Offensive line

[The Dude]

I fail to see how Bill C was a great offensive line coach. Zac got hit often, Keller was lost to a season ending injury and Ganz only had success because he was mobile enough to get out of the way. Not the notes of an accomplished front wall.

He's not. He just gets credit as such because of the talent the Jets have on the offensive line (when healthy). When they're not healthy, he doesn't look so hot.

What offensive line looks good when they aren't healthy, though? The Green Bay Packers toughed out a lot of injuries this year and still succeeded, but that is definitely not the case for most teams. Any team with an injured offensive line is going to struggle.

My point was BC is very overrated as a line coach because he was lucky enough to work with such a talented group. He's nothing special as an offensive line coach.

 

[Saunders]

I fail to see how Bill C was a great offensive line coach. Zac got hit often, Keller was lost to a season ending injury and Ganz only had success because he was mobile enough to get out of the way. Not the notes of an accomplished front wall.

He's not. He just gets credit as such because of the talent the Jets have on the offensive line (when healthy). When they're not healthy, he doesn't look so hot.

BS. BC is roundly considered to be one of the best o-line coaches in the business. I don't see how this matters much either way, Wags was the primary guy in charge of the line regardless.

While our lines weren't anything at all special during the BC years, our pass blocking has deteriorated quickly in the last couple years. I would give anything to see tackles forming a decent pocket this year or at least not being repeatedly beaten by simple speed rushes.

Yeah based on one year when they had the most talented line in the NFL. Nobody was singing his praises last year.

You mean when they finished 3rd in rushing? Or in 2009 when they finished 1st?

 

[girlknowsfootball]

I am worried as well...

Look at the talent we have star wise (rivals). I know some do not think that stars mean anything, but historically speaking, stars have proven to be fairly accurate in depicting athleticism out of high school. Looking at our list of guys, most of our guys coming back that have 4 stars or high 3 stars are VERY young. Jermarcus Hardrick, Andrew Rodriguez, and Mike Moudy have only been in the system 1 year, Jeremiah Sirles, Nick Ash, Brent Qvale, Jesse Coffey, and Cole Pensick are all only Sophomores. So we have hardly any high star players that are upperclassmen. We are young, young, young and we have a lot of young talent with minimal experience.

Tyler Moore 5.9 :star :star :star :star

Jermarcus Hardrick 5.9 :star :star :star :star

Ryan Klachko 5.8 :star :star :star :star

Ryne Reeves 5.8 :star :star :star :star

Zach Sterup 5.8 :star :star :star :star

Andrew Rodriguez 5.8 :star :star :star :star

Jeremiah Sirles 5.7 :star :star :star

Mike Moudy 5.7 :star :star :star

Nick Ash 5.7 :star :star :star

Jesse Coffey 5.6 :star :star :star

Givens Mordi Price 5.5 :star :star :star

Marcel Jones 5.5 :star :star :star

Cole Pensick 5.5 :star :star :star

Brent Qvale 5.5 :star :star :star

Brandon Thompson 5.5 :star :star :star

Scott Criss 5.4 :star :star

Brian Thorson 5.2 :star :star

 

[zoogs]

Yup, and some of the lower rated guys - like Thompson and Qvale - have really risen up through the ranks and are highly regarded. Thompson was supposed to be the top backup guard last year, wasn't he? Before injury.

On top of a really good influx of talent over several years, most of whom are still young thanks to redshirt years, we now have some very competent guys trying to mold them into the best OL they can be. Jon Garrison, a technician with OL work by reputation, as one of their coaches. Brendan Stai, a GA whose attitude and experience lends a lot of credibility to the players, IMO. I think he wants badly to help whip them into better shape. Milt Tenopir, an OL coaching legend that's been there and done all that.

And Barney's there to provide the illusion of less shakeup, which I guess is also a positive!

By the way, BC is respected throughout the coaching ranks in the NFL as one of the best in the business. If you're saying he is overrated, then all those NFL coaches must be wrong to look to him as a standard for OL technique.

 

[The Dude]

I fail to see how Bill C was a great offensive line coach. Zac got hit often, Keller was lost to a season ending injury and Ganz only had success because he was mobile enough to get out of the way. Not the notes of an accomplished front wall.

He's not. He just gets credit as such because of the talent the Jets have on the offensive line (when healthy). When they're not healthy, he doesn't look so hot.

BS. BC is roundly considered to be one of the best o-line coaches in the business. I don't see how this matters much either way, Wags was the primary guy in charge of the line regardless.

While our lines weren't anything at all special during the BC years, our pass blocking has deteriorated quickly in the last couple years. I would give anything to see tackles forming a decent pocket this year or at least not being repeatedly beaten by simple speed rushes.

Yeah based on one year when they had the most talented line in the NFL. Nobody was singing his praises last year.

You mean when they finished 3rd in rushing? Or in 2009 when they finished 1st?

