happens they you are going to miss some really fun football.

I'd be ok with our 80's lines.

Me too. Or the 70s also.