Penn State Scandal Thread

huKSer said:
SMU - the only school to get the death penalty - was on probation for paying recruits when they got caught paying recruits and fairly blatantly so at that. They were thumbing their nose at the NCAA and they had no choice but to close down the program. There is no precedent here for the death penalty.

Now as far as sanctions and other penalties: there are only two ways for the NCAA to get involved - lack of institutional control or as Moraine said "I would say covering up nasty crap like this in order to protect your football program's good name and maintain recruiting levels is an attempt to gain an advantage over what they assumed they were going to have if this all came out." The second doesn't seem logical - if the admin the moment they found out and looked proactive and turned Jerry over to the authorities it would have the admin protecting the innocent with little repercussions for the program. The evidence shows that the admin was going to do just this, but JoePa stepped in and said it was to protect Jerry's rep, not the programs rep, to sweep it under the rug.
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Yes, but Joe is NOT the damn boss and morally you don't let a head coach of a football team keep you from turning an adult to the authorities.

 
I doubt the football team will get any major penalties.

The University however will probably need to start grabbing their ankles as a whole right now with all the money(from lawsuits) and support they will be losing from embarrassed alumni and the state.

They are also apparently having trouble selling tickets to the home games.

 
Comish said:
tschu said:
Moiraine said:
tschu said:
No. This is a legal issue. This is not an NCAA issue. This has nothing to do with the NCAA at all. They didn't get a competitive advantage on the field, which is all the NCAA is responsible for. Don't worry though, they're going to get something far worse than the death penalty: loads and loads of jail time. The university, the football program, and the fans have suffered enough as a result of these men's actions. Death Penalty would accomplish absolutely nothing.
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I don't know the actual wording of any of the NCAA rules. Is it an attempt to gain advantage or just gaining an advantage? I would say covering up nasty crap like this in order to protect your football program's good name and maintain recruiting levels is an attempt to gain an advantage over what they assumed they were going to have if this all came out.

I would also argue that it would accomplish something. It would be a warning to other schools to immediately report things like this instead of sweeping them under the rug.
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I get that, and there may be some merit to this. And if they want to hit them with some penalties, fine. I just think the death penalty would accomplish absolutely nothing. We all know what they did was wrong. They're going to pay for it. The university and football program are paying for it already; their rich tradition and history has been totally shattered, their "legendary coach" as he was once called is gone. They have nothing. To kill the program completely is pretty harsh towards a lot of people who had nothing to do with the crimes committed and would not affect those who were responsible in any way. I know its the natural reaction to get angry and call for the Death Penalty, but it just doesn't make sense.
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Yet, right now their recruiting class is supposedly superior to ours...... :dunno
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Joe Pa was a HUGE detriment to recruiting,even with the scandal they are better off without him. Now you have O'Brien, he is getting after it and being OC of the Pats has huge cache around there. PSU is a traditional power that has WAY WAY more talent around them than we do. Pennsylvania has eight 4* and even the 30th ranked guy is a 3* with a solid offer list. They are right next to a huge recruiting state in Ohio. They are also next to two states that have fairly comparable talent to Pennsylvania in Jersey and Maryland, both states are VERY raidable. Yes PSU has a better class than us but even with the scandal they have easier recruiting than us, check their class, the guys are from in and around the state. This is how PSU should recruit, they just didn't because of Joe Pa.

That said, this scandal hasn't fully hit PSU yet. More is coming-out about how Joe, Spanier, etc covered criminal activity to protect the program. If huge lawsuits and sanctions are coming down the pike then recruiting could take a real hit.

 
Danimal said:
Comish said:
tschu said:
Moiraine said:
tschu said:
No. This is a legal issue. This is not an NCAA issue. This has nothing to do with the NCAA at all. They didn't get a competitive advantage on the field, which is all the NCAA is responsible for. Don't worry though, they're going to get something far worse than the death penalty: loads and loads of jail time. The university, the football program, and the fans have suffered enough as a result of these men's actions. Death Penalty would accomplish absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...
I don't know the actual wording of any of the NCAA rules. Is it an attempt to gain advantage or just gaining an advantage? I would say covering up nasty crap like this in order to protect your football program's good name and maintain recruiting levels is an attempt to gain an advantage over what they assumed they were going to have if this all came out.

