POB

[Elf]

Tommy makes a ton of mistakes. Always has. Chances are he can cut down on them somewhat. Problem is, we depend on him to win games as the focal point of the offense.

If we bring in a freshman and expect him to not make a bunch of mistakes as well, we better have him be more of a "game manager" until he gets seasoned.

I'm more concerned if POB starts that our defense will need to be much much better in order to put him in good positions to manage the game, not have to "win it" every play; which I feel like is a huge problem w TA. He plays like he has to win the game on every play.

Ya well TA doesn't have to win it either he just chooses too. The offense is geared to help him out but when he's making throws he's not supposed to. Then that's on him. Not the coaches.

Would you say asking Tommy Armstrong to throw 40+ times a game is gearing an offense to help him out?

He's a quarterback, if he can't throw the ball he should be playing a different position.

Tommie Frazier should've never played the position then, right? I mean, he was a 49% career passer.

Unless you're saying it's different because Frazier was recruited for a different offense? Well, so was Armstrong.

Or, is your point that the players should be able to do whatever the coaches ask them to just because.

Armstrong was always going to throw the ball at NU whether Tim Beck was calling the plays or if Danny Langsdorf was calling them.

Tommy is an "athlete" playing the qb position instead of a qb playing it. The previous staff seemed to prefer athletes at the QB position.

But, that's the point - TA is our best option at quarterback right now. Is having him throw the ball 40+ times in his best interest and in the team's best interest?

The answer is no because they've lost all four times that's happened.

Saying 'if he can't throw then he shouldn't be a quarterback' is a hindsight critique.

It most certainly is NOT a hindsight critique, he never should've been playing the position to begin with. Recruit actual qb's to play the position.

At the beginning of the season Armstrong looked to be benefiting from finally having a qb coach. At the end of the season he appeared to be regressing to his old bad habits. It is in his best interests to follow what his QB coach is telling him. By doing so, he becomes an asset to the team instead of the liability he is right now.

With this coaching staff we are going to throw the ball, don't like it? To bad, go root for a different team because as long as this staff is here we are a throw first offense and no one benefits as long as we have a qb that can't make good decisions. The coaches aren't going to change this offense for one person. It's up to Armstrong to not be a liability. It's HIS job to learn what his coaches are trying to teach him.

 

[Mavric]

I don't buy the argument that the coaches are responsible for making Tommy throw deep. There are multiple routes being ran at one time and Tommy is the one that decides where to put the ball. Sure, he might be told to look at one route more then another but probably isn't instructed to throw just to that guy.

I keep seeing everyone say that the coaches didn't call plays that complemented Tommy's strengths. What exactly are Tommy's strengths?

Running

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I think the QB competition was wide open this past spring, and having considered all their options, the coaching staff realized their best chance to win this season was with Tommy Armstrong at quarterback.

Sometimes Tommy passes the ball really well. Sometimes he completes passes other quarterbacks can't throw. Sometimes his running ability carries the play. Sometimes he's voted the Big 10 Offensive Player of the Week. Sometimes, like right now, he's #2 in Total Offense in the Big 10, and the third most prolific offensive machine in the long history of Nebraska football.

Other times he kills you with stupid decisions, often in the same game where he's performing these heroics.

He's a third year starter who hasn't learned much from his freshman year, and might well be rebelling against the growing criticism. I have no doubt he's heard about his terrible footwork and mechanics from more than one coach over the years. My armchair psychoanalysis says he actually enjoys ignoring this advice -- like he does those checkdown receivers -- believing his awesome comebacks and near comebacks will silence the critics. I don't think he's aware of the liability he's become, and I don't think he hears the footsteps of legitimate QB competition behind him.

Sometimes I like the idea of benching Armstrong just to get his attention, but not if I want Nebraska to actually win the game.

So we will start next season in exactly the same place. It's hard to believe Darlington, Bush and Fyfe became any more promising over the course of the season, and O'Brien will arrive with the same proven credentials.

Tommy can win us some games, especially if the defense gives up fewer than 28 points a game. But if he won't take advice, I hope he hears footsteps. For that to happen, POB needs to be immediately legitimate.

As for Nebraska being 0-4 when we pass more than 40 times a game, that's a pretty common and misleading stat on lots of teams, skewed by the fact that losing teams are frequently trailing in the fourth quarter and last second comebacks can't rely on time-draining short yardage runs.

