Pre-Season AP Poll

[BigRedBuster]

To expand. I think logically it should have been

1. FSU

2. OREGON (they avenged their only loss, no one else did)

3. Bama

4. Baylor. (Loss to west VA better than osu's VA tech)

TCU should have never been ahead of Baylor due to head to head. Ohio state had the worst loss of anyone and just lost a starting qb.

To me the playoff failed in the selection process last year.

And thus the problem with a four-team playoff. The team that was far and away the best team at the end of the year is left out because of a slip-up at the beginning of the year after losing their starting QB in camp. We're stuck trying to compare wins and losses with basically no common opponents.

I don't think it failed. It just didn't agree with your opinion.

So, now we're saying the regular season doesn't matter? Isn't this the argument that was made for decades as to why there wasn't a playoff at the D1 level? Coach T's picks are exactly how I would have picked them, but I wouldn't have given FSU the overall #1. If we go back to the way things used to be, Ohio State doesn't end up as the NC. There were a lot of years in there back in the late 80's and early 90's where Florida State was the hottest team in the country at season's end but had one loss earlier in the season to Miami by a missed field goal. They never ended up as NC. I'm really not sure we want to argue about when the loss occurred during the season. The way things are, Ohio State shouldn't have been in the playoff.

I've always advocated an 8 team playoff. Last year is a great example of what happens when you have too small of a sample size. Without expanding the playoff, we're left with just as bigof cluster as we had with the BCS.

How in the heck can you say the regular season doesn't matter in this. How do these teams get into the discussion? By playing well and winning all but maybe one of their games in the regular season.

If you somehow take only conference champions, the regular season is extremely important because how do you win your conference? By playing well and winning games in the regular season.

I agree with the 8 team play off. I think it is the best overall number. Take all power 5 conference champions and three wild cards.

 

[junior4949]

If you say it does matter, then just how in the heck did Ohio State get in last year? They lost to a $hitty Va Tech team at home. It was the worst loss of the one loss teams by far and away.

 

[BigRedBuster]

If you say it does matter, then just how in the heck did Ohio State get in last year? They lost to a $hitty Va Tech team at home. It was the worst loss of the one loss teams by far and away.

Because they won their conference. How did they win their conference if the regular season doesn't matter?

What I think we are saying is that in both scenarios, the regular season matters. It just matters in a different way.

However, in fact, I think in the current and future (hopefully 8 team playoff), I would argue that the regular season maters more. Last year, there were WAY more games in the regular season that mattered to the national championship than in prior years. For OSU, every game after VTech still mattered last year. In prior years, every game after VTech would have meant absolutely nothing as far as the NC goes.

 

[Redux]

The 64 team playoff is pointless discussing, never gonna happen. The conferences are not going to agree to take on extra teams and just dissolve an entire conference or 4 to do a 64 team regional basketball style tournament.

You are thenone who kept bringing up the conference wins. Ohio State had a 9-0 record in conference. TCU was 8-1. Advantage Buckeyes.

You say conference titles shouldnt decide teams. Alabama, Oregon, Ohio State and FSU all won their conferences via an extra championship game. TCU split the conference title with a team they beat in regular season. Advantage Buckeyes.

Losses matter. Okay fine. TCU losing to WVU is slightly better than Ohio State losing to VaTech. But tOSU lost in week 2 I believe. Then they roared back with a backup QB. Then they had to start a 3rd QB whose first 3 starts were a conference championship win, a semifinall playoff win, and a national championship. If we cant count wins in post season its a tie, otherwise, advantage Buckeyes.

TCU was far more worthy than FSU but FSU didn't technically lose. They played like crap against ND no matter your opinion. TCU deserved it more but their conference didn't help them and they were left out.

Again, your facts are off. TCU lost to Baylor. Not West Va.Baylor lost to West Va

I'm typing this out on the run at work, give me a break. Also why my assuption you were pushing for a 64 team playoff, Im skimming at points Ill admit. I also just paid $171 bucks for a damn tux rental so my heads not right.
But Im sitting down on break now, so ready thyself.

Yes TCU best WVU by 1 point where as Baylosr lost to them by like 14. Thats the thing. Baylor was the best team TCU played all year, and they lost. Two of the nations top offenses, and TCU's was a touch short. They win that game, they are in. No question. The Big 12 was their undoing not the comittee. The Big 12 awarded a co championship to Baylor and TCU even though the head to head should have given it to Baylor. But TCU was still ahead in the poll and would have been in had Ohio State not stomped Wiscy, or the Yellowjackets beat FSU.

FSU was a play or four away from being a fairly average team. I didn't get to watch much of them last year, but when I did it was nowhere near the 2013 caliber team they fielded. Like I said, FSU was defending national champion. They were undefeated. They got in by default, I promise you that. Anything besides a perfect record and they are easily outside the top 4.

Ohio State lost early to a vanilla VaTech team. Thats on them. But they rebounded in a big way and continually over powered the rest of their opponents. I mean think about it, if you are on the committee watching tOSU blowout Wisconsin in the title game while TCU and Baylor sit at home waiting for the final rankings, what would you do?

