QB Race

huskerswrkhavoc said:
REDSTEEL said:
zoogies said:
If Zac Lee never starts another game for the team, he will forever be judged by his 2009 season. A season in which the entire offense was banged up at a variety of positions and through several layers of depth, and a season in which he played through an injury at some (bad, bad) advice from an apparently clueless medical staff, and wound up with (I'm quoting EZE on this one) an injury to his throwing arm that is to quarterbacks what an ACL injury is to running backs.

We'll always assume that is the extent of Lee's skillset and performance ability.

REDSTEEL, you're assuming that the "get behind Lee" option involves seeing the same kind of performance we saw last year. Under the circumstances I would argue different.
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In reality I think it has more to do with Watson offense then the QB. This offense has never been competitive against good defenses, unless the team so far ahead that the other team defense lets up IE Oklahoma 2008.
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You just said 2 completely different things. First post you blamed Lee. Now you're blaming Watson. Which is it? Because if you're doing what zoogies said and assuming that the 2009 offense under Lee is the best Lee can do you are way off base.
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Just wondering what your basing Zac Lee prowess off of? I'm taking it off of the only season he's ever played in this division. Are you taking yours off his Juco Experiences or the hope that it was just the injuries? That just as big of a assumption on your part.

The one real problem I have with Lee is that everytime on third down and long and everyone knew it was going to be a pass he would be pointing exactly where he was going to curl up and fall down.

I'm kind of hoping that Nebraska finds a QB that can scramble and get himslf out of bad playcallings by Watson.

So in conclusion put a QB in a bad offense that's either afraid to take a hit or is willing to put himself ahead of the team when in reality knows that he's hurt and ineffective but doesnt want to lose his starting spot the blames like 40/60.

Before the appoligist come out and blame the clueless medical staff and trainers think about this. If your a QB and have half the arm strength and can verily grip a the ball like you did before the injury why unless your afraid to lose the starting spot would you keep playing. That has to be some ego to think that even half as good as you used to be that your team is still better having you as the qb, then three healthy qb's that are behind you.

 
Lee did not have 3 healthy QBs behind him, and he also didn't have half the arm strength. Less control, maybe, but I don't think it was arm strength that was the main thing affected. Even with less control on his throws, he was ahead of a guy that wasn't ready yet in true freshman Cody Green. Who are the other three healthy QBs behind him?

The coaches knew about his injury, and it was their decision to start him, not his. And now Lee's being criticized for having a big ego? I think if anything, his problem is that it's not big enough.

 
zoogies, his problem is that he's just not that good enough. He's a tough kid who gives his all! I really respect that. He's just not a playmaker. That's all.

Sure, it's "possible" he could improve his throwing dramatically this year. But even "if" so, he still can't run the ball with any authority and so we're looking at choosing Tmart or Green for having a real running threat or Lee for a real passing threat. It's certainly possible that Green ot Tmart could throw as well as Lee runs as that's not saying much at all.

There's lots of indications that imply Bo likes a real running threat at qb. If true, that's just not in Lee's capacity.

Lastly, looking at next year's schedule it wouldn't hurt at all to have a returning starter at qb for the Big10, wouldn't you agree? It will be brutal enough even with having that.

 
Wow, this season is shaping up to have the most divided fan base since the pre-Pelini days. I'm not even quite sure how we got to here - last time we saw the team in a game they were routing Arizona. Those were happier times.

 
Last season was pretty dang divided when the QB controversy came around...it's all good, as long as we realize we're all fans, just with different opinions.

Some more right than others! chuckleshuffle Kidding, kidding.

Sure, it's "possible" he could improve his throwing dramatically this year. But even "if" so, he still can't run the ball with any authority and so we're looking at choosing Tmart or Green for having a real running threat or Lee for a real passing threat. It's certainly possible that Green ot Tmart could throw as well as Lee runs as that's not saying much at all.

There's lots of indications that imply Bo likes a real running threat at qb. If true, that's just not in Lee's capacity.