I would also argue that it would accomplish something. It would be a warning to other schools to immediately report things like this instead of sweeping them under the rug.
Click to expand...
I get that, and there may be some merit to this. And if they want to hit them with some penalties, fine. I just think the death penalty would accomplish absolutely nothing. We all know what they did was wrong. They're going to pay for it. The university and football program are paying for it already; their rich tradition and history has been totally shattered, their "legendary coach" as he was once called is gone. They have nothing. To kill the program completely is pretty harsh towards a lot of people who had nothing to do with the crimes committed and would not affect those who were responsible in any way. I know its the natural reaction to get angry and call for the Death Penalty, but it just doesn't make sense.
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Yet, right now their recruiting class is supposedly superior to ours...... :dunno
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Joe Pa was a HUGE detriment to recruiting,even with the scandal they are better off without him. Now you have O'Brien, he is getting after it and being OC of the Pats has huge cache around there. PSU is a traditional power that has WAY WAY more talent around them than we do. Pennsylvania has eight 4* and even the 30th ranked guy is a 3* with a solid offer list. They are right next to a huge recruiting state in Ohio. They are also next to two states that have fairly comparable talent to Pennsylvania in Jersey and Maryland, both states are VERY raidable. Yes PSU has a better class than us but even with the scandal they have easier recruiting than us, check their class, the guys are from in and around the state. This is how PSU should recruit, they just didn't because of Joe Pa.

That said, this scandal hasn't fully hit PSU yet. More is coming-out about how Joe, Spanier, etc covered criminal activity to protect the program. If huge lawsuits and sanctions are coming down the pike then recruiting could take a real hit.
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+1

 
tschu said:
I was banned so I couldn't post it, but about a week ago, a very respected poster on PSU's Scout message board posted the following message:

irondoc[scout Subscriber]

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7013 posts this site

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Posted: Today 10:00 PM

Absolute possible worst case scenario is true

Is what it is. My children, twins, and their graduation party today. a friend was one of the investigators on this case. there will be from 11 - 30 more victims coming forward. Sandusky had little asterisks behind the names of the victims.

Spanier, Baldwin, Curley, Schultz ,and Joe Paterno were all complicit in a cover up. Joe was mentioned in emails.

Sandusky was forced out and they all knew why. Bradley and Ganter perjured themselves on the stand. thank God they hired outside.

And my friend mentioned if he was not dead Paterno would be arrested. the BOT is right. Joyner is right, and Corbett is right.

It was as bad as the worst accusations. I know this fellow for fifteen years and trust him implicitly. I will answer questions from moderators in pms, but no one else. This stuff might or might not come out, but this person is privy to all the emails, evidence and such. He was actually on television last night when Sandusky came out of the courthouse.

I was at a function today where I had this conversation. I willl not respond more to this thread, only to moderators in pms with the promise of privacy.
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Based on the emails that are now coming out, this appears to most likely all be true.

Okie said:
Honestly, I think Penn State deserves the death penalty here.
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No. This is a legal issue. This is not an NCAA issue. This has nothing to do with the NCAA at all. They didn't get a competitive advantage on the field, which is all the NCAA is responsible for. Don't worry though, they're going to get something far worse than the death penalty: loads and loads of jail time. The university, the football program, and the fans have suffered enough as a result of these men's actions. Death Penalty would accomplish absolutely nothing.
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I disagree. The death penalty allow PSU to clean house. It allows the program to truly reboot after a time and start rolling again. Unless the entire program is cleared out people will always wonder who knew what and when. Shut down football (either PSu chooses to, or the NCAA forces) let the kids on scolly to keep them, or transfer. Start back in a few years with a clean slate, IMO this will do more good for them than anything else.

 
My opinion is that an NCAA-imposed death penalty for PSU's football program would accomplish nothing except to feed the public's lust for vengeance. It certainly would not help the university or the football program unless decades of recovery and millions in lost revenue (in addition to all that they will eventually be paying in legal and civil costs anyway) is a positive change. We all want to see PSU hit hard and pay a steep price, and they surely will. But I agree that this is a legal issue, not an NCAA issue.

From the legal/civil side, Shultz, Curley, and Spanier are already out of a job, and hopefully they will do some hard time for all of this (hoping of course that Spanier gets brought up on charges as well). Whatever PSU ends up paying from civil suits will never be enough. If more people are eventually found to have been involved in the cover up, I hope they go down in flames as well. I wish they could resurrect Paterno from the dead just so he could rot in prison a few years before he dies again. I hope the legal and civil aspect to all of this is thorough, severe, and swift. If so, I would hope and expect that the rolling heads, staggering costs, and lost reputation will be enough of a penalty for PSU and enough of a lesson to others that such horrors can never be tolerated.

If the NCAA had standing to do anything, I wish they would as well, but realistically speaking, after seeing how the NCAA has bungled other issues and dragged their feet on more, I would not trust them or expect them to do anything meaningful. So based on that, I say leave the NCAA out of the PSU mess and let the school take their lumps and pay their dues otherwise.

 
Compare Penn State to Ohio State. The tOSU scandal involved tattoos for autographs and souvenirs, and then a cover-up. The Penn State scandal involved a heinous crime, and then a cover-up. Tattoos for autographs/souvenirs isn't even a crime--just an NCAA transgression. The Penn State scandal involved actual crimes--terrible, heinous crimes. Crimes by a coach, a school authority who is presumably more culpable than a bunch of goofball 18- 20 year old players with lack of judgement. Penn State is going to get hammered. And they deserve it. I hope it's not the death penalty, but is should definitely be way more severe that tOSU's sanctions.