The body of work, the conference championships, and the W/L record is what played into the final 4 choices. They got it right.

 

[Mierin]

If you say it does matter, then just how in the heck did Ohio State get in last year? They lost to a $hitty Va Tech team at home. It was the worst loss of the one loss teams by far and away.

Because they won their conference. How did they win their conference if the regular season doesn't matter?

What I think we are saying is that in both scenarios, the regular season matters. It just matters in a different way.

However, in fact, I think in the current and future (hopefully 8 team playoff), I would argue that the regular season maters more. Last year, there were WAY more games in the regular season that mattered to the national championship than in prior years. For OSU, every game after VTech still mattered last year. In prior years, every game after VTech would have meant absolutely nothing as far as the NC goes.

In hindsight, yes. But every major conference team with 1 loss thinks they still have a chance to play for a national championship. Unless they're in the ACC.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

We asked a committee to make studied opinions. A logical case could have been made for Baylor and TCU. A gut test said Ohio State had earned their shot and/or would make the more compelling entry. Turned out it was the smart choice. Football sense carried the day.

And while FSU might not have passed everyone's gut test, there is simply no way the undefeated defending National Champion gets left out of a four team playoff.

 

[Redux]

We asked a committee to make studied opinions. A logical case could have been made for Baylor and TCU. A gut test said Ohio State had earned their shot and/or would make the more compelling entry. Turned out it was the smart choice. Football sense carried the day.

And while FSU might not have passed everyone's gut test, there is simply no way the undefeated defending National Champion gets left out of a four team playoff.

Exactly. Ohio State had more wins total via extra championship game. A game they won in destructive fashion. TCU and Baylor needed their conference to go to bat for them and it failed them.

FSU was a lock with an unbeaten record. Regular season matters.

 

[Mavric]

To expand. I think logically it should have been

1. FSU

2. OREGON (they avenged their only loss, no one else did)

3. Bama

4. Baylor. (Loss to west VA better than osu's VA tech)

TCU should have never been ahead of Baylor due to head to head. Ohio state had the worst loss of anyone and just lost a starting qb.

To me the playoff failed in the selection process last year.

And thus the problem with a four-team playoff. The team that was far and away the best team at the end of the year is left out because of a slip-up at the beginning of the year after losing their starting QB in camp. We're stuck trying to compare wins and losses with basically no common opponents.

I don't think it failed. It just didn't agree with your opinion.

So, now we're saying the regular season doesn't matter? Isn't this the argument that was made for decades as to why there wasn't a playoff at the D1 level? Coach T's picks are exactly how I would have picked them, but I wouldn't have given FSU the overall #1. If we go back to the way things used to be, Ohio State doesn't end up as the NC. There were a lot of years in there back in the late 80's and early 90's where Florida State was the hottest team in the country at season's end but had one loss earlier in the season to Miami by a missed field goal. They never ended up as NC. I'm really not sure we want to argue about when the loss occurred during the season. The way things are, Ohio State shouldn't have been in the playoff.

I've always advocated an 8 team playoff. Last year is a great example of what happens when you have too small of a sample size. Without expanding the playoff, we're left with just as bigof cluster as we had with the BCS.

Last year was far, far from as bad as the BCS would have been. Without the playoff, it would have been Alabama and Florida State in the National Championship game. Both those teams got destroyed in the semifinals. So until now - yes, all the way back to the 80s and 90s - it was mostly who was a little bit luckier than everyone else and was undefeated or was considered to have the best loss. If Matt Davidson doesn't come up with that catch in Missouri does that mean that Nebraska all of the sudden wasn't the best team that year? Because of one play?

It doesn't devalue the regular season. It makes it so that we aren't arguing as much over how much each game should matter - was this a better win that that, was that a worse loss than that. There are not enough common opponents to really know how much better one team is than another. Last year Florida State went undefeated in probably the weakest P5 conference. They "deserved" to be in the playoff as the lone unbeaten team. But that doesn't make them the best team - as we definitely found out. But it's impossible to know how they would have fared against Alabama's schedule. Or Oregon's. Or even TCU's or Ohio State's. So a playoff settles these debates on the field.

The regular season most definitely still matters. As we saw last year, one loss CAN take you out of it. So you still obviously have to win every game to guarantee yourself a spot. But one loss doesn't necessarily take you out of it.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Last year was far, far from as bad as the BCS would have been. Without the playoff, it would have been Alabama and Florida State in the National Championship game. Both those teams got destroyed in the semifinals.

Exactly....and we would be hearing now how the SEC and Florida State are obviously light years ahead of everyone else bla bla bla going into this year....when that obviously wasn't true last year.

 

[Redux]

Last year was far, far from as bad as the BCS would have been. Without the playoff, it would have been Alabama and Florida State in the National Championship game. Both those teams got destroyed in the semifinals.

Exactly....and we would be hearing now how the SEC and Florida State are obviously light years ahead of everyone else bla bla bla going into this year....when that obviously wasn't true last year.