Lastly, looking at next year's schedule it wouldn't hurt at all to have a returning starter at qb for the Big10, wouldn't you agree? It will be brutal enough even with having that.
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bshirt, you make it sound like it's anyone's guess if Lee will improve his throwing if he doesn't have an injured arm. I don't think that's a wild guess at all, I think that's almost assured. So to call that an "if"...is pretty unfair. Taylor coming along in the passing game - something most are more than willing to just accept - is the big "if".

You have to ask yourself what is more important in a QB. Throwing or running. This is an argument that seems to get no traction with Nebraska fans because of our history, but we're talking about QUARTERBACK here. We have Helu, Rex, and DTray that can carry the ball 35 times a game. 40 times a game if we ask them to. That won't even leave room for 30 pass attempts (except in blowout cupcake games), which isn't inordinately high to begin with.

Football's all about getting your playmakers to make plays with the ball. Martinez carrying the ball 15 times a game means Helu, Rex, and Dtray carry it less. Now,for those 10-15 carries Martinez gets, is he going to get more ypc than Helu, Rex, and Dtray? Significantly more enough to justify the lack of consistency in the passing game?

Next year's returning starter is something I don't buy at all. If we know anything, Bo preaches competition at every position. Who is to say Brion Carnes doesn't challenge for the position next year? You're making a decision that makes sacrifices this year for next year when a) we should be having a QB competition next year with Green, Carnes, and Taylor, and B) we are set up to win this year.

 
Husker_x said:
My understanding of the Dillard situation last year must be missing something, because as far as I remember, he was not in playing shape and was (understandably) put at the back of the line until he got his head on straight. There's Hatfield/McCoy and then there's reasonable expectations. I don't know what Bo's deal is with Lee––assuming there even is one––except for the fact that he's not Tommie Frazier with the option and never will be. See Holiday Bowl performance for an answer to that.
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Dillard got into some arguments with a certain coach (not Bo) and was out of shape. He was demoted to something like 4th string going into the Gator Bowl.

Dillard got threatened of being released from his scholly unless he turned it around. Not only did Dilly work his arse off under Dobson for winter conditioning, the guy put in an insane amount of film study during the winter/spring. Dillard knew this was his last chance to make the NFL, and it showed in his effort. The guy did everything humanly imaginable to get his spot back with his work off the field, and his play on the field.

But for some reason, the coaches decided to carry their grudge over into the season, even though Dillard did everything asked of him. If Fisher and Compton had looked even average in run defense, it's likely Dillard would never have gotten his chance last season.

 
zoogies said:
Last season was pretty dang divided when the QB controversy came around...it's all good, as long as we realize we're all fans, just with different opinions.

Some more right than others! chuckleshuffle Kidding, kidding.

Sure, it's "possible" he could improve his throwing dramatically this year. But even "if" so, he still can't run the ball with any authority and so we're looking at choosing Tmart or Green for having a real running threat or Lee for a real passing threat. It's certainly possible that Green ot Tmart could throw as well as Lee runs as that's not saying much at all.

There's lots of indications that imply Bo likes a real running threat at qb. If true, that's just not in Lee's capacity.

Lastly, looking at next year's schedule it wouldn't hurt at all to have a returning starter at qb for the Big10, wouldn't you agree? It will be brutal enough even with having that.
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bshirt, you make it sound like it's anyone's guess if Lee will improve his throwing if he doesn't have an injured arm. I don't think that's a wild guess at all, I think that's almost assured. So to call that an "if"...is pretty unfair. Taylor coming along in the passing game - something most are more than willing to just accept - is the big "if".

You have to ask yourself what is more important in a QB. Throwing or running. This is an argument that seems to get no traction with Nebraska fans because of our history, but we're talking about QUARTERBACK here. We have Helu, Rex, and DTray that can carry the ball 35 times a game. 40 times a game if we ask them to. That won't even leave room for 30 pass attempts (except in blowout cupcake games), which isn't inordinately high to begin with.

Football's all about getting your playmakers to make plays with the ball. Martinez carrying the ball 15 times a game means Helu, Rex, and Dtray carry it less. Now,for those 10-15 carries Martinez gets, is he going to get more ypc than Helu, Rex, and Dtray? Significantly more enough to justify the lack of consistency in the passing game?

