POW/MIA Memorial Coming to Memorial

khaake said:
Again, the problem as I see it is that is this isn't in isolation. There are multiple events throughout the game, on the network, etc., every week. It's just too much, and a strange pairing. Let the game be the game.
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I guess I am confused as to what this sentence means. 

Multiple events throughout the game - I can think of two. One of which doesn't even occur each week.

- If there is a fly over, they'll introduce the pilots during a tv timeout or between quarters

- Ask for veterans or active servicemen and women to stand, once again during a tv timeout

I don't know how that takes away from the game, as they usually occur during a break. 

But I am pretty sure there are not multiple military events on the various networks during the week. I hardly recall BTN having a dedicated military show.

If you're going to use the "let the game be the game" argument, then there should be no anthem (which I would be ok with), no protesting, and no players expressing their personal opinions.

 
HuskerNBigD said:
But I am pretty sure there are not multiple military events on the various networks during the week. I hardly recall BTN having a dedicated military show.
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The network (at least the games) are sponsored in part by the military. The in-game events add value to that sponsorship.

 
Maybe they should stop honoring the past teams and players also.  I mean, who really cares about a team that played when i was 6 years old.  Its just stupid. 

 
In the Deed the Glory said:
So your problem is that you believe that, somehow, it is possible to talk about Veterans and the sacrifice those that didn't survive made TOO OFTEN?  I just can't get behind that.  Nothing in this world is guaranteed, and freedom damn sure didn't come free.

I am a pretty open minded guy, and listen to a lot of opinions with intention of understanding their point of view.  I am not a war monger, I don't want us in all of these conflicts mostly for the financial reasons.  However, many of these "empty seats" are in response to recent soldiers not having remains recovered.  Whose families are still mourning.  If we can help comfort them, what kind of person wouldn't want to.

I also cannot understand the thought that if we just let evil continue in the world that it won't eventually become a Nazi-like state that will try to invade the world and push its evil agenda on innocent people. 

However, many of my best friends, relatives, and co-workers have risked and some given their lives to make sure you have the right to choose to act however you want.  They will say that to you as you refuse to honor their fallen brothers.

It is a selfless act, maybe the greatest, to risk one's life to protect another's.  When someone is willing to do that, no matter the motivation of their superiors, they should be commended for it.  The vast majority of Americans agree with the point of view that I am describing.  I really hope we are not becoming the nation that doesn't support their military and allows it to dwindle and falter.

If that does happen, we'd better be ready to hand our freedom's over to the evil people that would take them away.  That is the fear, that is what has happened throughout history.  Every great power to fall allowed themselves to be too comfortable and didn't adequately protect their way of life.  From Egypt to Rome and beyond, it happened over and over.

If it takes reminding people of the sacrifice it takes during large gatherings to stop that from becoming our future, then let's do it as often as possible.  I like being free, and I owe the freedom I love to those that risked everything for me to have it.
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This is one of those discussions that frustrate me in that I fully 100% support our troops, military, veterans, POWs, MIAs and anyone else that puts their lives on the line for this country.  I have relatives that would fall under every single one of those categories.

However, if you even come close to questioning the motivations behind a memorial like this or some type of dedication at a sporting event.....you get labeled as someone who doesn't support troops, doesn't value our freedoms, don't love America....etc.

I'll admit, I've been to sporting events where I've been choked up at a certain dedication and I've been to some where I sit there saying...OK....that's getting to the point of ridiculous.

I always have a question for veterans that I've never come out and asked.  Do you ever get tired of or feel uncomfortable with being recognized at random public events?  Many times I sit there and think about if I were a veteran, I would appreciate the appreciation shown.  BUT....at times, I just want to sit and watch a game and not be recognized for something I did 20 years ago.

 
khaake said:
The network (at least the games) are sponsored in part by the military. The in-game events add value to that sponsorship.
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I know you've hashed this out before, but in addition to the two events I mentioned are we missing any other events. I just don't think flyover, or acknowledging the pilots, and asking veterans to stand in recognition really detract from the events. However, I never thought about the situation @BigRedBuster just alluded to and that's whether or not constant recognition makes the veterans uncomfortable. Interesting take.

Final question: If we're eliminating military events, are we going to allow players to protest or should they just let the game be the game? 






 
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HuskerNBigD said:
I know you've hashed this out before, but in addition to the two events I mentioned are we missing any other events. I hardly think the flyover, or acknowledging the pilots, and asking veterans to stand in recognition classify as in-game events. If we're eliminating military events, are we going to allow players to protest or should they just let the game be the game?
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Yes, I have mentioned the militarism on display at University events (such as FB games) before, and I commented on this particular decision to have this new public display because it feeds into that pet peeve. In any case, I do think the things you mentioned do count as 'in-game' events, in that they are a part of the experience presented by and at the direction of the University. You can try to conflate that with a few individual decisions made by individual players to protest, but I personally think they are very different things.

 
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BigRedBuster said:
This is one of those discussions that frustrate me in that I fully 100% support our troops, military, veterans, POWs, MIAs and anyone else that puts their lives on the line for this country.  I have relatives that would fall under every single one of those categories.

However, if you even come close to questioning the motivations behind a memorial like this or some type of dedication at a sporting event.....you get labeled as someone who doesn't support troops, doesn't value our freedoms, don't love America....etc.

I'll admit, I've been to sporting events where I've been choked up at a certain dedication and I've been to some where I sit there saying...OK....that's getting to the point of ridiculous.

I always have a question for veterans that I've never come out and asked.  Do you ever get tired of or feel uncomfortable with being recognized at random public events?  Many times I sit there and think about if I were a veteran, I would appreciate the appreciation shown.  BUT....at times, I just want to sit and watch a game and not be recognized for something I did 20 years ago.
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This is an interesting discussion, and I know we have veterans or current military members on this forum.  Maybe they could answer for you.