Bingo. Alabama likely crushes FSU, and we start the whole 7 straight BS SEC ego all over again.

 

[DomiNUs]

Last year was far, far from as bad as the BCS would have been. Without the playoff, it would have been Alabama and Florida State in the National Championship game. Both those teams got destroyed in the semifinals.

Exactly....and we would be hearing now how the SEC and Florida State are obviously light years ahead of everyone else bla bla bla going into this year....when that obviously wasn't true last year.

Would be hearing that about the SEC. eSECpn absolutely hates FSU for some reason.

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

The 64 team playoff is pointless discussing, never gonna happen. The conferences are not going to agree to take on extra teams and just dissolve an entire conference or 4 to do a 64 team regional basketball style tournament.

You are thenone who kept bringing up the conference wins. Ohio State had a 9-0 record in conference. TCU was 8-1. Advantage Buckeyes.

You say conference titles shouldnt decide teams. Alabama, Oregon, Ohio State and FSU all won their conferences via an extra championship game. TCU split the conference title with a team they beat in regular season. Advantage Buckeyes.

Losses matter. Okay fine. TCU losing to WVU is slightly better than Ohio State losing to VaTech. But tOSU lost in week 2 I believe. Then they roared back with a backup QB. Then they had to start a 3rd QB whose first 3 starts were a conference championship win, a semifinall playoff win, and a national championship. If we cant count wins in post season its a tie, otherwise, advantage Buckeyes.

TCU was far more worthy than FSU but FSU didn't technically lose. They played like crap against ND no matter your opinion. TCU deserved it more but their conference didn't help them and they were left out.

Again, your facts are off. TCU lost to Baylor. Not West Va.Baylor lost to West Va

I'm typing this out on the run at work, give me a break. Also why my assuption you were pushing for a 64 team playoff, Im skimming at points Ill admit. I also just paid $171 bucks for a damn tux rental so my heads not right.But Im sitting down on break now, so ready thyself.

Yes TCU best WVU by 1 point where as Baylosr lost to them by like 14. Thats the thing. Baylor was the best team TCU played all year, and they lost. Two of the nations top offenses, and TCU's was a touch short. They win that game, they are in. No question. The Big 12 was their undoing not the comittee. The Big 12 awarded a co championship to Baylor and TCU even though the head to head should have given it to Baylor. But TCU was still ahead in the poll and would have been in had Ohio State not stomped Wiscy, or the Yellowjackets beat FSU.

FSU was a play or four away from being a fairly average team. I didn't get to watch much of them last year, but when I did it was nowhere near the 2013 caliber team they fielded. Like I said, FSU was defending national champion. They were undefeated. They got in by default, I promise you that. Anything besides a perfect record and they are easily outside the top 4.

Ohio State lost early to a vanilla VaTech team. Thats on them. But they rebounded in a big way and continually over powered the rest of their opponents. I mean think about it, if you are on the committee watching tOSU blowout Wisconsin in the title game while TCU and Baylor sit at home waiting for the final rankings, what would you do?

The body of work, the conference championships, and the W/L record is what played into the final 4 choices. They got it right.

But the commitee did not tie themselves to that logic 'your best win trumps your worst loss.' So they are free to reverse themselves the next time a top market team is battling for a slot.

 

[Redux]

The beauty of the comittee over a computer system is the advantage of the eye test. They don't have to stick to one guideline every year. They watch the top teams, they know. And as long as it stays pure it is a far better way than a computer statistic.

Really the only handcuffing I can think of are these:

SEC champ is a lock to get in.

Defending national champ gets in with perfect record.

If there is a dispute between 4 and 5, which one lost worse and when did the loss happen? If you lost early it will be forgiven more than a late loss.

 

[Red Five]

The beauty of the comittee over a computer system is the advantage of the eye test. They don't have to stick to one guideline every year. They watch the top teams, they know. And as long as it stays pure it is a far better way than a computer statistic.

Really the only handcuffing I can think of are these:

SEC champ is a lock to get in.

Defending national champ gets in with perfect record.

If there is a dispute between 4 and 5, which one lost worse and when did the loss happen? If you lost early it will be forgiven more than a late loss.

SEC Champ is not a lock. Say a 9-3 Tennessee beats a 12-0 Alabama. In that case, Alabama has a better chance of making it in than the SEC Champ Tennessee.

 

[Redux]

The beauty of the comittee over a computer system is the advantage of the eye test. They don't have to stick to one guideline every year. They watch the top teams, they know. And as long as it stays pure it is a far better way than a computer statistic.

Really the only handcuffing I can think of are these:SEC champ is a lock to get in.

Defending national champ gets in with perfect record.

If there is a dispute between 4 and 5, which one lost worse and when did the loss happen? If you lost early it will be forgiven more than a late loss.

SEC Champ is not a lock. Say a 9-3 Tennessee beats a 12-0 Alabama. In that case, Alabama has a better chance of making it in than the SEC Champ Tennessee.

No in your scenario ESPN would start lobbying for both to be put in.