This was a really bad rushing year for Nebraska, but the Huskers still had a better per game total and per carry average than Michigan State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Penn State. For all the "West Coast" jibes, we were still playing the same Big 10 football as our conference traditionalists.

Except for the defense.

And the turnovers.

And the wins.

 

[melscott62]

I think the QB competition was wide open this past spring, and having considered all their options, the coaching staff realized their best chance to win this season was with Tommy Armstrong at quarterback.

Sometimes Tommy passes the ball really well. Sometimes he completes passes other quarterbacks can't throw. Sometimes his running ability carries the play. Sometimes he's voted the Big 10 Offensive Player of the Week. Sometimes, like right now, he's #2 in Total Offense in the Big 10, and the third most prolific offensive machine in the long history of Nebraska football.

Other times he kills you with stupid decisions, often in the same game where he's performing these heroics.

He's a third year starter who hasn't learned much from his freshman year, and might well be rebelling against the growing criticism. I have no doubt he's heard about his terrible footwork and mechanics from more than one coach over the years. My armchair psychoanalysis says he actually enjoys ignoring this advice -- like he does those checkdown receivers -- believing his awesome comebacks and near comebacks will silence the critics. I don't think he's aware of the liability he's become, and I don't think he hears the footsteps of legitimate QB competition behind him.

Sometimes I like the idea of benching Armstrong just to get his attention, but not if I want Nebraska to actually win the game.

So we will start next season in exactly the same place. It's hard to believe Darlington, Bush and Fyfe became any more promising over the course of the season, and O'Brien will arrive with the same proven credentials.

Tommy can win us some games, especially if the defense gives up fewer than 28 points a game. But if he won't take advice, I hope he hears footsteps. For that to happen, POB needs to be immediately legitimate.

As for Nebraska being 0-4 when we pass more than 40 times a game, that's a pretty common and misleading stat on lots of teams, skewed by the fact that losing teams are frequently trailing in the fourth quarter and last second comebacks can't rely on time-draining short yardage runs.

This was a really bad rushing year for Nebraska, but the Huskers still had a better per game total and per carry average than Michigan State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Penn State. For all the "West Coast" jibes, we were still playing the same Big 10 football as our conference traditionalists.

Except for the defense.

And the turnovers.

And the wins.

I think tommy is tough for a coach because he is tempting to try to "fix" ..... If you could get him to stop making stupid decisions he would be a really really good player. And if you hadn't worked with him for 3 years you might not realize how ingrained it is in him. Imo Riley and Danny thought they could correct the problems. I think they will move on at some point next year. The sooner the better.

 

[Mavric]

I've been trying to figure out what the coaches see in TA since spring. It's obvious - and has been for some time - that he lacks the skills that QBs need to run Langsdorf's system. That's why I was surprised how quickly he "won" the job.

Now it's entirely possible - and accurate to a large extent - that TA does more things better than the other guys we have now. But it's also true - from many media reports - that the other guys didn't get nearly as much of a chance.

Here's my assertion of how things went after the new coaches came on board.

TA was a two-year starter. He played well in the bowl game (the first game the new coaches saw as our coaches). By all accounts, he's popular with the team. And he has good leadership qualities.

The new coaches knew they had a lot of work ahead of them to get their system in place. It doesn't make any sense to try to get 3-4 QBs ready to play. You have to pick a guy - two at max - and get them as many reps as possible. TA was obviously well ahead of everyone else in playing time and years in college. And he has the physical tools. Pretty easy to say "he's our guy, we just need him to work on a few things and learn the system." Thus, he's getting the vast majority of the reps all spring and fall.

Then you have Fyfe. He's the kind of guy you would expect to be a good back-up from an NFL point of view. He's a veteran compared to they other guys. He has more game experience. He doesn't have the highest ceiling but you expect (

) him to be able to come in and run the show if needed (which you're hoping to not have to do).

So the coaches were forced to make quick decisions and they went with the most logical choices. Those guys get all the reps and the other guys get the scraps. Can't blame them - really no other way to go.

But now things are different. The entire team knows the system (more or less). There isn't the demand to keep installing new things. They can work on the things they need to get better at. And you can give more time to the backups. That leaves a wider door open for someone else to make a move. You add all that to the lack of success TA had this year plus however the sexual assault and walking out of practice play into it and I think (hope) POB has a great chance to push for a starting spot.