Although it is in no way close to the same level of commitment and bravery, and I am not trying to compare the two in any way, but as a teacher I have been asked to stand all the time either at Church or other events to be recognized.  I hate it.  I don't do what I do to be recognized by people.  In this way, I see your point.

I would like to say that I don't ever judge someone for their opinion, I am a big believer in free thought and speech.  I appreciate the intelligent conversation.

 
khaake said:
Yes, I have mentioned the militarism on display at University events (such as FB games) before, and I commented on this particular decision to have this new public display because it feeds into that pet peeve. In any case, yes, I think the things you mentioned do count as 'in-game' events, in that they are a part of the experience presented by and at the direction of the University. You can try to conflate that with a few individual decisions made by individual players to protest, but I personally think they are very different things.
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I don't really see it as conflating. I guess, at least at a high level, I don't see how these are different things with regards to affecting the in game entertainment. They are both instances or actions that strike nerves with various individuals. If were going to say take away all pro military events and just let the game be the game you can't then say the players should be able protest, because that negatively impacts others and will take away from their in-game experience.

Ultimately, I think players should be able to voice their opinions, but I also think that the University should be able to recognize fallen veterans. 

 
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BigRedBuster said:
This is one of those discussions that frustrate me in that I fully 100% support our troops, military, veterans, POWs, MIAs and anyone else that puts their lives on the line for this country.  I have relatives that would fall under every single one of those categories.

However, if you even come close to questioning the motivations behind a memorial like this or some type of dedication at a sporting event.....you get labeled as someone who doesn't support troops, doesn't value our freedoms, don't love America....etc.

I'll admit, I've been to sporting events where I've been choked up at a certain dedication and I've been to some where I sit there saying...OK....that's getting to the point of ridiculous.

I always have a question for veterans that I've never come out and asked.  Do you ever get tired of or feel uncomfortable with being recognized at random public events?  Many times I sit there and think about if I were a veteran, I would appreciate the appreciation shown.  BUT....at times, I just want to sit and watch a game and not be recognized for something I did 20 years ago.
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Yes. I don't stand or whatever they ask vets to do at these events anymore.  My wife thinks I should but I just feel uncomfortable doing it.  I didn't serve for recognition.  I served because I wanted to do it.  I don't ask for your thanks but at the same time I won't be a d!(k to you for thanking me either. Uncle Same gave me an education for "free" so I consider us square.  I don't talk about my service much either because it won't resonate with most people.  People ask dumb questions.  I can't tell you how many times I've been asked if I've ever killed anyone.  Why does that matter?  Are you going to think any more/less of me by my honest answer to that question?  Kick rocks, buddy.

I personally think this chair/seat thing is kind of dumb but I won't disrespect it either.  I think some of the other veteran recognition things are kind of dumb too.  I know people that just eat up the recognition and have never left CONUS.  Now, I'm not saying you ever need to be deployed to make a difference in the military but it's hard to take someone seriously is they've never has their a$$ in the grass.  I'm jaded.  I've seen a lot of weird s#!t in the short time I was in the military.  The world is a super messed up place.

 
darkhorse85 said:
Yes. I don't stand or whatever they ask vets to do at these events anymore.  My wife thinks I should but I just feel uncomfortable doing it.  I didn't serve for recognition.  I served because I wanted to do it.  I don't ask for your thanks but at the same time I won't be a d!(k to you for thanking me either. Uncle Same gave me an education for "free" so I consider us square.  I don't talk about my service much either because it won't resonate with most people.  People ask dumb questions.  I can't tell you how many times I've been asked if I've ever killed anyone.  Why does that matter?  Are you going to think any more/less of me by my honest answer to that question?  Kick rocks, buddy.

I personally think this chair/seat thing is kind of dumb but I won't disrespect it either.  I think some of the other veteran recognition things are kind of dumb too.  I know people that just eat up the recognition and have never left CONUS.  Now, I'm not saying you ever need to be deployed to make a difference in the military but it's hard to take someone seriously is they've never has their a$$ in the grass.  I'm jaded.  I've seen a lot of weird s#!t in the short time I was in the military.  The world is a super messed up place.
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Thanks for your honest answer on this.

 
darkhorse85 said:
Yes. I don't stand or whatever they ask vets to do at these events anymore.  My wife thinks I should but I just feel uncomfortable doing it.  I didn't serve for recognition.  I served because I wanted to do it.  I don't ask for your thanks but at the same time I won't be a d!(k to you for thanking me either. Uncle Same gave me an education for "free" so I consider us square.  I don't talk about my service much either because it won't resonate with most people.  People ask dumb questions.  I can't tell you how many times I've been asked if I've ever killed anyone.  Why does that matter?  Are you going to think any more/less of me by my honest answer to that question?  Kick rocks, buddy.

I personally think this chair/seat thing is kind of dumb but I won't disrespect it either.  I think some of the other veteran recognition things are kind of dumb too.  I know people that just eat up the recognition and have never left CONUS.  Now, I'm not saying you ever need to be deployed to make a difference in the military but it's hard to take someone seriously is they've never has their a$$ in the grass.  I'm jaded.  I've seen a lot of weird s#!t in the short time I was in the military.  The world is a super messed up place.
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They did the standup thing at Michigan a few years ago. I felt a little strange at first but looking around and seeing fellow vets that were Michigan fans was very cool.  I suppose the coolness would wear off if done at every game and I was a season ticket holder. Glad you got some benefits after your service. For many, there is nothing so I think the recognition is a small thing but appreciated. I can understand how it could be uncomfortable for those that didn’t serve.

 
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