indianahusker
Special Teams Player
Back at ya, Indy! I hate living in Big 10 (11) country...I get so sick and tired of watching Northwestern vs. Illinois as the Big 10 (11) game of the week!
:cheers
Pedersen
- Thread starter indianahusker
- Start date
:cheers
IndyHusker
Four-Star Recruit
yea northwestern and illinois is a pretty boring game........ gotta ask, does any of what is happening in lincoln seem like what happened in south bend, administrative changes, coaching changes, high expectations and lots of divided fans?
indianahusker
Special Teams Player
It's funny you say that. I have lots of students (I teach hs) who are ND fans who think the same thing...as do I. Interesting, isn't it? Two storied programs that prided themselves on tradition basically forced into modernizing their programs and entering the 21st century!
StuckinChicago
Starter
WHAT CHANGES DID SOLICH MAKE! He didnt recruit any differently, he didnt coach any differently, he didnt change the only thing that really needed changing, the offense, and he rode a weak schedule and luck to a decent season in his last go. Now he is at THE UNIVESITY OF OHIO!, not Ohio State, not even Miami of Ohio or Akron. HE IS AT THE FOURTH BEST SCHOOL IN A STATE!, not the country. Comparing Solich to Devaney is ludicris, and saying that the other 118 division one schools that passed on him, including, Notre Dame, Washington, Florida, Utah, South Carolina, Arizona, and a lot more mid major schools have no idea what they are talking about and that you, in your infinate wisdom, are a better evaluater of coaches than they borders on insanity. I support Solich as far as giving him an office job in the athletic department for the years of service he provided the University with, and venerating him as a great running backs coach under TO, but not as the head coach of one of the most storied programs in the nation. His time was done.
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indianahusker
Special Teams Player
Your arguement is based on opinion and emotion.
My arguement, however is based on fact.
1) Perhaps you think Solich didn't change his offense. Interesting. He did hire a new offensive coordinator, one with a similar offensive philosophy. How is it that you define this as a non-change? Maybe you, an armchair QB (as am I), think the offense was no different. However, just because JLo couldn't throw it in the ocean doesn't mean the offensive philosophy wasn't any different. Barney worked with what he had. IMO the offense would have looked much different with a different QB, one capable of throwing the ball. Look at what he did last year with ISU. And don't tell me Solich was calling the plays unless you have some facts. Fact is, Barney said over and over again Frank wasn't interfering with play-calling.
2) Please provide me some links to say that Solich was turned down by all of those schools. I don't believe I saw anything saying Solich was turned down at any school...however, I may be wrong on that one. But, until you prove me wrong with FACTS that say he was turned down by "118 division one schools that passed on him, including, Notre Dame, Washington, Florida, Utah, South Carolina, Arizona, and a lot more mid major schools", I'll continue to think you ignorant in your rantings.
3) Saying "Comparing Solich to Devaney is ludicris" is another statement not backed up with facts. Fact is, Solich had a better record than Devaney at the time he was fired. Yes, the Bobfather had different circumstances than did Solich, but it is YOUR OPINION that they shouldn't be compared. It is my opinion that they should be. Devaney won his National Championships after being at NU longer than Solich was. Solich wasn't given the chance Devaney was. I think you are ignorant for not stating FACTS to back up your OPINION. Yes, it is my conjecture to think Solich would have done what Devaney did. But when you compare apples to apples, which you don't do, Solich stacks up very nicely to Devaney.
4) You ask "WHAT CHANGES DID SOLICH MAKE!". He fired 7 assistants and hired new ones. If you can explain to me how that isn't a change, I'll take your side.
5) You said the only thing that needed changing was the offense...the defense didn't need changing? Pelini didn't do anything? Not trying to put words in your mouth, but this I do not understand. It seemed to me during the 7-7 year, the defense was pretty bad. It got much better (at least statistically) the next year.
6) You seem to talk out of both sides of your mouth during your arguement. First you say he didn't need to change, then you insinuate he did make changes to everything but the offense. Please clarify.
7) I never said Ohio was a great place to coach. It is obviously a step down. However, they are very excited to have him. I would be too, if I were them...getting a coach with such a great record is a terrific snag for them.