It would be quite a feat for a true freshman to unseat a fifth-year senior who's a three year starter. But I've also been reading between the lines whenever Riley or Langsdorf talk about TA. All the way back for 11 months. Spring practice, fall camp and through the year. They always talked about how he's a competitor. How he's a leader. How's he bounces back from mistakes. You almost never heard them come out of a practice saying "Tommy really threw the ball well today." Or "Tommy is really running the offense great." It's always been about the intangibles. Those are all well and good. But at some point it has to translate into actual performance. It does in flashes - TA's problem has never been that he can't do what's asked of him. It's always been that he can't do it consistently enough.

It'll be interesting to see if TA can make some progress and hold off the competition or if the coaches are really looking for someone to make a push for the job.

 

[Enhance]

Tommy makes a ton of mistakes. Always has. Chances are he can cut down on them somewhat. Problem is, we depend on him to win games as the focal point of the offense.

If we bring in a freshman and expect him to not make a bunch of mistakes as well, we better have him be more of a "game manager" until he gets seasoned.

I'm more concerned if POB starts that our defense will need to be much much better in order to put him in good positions to manage the game, not have to "win it" every play; which I feel like is a huge problem w TA. He plays like he has to win the game on every play.

Ya well TA doesn't have to win it either he just chooses too. The offense is geared to help him out but when he's making throws he's not supposed to. Then that's on him. Not the coaches.

Would you say asking Tommy Armstrong to throw 40+ times a game is gearing an offense to help him out?

He's a quarterback, if he can't throw the ball he should be playing a different position.

Tommie Frazier should've never played the position then, right? I mean, he was a 49% career passer.

Unless you're saying it's different because Frazier was recruited for a different offense? Well, so was Armstrong.

Or, is your point that the players should be able to do whatever the coaches ask them to just because.

I can't help but LOL at this comparison. The difference between that Tommie and this Tommy are the W's plain and simple. Frazier rarely made mistakes and he was a clutch player. 43 TD's and 11 INT's over 4 years? Yeah, I'll take it.

The reason for the comparison flew entirely over your head. This has nothing to do with wins and losses or who is better. It has to do with what a quarterback's strengths are. If Armstrong is your best option at quarterback, and you have him throwing 40 times a game, that's a problem and you're hurting the team.

Don't come into a thread like Miley Cyrus on a wrecking ball unless you're going to understand context.

Whoaaa somebody is a little too dramatic, huh? Perhaps you should breathe a little bit. Sorry, but invoking a legendary QB in Tommie Frazier while taking a jab at him and then comparing him to what he have now is so out there and completely irrational. I agree that having Armstrong throw 40 times a game is a big problem.

Far too often people jump into threads like a cowboy, guns blazing, without having a single shred of an idea what the conversation is about. They just see things and start picking at them like a dog chasing cars. The joke is that I wasn't even criticizing Frazier. The point was TA is not a guy that should throw 40+ times a game, but, that doesn't mean he can't be a quarterback. I never once compared their successes and failures. That's on you.

Who brought Frazier into the discussion? Me? Or you? Frazier will live forever in Husker Lore unfortunately for Tommy Armstrong, unless he miraculously becomes a different QB and leads Nebraska to a natty, he'll become an after thought. I think most people can understand your point of view and hatred towards Tommy Armstrong without having to include a former legend into the fold.

My mentioning of Frazier was to talk about quarterback success when throwing the football and that's it. Frazier proved you didn't have to have a great arm to be a great quarterback. Anything else was entirely concocted by you and you alone. Don't try to suggest otherwise. I don't see anyone else here believing that I was trying to compare their successes and failures as you insist to continue doing.

And please - several of my posts in this thread and others have talked about how TA needs more help from his coaches. I've never once expressed hatred for him as a player and he has my 100% support has our quarterback. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[4skers89]

But now things are different. The entire team knows the system (more or less). There isn't the demand to keep installing new things. They can work on the things they need to get better at. And you can give more time to the backups. That leaves a wider door open for someone else to make a move. You add all that to the lack of success TA had this year plus however the sexual assault and walking out of practice play into it and I think (hope) POB has a great chance to push for a starting spot.

The bowl practices should help with this.