I think you meant 4th. And the only team who ran the ball more than the Jets were the Chiefs, the team who lead the league in rushing. Just because they run the ball more than most teams doesn't mean BC is a great line coach. Just because the Chiefs put up all those yards doesn't mean they have a great line coach.

Either way I think I've sidetracked this topic enough. If you think he's a great line coach, that's cool. I just don't buy it.

 

[skersfan]

BC is a very good line coach, and has been respected for many years prior to his Nebraska days and very much so after he left here.

His problem has always been loyalty. Had he let Cosgrove go he might still be here.

Just because you hate him and what he did to the program, does not make him a bad pro coach. He was in over his head here, way more difficult to run a whole college program than a pro gig. Not having any of the management problems, has made him a great guy to be around. He is well liked by the players and the staff and is respected by most NFL head coaches.

Time to let the hate go and move on. He tried his best, not good enough for Nebraska, but he seems to be doing a great job for the Jets. Personally I like the man, he is just not college head coach material.

 

[suh_fan93]

I am worried as well...

Look at the talent we have star wise (rivals). I know some do not think that stars mean anything, but historically speaking, stars have proven to be fairly accurate in depicting athleticism out of high school. Looking at our list of guys, most of our guys coming back that have 4 stars or high 3 stars are VERY young. Jermarcus Hardrick, Andrew Rodriguez, and Mike Moudy have only been in the system 1 year, Jeremiah Sirles, Nick Ash, Brent Qvale, Jesse Coffey, and Cole Pensick are all only Sophomores. So we have hardly any high star players that are upperclassmen. We are young, young, young and we have a lot of young talent with minimal experience.

Tyler Moore 5.9 :star :star :star :star

Jermarcus Hardrick 5.9 :star :star :star :star

Ryan Klachko 5.8 :star :star :star :star

Ryne Reeves 5.8 :star :star :star :star

Zach Sterup 5.8 :star :star :star :star

Andrew Rodriguez 5.8 :star :star :star :star

Jeremiah Sirles 5.7 :star :star :star

Mike Moudy 5.7 :star :star :star

Nick Ash 5.7 :star :star :star

Jesse Coffey 5.6 :star :star :star

Givens Mordi Price 5.5 :star :star :star

Marcel Jones 5.5 :star :star :star

Cole Pensick 5.5 :star :star :star

Brent Qvale 5.5 :star :star :star

Brandon Thompson 5.5 :star :star :star

Scott Criss 5.4 :star :star

Brian Thorson 5.2 :star :star

Honestly I can't say I'm worried. I think adding 2 additional ex offensive lineman to our staff is going to be huge and the best part is all of these young guys are very moldable. You're always going to have your ebb and flows due to graduation. Having to start over with the cupboard almost bare in terms of seniors or experience but the cool thing is this is where the next line of potential stars can and will evolve.

 

[Hercules]

I'm not too worried about the offensive line right now. In fact, I'm optimistic. I think people may be underestimating how big those staff changes might be. Below are some comments from Carl Pelini...

"Let me put it this way," he said. "I believe right now, with the staff we have in place, we have a culture that pervades the entire team. There's no split. Our team is unified. What Tim (Beck) is going to bring to that side of the ball is a demand for perfection. Obviously, it's hard to achieve perfection, but you can still demand it. I'm excited about eliminating mistakes, stupid penalties and turnovers."
Pelini emphasized the need for solid fundamentals.

"That's something we always try to do on the defensive side. Before we do anything else, we try to make sure we're good tacklers, good with our hands and stay low -- things you learn in youth football. I think fundamentals can get lost in an offense. You can't stay multiple and forget the basics of the game."

Life in the Red

 

[The Dude]

Huh I thought Sirles and Qvale were rated higher than that. Lots of young talent on that line, glad Pelini is making a push to develop that group. Could be a strength in the next few years. This year could be rough though.

 

[Hunter94]

it will take time, but unlike last season, we need to see better play as the season moves on, finishing like we did last season would not be acceptable this time around! <_<

steady improvement is the key.....

 

[girlknowsfootball]

Precisely! We will have 9 guys this year who are either 4 stars or high 3 stars... that's good depth. Now half of them will be true freshmen and the other half will be RFr or Sophomores... so yes we are indeed young. But the good thing is that for the first time in 4 years we really have some depth at OLine. We have size, speed, well coached, well developed high school players coming in, and some guys who were under the radar coming out of high school stepping up after a year or two in the system.

I don't think we can fully blame Barney Cotton for last year. If you look at the lack of talent and lack of high rated players he had, he actually did a pretty good job. The problem was that we lost guys when Callahan got the boot and we failed to recruit high profile guys for the past few years to fill that void. We neglected the offensive line and some other offensive positions in order to focus in getting a solid defense in line first. The staff focused a lot of their recruiting efforts on building depth on the defensive side of the ball... and now we see them really going after trying to get the offensive players in the system who can help build that side of the ball up.

Here's my take... correct or incorrect... take it for what its worth.