8) As far as recruiting goes, check the records. Many of Solich's classes were ranked in the top 25. Go to www.huskerpedia.com and check the records. Why would he need to change recruiting when he was recruiting top-25 classes? While the class this year was superior to almost the rest of the nation, Solich's classes stacked up very well according to the "experts". Yes, I am happy about this year's class, but until they produce, they are nothing. Many are the top classes that have gone by the wayside.
Come to me with FACTS.
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indianahusker
Special Teams Player
Depends on your interpretation...however, many times don't you have to apply to get a position? Sure, there are many times teams go after a coach, but just because they didn't go after him doesn't mean they turned him down. As a matter of fact, IMO that's quite a stretch.
As a matter of fact, that's like saying a NU turned down Pete Carroll or Bob Stoop(id)s because they didn't go after him. Why wouldn't NU want someone like that?
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I am a Frank fan and have been for close to 40 years. He did the best he could with the situation he was handed. There was no way he could change the program after Tom had just played for a National Championship. We all would have had his head. All assistants were promised retention if Frank took the job. This was forced on Frank.
But Tom knew the recruiting was going down hill I think. I think it is one of the reasons he left. He could see the change in the athletes and their desires. He knew he could no longer recruit kids that could not qualify at other top programs. He knew Texas and Oklahoma were on the rebuild and really had no way to compete with them. The year he won the last National Championship he was still responsible for recruiting. We got one top 100 athlete off of Rivals. Michigan got 17. Why?
Frank was given credit for his classes because Nebraska recruited for their program. At that time it was thought that it worked. Unfortunately it did not. We were given credit for players that were suppose to fit us but not other programs. We road the coat tails of our past performance.
Frank very seldom had a full class. Where as Texas, Oklahoma, USC, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State and many more recruited lights out against us. We were in a downward spiral on talent. When on Rivals lest than 5 out of the top 100 list us as a option every year, it is an indication of how far the program has fallen. Last year is the first year we have been listed by over 20% for as long as I can remember.
As far as Barney ball is concerned, who do you have in mind that could have run the offense. We did not have a QB on the team and had not recurited one for ever that acutally showed up. We took Dukes, who after transfering could not even make 4th string at a lowly ACC cellar dwellar. Recuriting is what killed this program. Keeping your head burried in the ground will not change that.
Other programs had openings during the forced retirement of Frank. Many took lesser known and far less successful coaches. Why would that happen if they felt he could run the program, their job would be to hire the best available. Something tells me they did not harbor your belief in his ability.
Frank is goood man and good position coach. He is not a division 1 top teir coach. I know him and like but he does not have the tools to run a major program. Sorry but I think he knows that too.
He will do okay at Ohio. I hope he turns it around. It is not the preasure filled situation he had at Nebraska.
I do feel if he had been able to fire and hire as he so desired when he took the jobe things might have been different. But that again is an opinion. I wish him luck and will always support him. But he just was not ready for Nebraska.
But Tom knew the recruiting was going down hill I think. I think it is one of the reasons he left. He could see the change in the athletes and their desires. He knew he could no longer recruit kids that could not qualify at other top programs. He knew Texas and Oklahoma were on the rebuild and really had no way to compete with them. The year he won the last National Championship he was still responsible for recruiting. We got one top 100 athlete off of Rivals. Michigan got 17. Why?
Frank was given credit for his classes because Nebraska recruited for their program. At that time it was thought that it worked. Unfortunately it did not. We were given credit for players that were suppose to fit us but not other programs. We road the coat tails of our past performance.
Frank very seldom had a full class. Where as Texas, Oklahoma, USC, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State and many more recruited lights out against us. We were in a downward spiral on talent. When on Rivals lest than 5 out of the top 100 list us as a option every year, it is an indication of how far the program has fallen. Last year is the first year we have been listed by over 20% for as long as I can remember.
As far as Barney ball is concerned, who do you have in mind that could have run the offense. We did not have a QB on the team and had not recurited one for ever that acutally showed up. We took Dukes, who after transfering could not even make 4th string at a lowly ACC cellar dwellar. Recuriting is what killed this program. Keeping your head burried in the ground will not change that.
Other programs had openings during the forced retirement of Frank. Many took lesser known and far less successful coaches. Why would that happen if they felt he could run the program, their job would be to hire the best available. Something tells me they did not harbor your belief in his ability.