 

[GBRFAN]

I don't buy the argument that the coaches are responsible for making Tommy throw deep. There are multiple routes being ran at one time and Tommy is the one that decides where to put the ball. Sure, he might be told to look at one route more then another but probably isn't instructed to throw just to that guy.

I keep seeing everyone say that the coaches didn't call plays that complemented Tommy's strengths. What exactly are Tommy's strengths?

Running

I guess we have one more RB next year then!!!!

 

[husker98]

I've been trying to figure out what the coaches see in TA since spring. It's obvious - and has been for some time - that he lacks the skills that QBs need to run Langsdorf's system. That's why I was surprised how quickly he "won" the job.

Now it's entirely possible - and accurate to a large extent - that TA does more things better than the other guys we have now. But it's also true - from many media reports - that the other guys didn't get nearly as much of a chance.

Here's my assertion of how things went after the new coaches came on board.

TA was a two-year starter. He played well in the bowl game (the first game the new coaches saw as our coaches). By all accounts, he's popular with the team. And he has good leadership qualities.

The new coaches knew they had a lot of work ahead of them to get their system in place. It doesn't make any sense to try to get 3-4 QBs ready to play. You have to pick a guy - two at max - and get them as many reps as possible. TA was obviously well ahead of everyone else in playing time and years in college. And he has the physical tools. Pretty easy to say "he's our guy, we just need him to work on a few things and learn the system." Thus, he's getting the vast majority of the reps all spring and fall.

Then you have Fyfe. He's the kind of guy you would expect to be a good back-up from an NFL point of view. He's a veteran compared to they other guys. He has more game experience. He doesn't have the highest ceiling but you expect (

) him to be able to come in and run the show if needed (which you're hoping to not have to do).

So the coaches were forced to make quick decisions and they went with the most logical choices. Those guys get all the reps and the other guys get the scraps. Can't blame them - really no other way to go.

But now things are different. The entire team knows the system (more or less). There isn't the demand to keep installing new things. They can work on the things they need to get better at. And you can give more time to the backups. That leaves a wider door open for someone else to make a move. You add all that to the lack of success TA had this year plus however the sexual assault and walking out of practice play into it and I think (hope) POB has a great chance to push for a starting spot.

It would be quite a feat for a true freshman to unseat a fifth-year senior who's a three year starter. But I've also been reading between the lines whenever Riley or Langsdorf talk about TA. All the way back for 11 months. Spring practice, fall camp and through the year. They always talked about how he's a competitor. How he's a leader. How's he bounces back from mistakes. You almost never heard them come out of a practice saying "Tommy really threw the ball well today." Or "Tommy is really running the offense great." It's always been about the intangibles. Those are all well and good. But at some point it has to translate into actual performance. It does in flashes - TA's problem has never been that he can't do what's asked of him. It's always been that he can't do it consistently enough.

It'll be interesting to see if TA can make some progress and hold off the competition or if the coaches are really looking for someone to make a push for the job.

I think there is one variable we have overlooked. And that is team chemistry. I often ponder if Riley and Langsdorf kept Tommy in there due to his leadership and position in the team social structure. (This also applies to Alex Lewis.)

The social chemistry of this group is an unknown. But incidents like those listed above and our performance this season make me wonder if Riley has total control of the locker room. And therefore feared that benching Tommy, even just to set him straight, might cause the older Bo kids to turn against him. That's probably more fiction than reality but these incidents are tell signs of a larger rumbling issue within the team I think.

 

[GBRFAN]

I've been trying to figure out what the coaches see in TA since spring. It's obvious - and has been for some time - that he lacks the skills that QBs need to run Langsdorf's system. That's why I was surprised how quickly he "won" the job.

Now it's entirely possible - and accurate to a large extent - that TA does more things better than the other guys we have now. But it's also true - from many media reports - that the other guys didn't get nearly as much of a chance.

Here's my assertion of how things went after the new coaches came on board.

TA was a two-year starter. He played well in the bowl game (the first game the new coaches saw as our coaches). By all accounts, he's popular with the team. And he has good leadership qualities.

The new coaches knew they had a lot of work ahead of them to get their system in place. It doesn't make any sense to try to get 3-4 QBs ready to play. You have to pick a guy - two at max - and get them as many reps as possible. TA was obviously well ahead of everyone else in playing time and years in college. And he has the physical tools. Pretty easy to say "he's our guy, we just need him to work on a few things and learn the system." Thus, he's getting the vast majority of the reps all spring and fall.