 
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tschu said:
I was banned so I couldn't post it, but about a week ago, a very respected poster on PSU's Scout message board posted the following message:

irondoc[scout Subscriber]

Butkus Winner

7013 posts this site

Ignore this Member

Send Private Message

Nominate | Report

Posted: Today 10:00 PM

Absolute possible worst case scenario is true

Is what it is. My children, twins, and their graduation party today. a friend was one of the investigators on this case. there will be from 11 - 30 more victims coming forward. Sandusky had little asterisks behind the names of the victims.

Spanier, Baldwin, Curley, Schultz ,and Joe Paterno were all complicit in a cover up. Joe was mentioned in emails.

Sandusky was forced out and they all knew why. Bradley and Ganter perjured themselves on the stand. thank God they hired outside.

And my friend mentioned if he was not dead Paterno would be arrested. the BOT is right. Joyner is right, and Corbett is right.

It was as bad as the worst accusations. I know this fellow for fifteen years and trust him implicitly. I will answer questions from moderators in pms, but no one else. This stuff might or might not come out, but this person is privy to all the emails, evidence and such. He was actually on television last night when Sandusky came out of the courthouse.

I was at a function today where I had this conversation. I willl not respond more to this thread, only to moderators in pms with the promise of privacy.
Click to expand...
Based on the emails that are now coming out, this appears to most likely all be true.

Okie said:
Honestly, I think Penn State deserves the death penalty here.
Click to expand...
No. This is a legal issue. This is not an NCAA issue. This has nothing to do with the NCAA at all. They didn't get a competitive advantage on the field, which is all the NCAA is responsible for. Don't worry though, they're going to get something far worse than the death penalty: loads and loads of jail time. The university, the football program, and the fans have suffered enough as a result of these men's actions. Death Penalty would accomplish absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...
What on field advantage did tOSU gain by players trading stuff for tats? This is about the complicity of the coaches in the program as well as those higher up! Lack of Institutional control! Do they deserve the death penalty? Maybe not, but that shouldnt absolve the football program from any punishment from the NCaa!
 
tschu said:
Allow me to again disagree vehemently with the idea of giving PSU the death penalty.
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I agree. Some where today I read some said the death penalty was a chance for Penn St to clean house - except for the janitor, several administrative assistants and the ticket seller the people involved are gone. Sandusky, Spanier, the AD, the head of police and especially JoePa himself are no longer with the program. O'Brien, I think, brought in his own staff.

They should get clobbered with a bunch of sanctions for the lack of institutional control

 
The way I look at it is if a player used his status with the program and program facilities to commit serious crimes and the powers that be in the program and university covered it up to protect the program folks wouldn't question a lack of insitutional control investigation and subsequent sanctions. How is it so different with a coach? Sanctions wouldn't be for what Sandusky's crimes, they'd be for what transpired to protect PSU football.

 
RedRedJarvisRedwhine said:
What on field advantage did tOSU gain by players trading stuff for tats? This is about the complicity of the coaches in the program as well as those higher up! Lack of Institutional control! Do they deserve the death penalty? Maybe not, but that shouldnt absolve the football program from any punishment from the NCaa!
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The most serious sanctions against Ohio State were not because of the players trading gear for tats, they were because Jim Tressel found out about the violations earlier than he initially admitted and allowed those involved to play while not passing the information up the chain.

huKSer said:
I agree. Some where today I read some said the death penalty was a chance for Penn St to clean house - except for the janitor, several administrative assistants and the ticket seller the people involved are gone. Sandusky, Spanier, the AD, the head of police and especially JoePa himself are no longer with the program. O'Brien, I think, brought in his own staff.

They should get clobbered with a bunch of sanctions for the lack of institutional control
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O'Brien kept Larry Johnson & Rob Vanderlinden from the old staff.

The individuals that are known (so far) to have been involved with the scandal may be (mostly) gone but the culture of secrecy & unwillingness to accept responsibility remains. Right now Penn State has a member of the BOT actively participating on message boards arguing about how unfairly Joe was treated. If you take a look at the individuals actively seeking election to the BOT you will find that most of them implicitly state that one of their primary goals is to 'restore' Joe Paterno's name.

Penn State needs to completely clean house and start fresh to remove the institutionalized behavior that got them into this mess in the first place. Eliminating football for a year or two is not going to purge the University of the current culture. The best it could do is to help move the focus of the school away from football & Joe Paterno.

For those who desire sanctions against the football program...be patient. I have little doubt that the investigations going on will begin to uncover more information that does fall under the purview of the NCAA.

 
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