Frank is goood man and good position coach. He is not a division 1 top teir coach. I know him and like but he does not have the tools to run a major program. Sorry but I think he knows that too.
He will do okay at Ohio. I hope he turns it around. It is not the preasure filled situation he had at Nebraska.
I do feel if he had been able to fire and hire as he so desired when he took the jobe things might have been different. But that again is an opinion. I wish him luck and will always support him. But he just was not ready for Nebraska.
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DaveH
Team HuskerBoard
The difference there is, how likely were those two to leave their current job to come to Nebraska? They already had a job, Solich didn't. Not exactly the same situation.
The point he is trying to make is that if he was such an outstanding head coach, why weren't high caliber teams offering him a job sooner?
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indianahusker
Special Teams Player
Find me a link that says they were.
I can't find you a link that says they weren't, so neither one of us has much of an arguement, except for arguement's sake. Although I'm going to try to find some good coaches that weren't employed at the time that NU didn't go after (not sure that I can, though).
I do like arguing with you...because you argue based on fact, not on emotion or conjecture. :thumbs
P.S. Sometimes I just argue to argue, as well! (evil laugh)
I can't find you a link that says they weren't, so neither one of us has much of an arguement, except for arguement's sake. Although I'm going to try to find some good coaches that weren't employed at the time that NU didn't go after (not sure that I can, though).
I do like arguing with you...because you argue based on fact, not on emotion or conjecture. :thumbs
P.S. Sometimes I just argue to argue, as well! (evil laugh)
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I'm not sure how this turned into a "Was Frank good or not" thread, but it is interesting to read.
There's no right or wrong when comparing Devaney and Solich, but doing it on numbers alone is somewhat skewed. Devaney took over for a coach that was 15-34-1 and had won no titles, and he resurrected a program. Solich took over for a team that had won 3 titles in 4 years, and in the end Frank was not heading in the right direction. This isn't college FB of the 60's and 70's any longer. The bottom line is winning and losing, but the future is just as important as the present, and the future with Frank was not looking good. Is there any question the talent level was falling drastically? Whether that was due to Frank being a horrible recruiter or players not wanting to play in his system, I don't know. But the talent was lacking and BC has addressed it and addressed it well.
I don't know what schools turned Frank down, but none came knocking on the door either. Why? I don't know. My opinion? His abilities as a HC were nowhere near as good as they needed to be for a top-D1 position.
Getting rid of Frank was a good idea for the program. He did a good job for a few years with recruits TO brought in for TO's offense. But Frank didn't have the expertise and maybe he did make changes too late. Devaney changed the offense, TO changed the offense, and now BC is changing the offense. It appears we are headed in the right direction now, and that's back to the top.
Finally indiana, if you're correct grammer and teach English, learn to spell argument first.
There's no right or wrong when comparing Devaney and Solich, but doing it on numbers alone is somewhat skewed. Devaney took over for a coach that was 15-34-1 and had won no titles, and he resurrected a program. Solich took over for a team that had won 3 titles in 4 years, and in the end Frank was not heading in the right direction. This isn't college FB of the 60's and 70's any longer. The bottom line is winning and losing, but the future is just as important as the present, and the future with Frank was not looking good. Is there any question the talent level was falling drastically? Whether that was due to Frank being a horrible recruiter or players not wanting to play in his system, I don't know. But the talent was lacking and BC has addressed it and addressed it well.
I don't know what schools turned Frank down, but none came knocking on the door either. Why? I don't know. My opinion? His abilities as a HC were nowhere near as good as they needed to be for a top-D1 position.
Getting rid of Frank was a good idea for the program. He did a good job for a few years with recruits TO brought in for TO's offense. But Frank didn't have the expertise and maybe he did make changes too late. Devaney changed the offense, TO changed the offense, and now BC is changing the offense. It appears we are headed in the right direction now, and that's back to the top.
Finally indiana, if you're correct grammer and teach English, learn to spell argument first.
DaveH
Team HuskerBoard
True, we won't really ever know for sure, but IMO, if he was in demand he would have been scooped up sooner. That's all.
As far as not knowing for sure, that goes for a lot of stuff that surrounds the program.
Although skersfan seems to have more inside info than your normal Husker fan. He needs to drum up some more members like that
indianahusker
Special Teams Player
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indianahusker
Special Teams Player
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