Next year's returning starter is something I don't buy at all. If we know anything, Bo preaches competition at every position. Who is to say Brion Carnes doesn't challenge for the position next year? You're making a decision that makes sacrifices this year for next year when a) we should be having a QB competition next year with Green, Carnes, and Taylor, and B) we are set up to win this year.
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C'mon zoogies, I'm not saying we should "sacrifice" our seniors. Just that it's one more reason (all other things being equal) his starting is good for NU. I guess I shouldn't have mentioned that as course it's going to get twisted on the internet.

So...carry on.

 
True; it's how you look at it. I see it as taking on the freshman negatives this season so that next season will be better; you see it as there Taylor starting this season is a positive regardless - is that fair to say? I think we both agree that if Zac starting this season produces more wins than Taylor, then it's not worth it...yes? Agree to disagree on whether that statement is true or not.

However, supposing Taylor starting this season is better for us, flat out, wins-losses and so on. Does that mean he's the anointed starter for next season? Unless that's the case, I don't see the benefit to this - when there's a chance that we could be starting someone else at QB anyway.

All I'm saying is, though it may be an interesting way to look at things, it is probably one of the smallest factors and probably never enters a coach's mind, from a strategic point of view. It's one of those things that if the benefit comes, you take it, but you wouldn't go even a step out of the way to try to get to that situation. I think that's a more balanced way of putting it than my initial response.

 
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At this point in the discussion, i dont care who starts.

We have a healthy line this year, with added deapth. Remember, it all starts up front. The Oline can make any QB have an easier day in the running and passing game.

We have 3 battle tested and healthy backs who have all shown great potential. They will help with play action for the QB.

We have experience at WR and will see more consistancy from them this year.

This make life easier on whichever QB is starting or seeing playing time.

GBR

 
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My dads cousin is a big $$$ booster in the alum, his rumor is Bo doesn't like Zac as a person somewhat like the Whisenhunt/Leinart ordeal. My moneys on Tmart gets the start.

 
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Any one have any news on how Bronson Marsh is doing? I herd bo likes him as a SAFTEY? I hope thats not so , It would be dumb if he didnt get a shot a QB hes a game changer from what i seen anyways he broke frosts records ,I think he was the 2009 Gatorade Player of the Year in Nebraska how often does nebraska have a gatorade player of the year as a QB? Prolly not very often i bet. Any ways iam just happy the season is comming and I hope the holiday bowl was a good thing and not just a tease because of it being a bowl game lol :clap

 
zoogies said:
True; it's how you look at it. I see it as taking on the freshman negatives this season so that next season will be better; you see it as there Taylor starting this season is a positive regardless - is that fair to say? I think we both agree that if Zac starting this season produces more wins than Taylor, then it's not worth it...yes? Agree to disagree on whether that statement is true or not.

However, supposing Taylor starting this season is better for us, flat out, wins-losses and so on. Does that mean he's the anointed starter for next season? Unless that's the case, I don't see the benefit to this - when there's a chance that we could be starting someone else at QB anyway.

All I'm saying is, though it may be an interesting way to look at things, it is probably one of the smallest factors and probably never enters a coach's mind, from a strategic point of view. It's one of those things that if the benefit comes, you take it, but you wouldn't go even a step out of the way to try to get to that situation. I think that's a more balanced way of putting it than my initial response.
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Oh sure, I agree completely. And I agree that he's not the starter for sure the next year.

Thanks zoogies. That's it.....it's just a nice little extra "bonus" is what I meant.

No big deal, we just don't agree who helps us the best "now" over the course of this season. If Tmart screws the pooch in a big way I promise to eat whatever crow you serve. But if he tears things up, learns quickly, we have a great year "and" sets us up as well as possible for next year's vicious gauntlet.....well, nothing's too good for the BigRedMachine, right?

 
newearthhusker said:
What is this “grudge” that is being held against Zac Lee by the coaching staff? Just wondering. :dunno
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well, several years ago his nickname was princess. does that help? there's always been a questioning, if you will, of zac's fortitude and toughness.

 
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