Then you have Fyfe. He's the kind of guy you would expect to be a good back-up from an NFL point of view. He's a veteran compared to they other guys. He has more game experience. He doesn't have the highest ceiling but you expect (

) him to be able to come in and run the show if needed (which you're hoping to not have to do).

So the coaches were forced to make quick decisions and they went with the most logical choices. Those guys get all the reps and the other guys get the scraps. Can't blame them - really no other way to go.

But now things are different. The entire team knows the system (more or less). There isn't the demand to keep installing new things. They can work on the things they need to get better at. And you can give more time to the backups. That leaves a wider door open for someone else to make a move. You add all that to the lack of success TA had this year plus however the sexual assault and walking out of practice play into it and I think (hope) POB has a great chance to push for a starting spot.

It would be quite a feat for a true freshman to unseat a fifth-year senior who's a three year starter. But I've also been reading between the lines whenever Riley or Langsdorf talk about TA. All the way back for 11 months. Spring practice, fall camp and through the year. They always talked about how he's a competitor. How he's a leader. How's he bounces back from mistakes. You almost never heard them come out of a practice saying "Tommy really threw the ball well today." Or "Tommy is really running the offense great." It's always been about the intangibles. Those are all well and good. But at some point it has to translate into actual performance. It does in flashes - TA's problem has never been that he can't do what's asked of him. It's always been that he can't do it consistently enough.

It'll be interesting to see if TA can make some progress and hold off the competition or if the coaches are really looking for someone to make a push for the job.

This post is spot on - [SIZE=10.5pt]especially[/SIZE] "he's popular with the team"

coaching staff couldn't take a chance in the beginning of losing the players by benching one of the teams favorite guys

 

[Waterloohusker26]

I won't say everbody, but I see a LOT of posters talking about POB coming in and taking the starting job...or pushing Tommy so he gets better...etc, etc, etc.

Wasn't Stanton supposed to do that....or Darlington.....or Bush...and wasn't Tommy supposed to push Martinez or replace him?

POB hasn't taken a single snap even in practice at UN-L.

Am I missing something about him that transcends the other wunderkinds that have come here, and gone?

I hope he's the real deal, but such confidence in a mostly unknown skill baffles me.

It's the can anything be worse than what we had this year? There was much more bad than good with TA this year

 

[cornographic]

Well, BYU beat us with their stud frosh QB, jNU beat us with their stud frosh QB, ND is beating everybody not named "Tree" with their stud frosh QB, Josh Rosen yep, have I left anybody out? Sooo, if POB is who everyone here seems to think(fantasize) he is, then what the heck, maybe he can over take the starting role next year. I highly doubt it, but who knows, I hope he's that good.

 

[Husker_luver]

Maybe simplistic but could improve his short passing game, especially screens. WR screens were average at best and I've never screen anyone so bad at throwing a screen pass to the running back.

 

[jschmidt]

This post is spot on - [SIZE=10.5pt]especially[/SIZE] "he's popular with the team"


coaching staff couldn't take a chance in the beginning of losing the players by benching one of the teams favorite guys

I think there is one variable we have overlooked. And that is team chemistry. I often ponder if Riley and Langsdorf kept Tommy in there due to his leadership and position in the team social structure. (This also applies to Alex Lewis.)

The social chemistry of this group is an unknown. But incidents like those listed above and our performance this season make me wonder if Riley has total control of the locker room. And therefore feared that benching Tommy, even just to set him straight, might cause the older Bo kids to turn against him. That's probably more fiction than reality but these incidents are tell signs of a larger rumbling issue within the team I think.

+1

completely agree with both of you. found myself thinking the same things the last couple of weeks.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Here's my assertion of how things went after the new coaches came on board.

TA was a two-year starter. He played well in the bowl game (the first game the new coaches saw as our coaches).

That's a good point.

If you watched Tommy Armstrong against USC, in his first game without Bo Pelini, he carved up one of the Pac 12's fastest, most athletic defenses, completed 64% of his passes for 381 yards and just one pick. He outplayed Cody Kessler. He would have won the game with a less porous Nebraska defense.

They showed Riley in the stands as the HC-in-waiting. No reason for him not to believe he could work with that guy.