Pelini comes on staff in 2008 and finds a neglected defense with 0 depth. Pelini looks at the talent he has, teaches them, and focuses recruiting efforts on getting defensive guys into the program. Thus he starts with defense, what he knows. He rebuilds the defense first. He keeps Watson for consistency, wants to worry about one thing at a time, plus our offense had been decent at the time. Pelini spends 3 years getting everything in line as needed for the defense. That is now complete. The system is installed fully, guys know it, there is depth. After his 3rd season he looked back and saw that there was a consistency he didn't like... 4 loss seasons, so he looks for what area of his team is not improving... Offense. He takes care of the situation by letting 2 coaches go and moving the other coaches around. He uses the offseason to secure an incoming class full of offensive talent, he begins by building depth in the offense. Now Nebraska is going to start working with the offense like they have the defense the past 3 years. This begins with emphasis... bring in an extra 2 guys to help with offensive line, give Carl full reigns of the defense as Bo now works more with offense. Get QB depth that consists of similar looking dual threat foot speed guys. Bring in lots of offensive line talent. Bring more speed to the WR position... who cares if they're 175, if they can run no one will catch them. Simplify things, create routes where several things can happen off the same run... give your QB's 3 or 4 options off each guy. On and On. Bring in multidimensional running backs who can be all purpose guys.

We are still in the transition... but are now moving to phase 2. As fans, we can't expect the offense to be #1 in the country this first year out the gate... we can expect similar results as we did with Pelini's first year working with the defense, great improvement but not complete perfection. The offensive transition will take 2-3 years to fully take shape. With that being said, we can absolutely be a top 10 team... we can absolutely go to a BCS game and play for a Big 10 title. The opportunities are endless... I just don't think we are going to be the best we can be until another year or two. 2013... that first year our new gargantuan 91,000 seat stadium is in place... could be our year to claim redemption. The 2011 class saw it and stood in line to sign with us... the 2012 class is going to be there too. Watch Out.

 

[Bradr]

Precisely! <snip>....<snip> Watch Out.

Your name explains it all. Well said.

 

[NUance]

Precisely! We will have 9 guys this year who are either 4 stars or high 3 stars... that's good depth. Now half of them will be true freshmen and the other half will be RFr or Sophomores... so yes we are indeed young. But the good thing is that for the first time in 4 years we really have some depth at OLine. We have size, speed, well coached, well developed high school players coming in, and some guys who were under the radar coming out of high school stepping up after a year or two in the system.

I don't think we can fully blame Barney Cotton for last year. If you look at the lack of talent and lack of high rated players he had, he actually did a pretty good job. The problem was that we lost guys when Callahan got the boot and we failed to recruit high profile guys for the past few years to fill that void. We neglected the offensive line and some other offensive positions in order to focus in getting a solid defense in line first. The staff focused a lot of their recruiting efforts on building depth on the defensive side of the ball... and now we see them really going after trying to get the offensive players in the system who can help build that side of the ball up.

Here's my take... correct or incorrect... take it for what its worth.

Pelini comes on staff in 2008 and finds a neglected defense with 0 depth. Pelini looks at the talent he has, teaches them, and focuses recruiting efforts on getting defensive guys into the program. Thus he starts with defense, what he knows. He rebuilds the defense first. He keeps Watson for consistency, wants to worry about one thing at a time, plus our offense had been decent at the time. Pelini spends 3 years getting everything in line as needed for the defense. That is now complete. The system is installed fully, guys know it, there is depth. After his 3rd season he looked back and saw that there was a consistency he didn't like... 4 loss seasons, so he looks for what area of his team is not improving... Offense. He takes care of the situation by letting 2 coaches go and moving the other coaches around. He uses the offseason to secure an incoming class full of offensive talent, he begins by building depth in the offense. Now Nebraska is going to start working with the offense like they have the defense the past 3 years. This begins with emphasis... bring in an extra 2 guys to help with offensive line, give Carl full reigns of the defense as Bo now works more with offense. Get QB depth that consists of similar looking dual threat foot speed guys. Bring in lots of offensive line talent. Bring more speed to the WR position... who cares if they're 175, if they can run no one will catch them. Simplify things, create routes where several things can happen off the same run... give your QB's 3 or 4 options off each guy. On and On. Bring in multidimensional running backs who can be all purpose guys.

We are still in the transition... but are now moving to phase 2. As fans, we can't expect the offense to be #1 in the country this first year out the gate... we can expect similar results as we did with Pelini's first year working with the defense, great improvement but not complete perfection. The offensive transition will take 2-3 years to fully take shape. With that being said, we can absolutely be a top 10 team... we can absolutely go to a BCS game and play for a Big 10 title. The opportunities are endless... I just don't think we are going to be the best we can be until another year or two. 2013... that first year our new gargantuan 91,000 seat stadium is in place... could be our year to claim redemption. The 2011 class saw it and stood in line to sign with us... the 2012 class is going to be there too. Watch Out.

Girl, you know football! Good stuff--especially your take after the bolded part. But I'm still a bit skeptical about Barney's performance. I guess this year will be the year thing come together under ole Barney. Not last year like he said.