Quarterback Competiton!

Again do we really need another thread leading to the knocking of our players, their families and their character. Please close this before it gets rolling again. We did enough damage with the last one.

 
Taylor is a once in a decade type of talent the thing is does he have the cognitive ability to go with it. No doubt the best QB on the roster is Taylor overall despite that strange throwing motion. Anyhow is it football season yet?

I'm afraid the Lemur got into the Pudding Pops.

 
I'm about 95 percent sure that Martinez is going to be our starter in the fall. He has the most experience of the quarterbacks, we have heard this offense fits him better than any other quarterback and when healthy he is the most athletic quarterback we have, at least in my opinion.

A lot can happen between now and September, and I know some of you have been proponents of the scenario where Carnes overtakes Martinez similarly to the way Martinez overtook Lee. The two situations were very different. Lee was coming off of a significant surgery and was not as athletically gifted as Martinez. Also, I think the coaches valued an athletic Martinez that will make freshman mistakes over a not-so-athletic Lee that doesn't really have game changing potential the way Martinez does.

The only way Carnes overtakes Martinez is in the mental side of the game. Athletically speaking, and when healthy, Martinez has Carnes beat. Martinez isn't the world's greatest passer, neither is Carnes, but Carnes won't overtake Martinez simply because he throws a better ball. Furthermore I'd think Martinez would really have to have nagging injury issues for Carnes to overtake him.

And before any of that can even take place Carnes would still have to pass a more experienced guy in Green. Green hasn't panned out the way Nebraska fans hoped, but he's still probably got a leg up on Carnes because of his experience. Carnes overtaking Green for the #2 spot is a far more likely scenario right now over Carnes being the #1.

I'm thinking the coaches feel that a healthy Martinez, in an offense tailored to fit his abilities, is ahead of a redshirt freshman who hasn't played a snap of division one football.

 
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Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
irieboy8 said:
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
For the record, Kody Spano was the 10th ranked dual-threat quarterback in his class when we recruited him. He is a runner.
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thats before his knees were shredded like a repressed catholic girl on prom night.........
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The OP said "wasn't a scrambler before the injuries, and definitely won't be now."
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Irie wasn't talking about the OP, he was responding to your statement that "[spano] is a runner."

 
Enhance89 said:
I'm about 95 percent sure that Martinez is going to be our starter in the fall. He has the most experience of the quarterbacks, we have heard this offense fits him better than any other quarterback and when healthy he is the most athletic quarterback we have, at least in my opinion.

A lot can happen between now and September, and I know some of you have been proponents of the scenario where Carnes overtakes Martinez similarly to the way Martinez overtook Lee. The two situations were very different. Lee was coming off of a significant surgery and was not as athletically gifted as Martinez. Also, I think the coaches valued an athletic Martinez that will make freshman mistakes over a not-so-athletic Lee that doesn't really have game changing potential the way Martinez does.

The only way Carnes overtakes Martinez is in the mental side of the game. Athletically speaking, and when healthy, Martinez has Carnes beat. Martinez isn't the world's greatest passer, neither is Carnes, but Carnes won't overtake Martinez simply because he throws a better ball. Furthermore I'd think Martinez would really have to have nagging injury issues for Carnes to overtake him.

And before any of that can even take place Carnes would still have to pass a more experienced guy in Green. Green hasn't panned out the way Nebraska fans hoped, but he's still probably got a leg up on Carnes because of his experience. Carnes overtaking Green for the #2 spot is a far more likely scenario right now over Carnes being the #1.

I'm thinking the coaches feel that a healthy Martinez, in an offense tailored to fit his abilities, is ahead of a redshirt freshman who hasn't played a snap of division one football.
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You say --- "The only way Carnes overtakes Martinez is in the mental side of the game." I say --- on what basis do we know this? Carnes has never seen the field and how much of TMart's problems are "mental"? Who knows?

You say --- "Athletically speaking, and when healthy, Martinez has Carnes beat." I say --- who knows Carnes has not played. What little we have seen shows he is athletic, but...

You say --- "Martinez isn't the world's greatest passer, neither is Carnes" --- I say --- Carnes is much better a passer --- even though we have seen little, we have seen enough, he is a better passer.

You say --- "but Carnes won't overtake Martinez simply because he throws a better ball." I say --- how do you know?

You say --- "Furthermore I'd think Martinez would really have to have nagging injury issues for Carnes to overtake him." I say --- I agree... but he has had nagging injuries, he seems still to have nagging injuries, and the likelihood is high (though not certain) that he will still have nagging injuries when the season starts. Thus, it will not at all be unlikely to see Carnes in a as a QB. That said....

I'd say that a healthy/semi-healthy TMart almost certainly starts the season and, if he stays healthy/semi-healthy he'll have a 1/2 season to produce ... if he is still healthy/semi-healthy at mid season but does not produce, expect to see Carnes. If he remains healthy/semi-healthy and produces, he continues as starter. Final option is that his nagging injuries (or new injuries, if inflicted with such) places Carnes at the helm early rather than later.

In any event, Carnes is a very, very important person on this team. He is next in line and the possibility that TMart stays hurt and/or does not produce is pretty high... we need a developed #2 because he will be precariously close to #1.

 
OK, semantics. Spano is a dual-threat QB, or I guess I would add "when healthy." I guess it's closer to the 'passer' end of the spectrum than some of the elite runners that are really pure athletes, but qualified as "dual threat QB". You look at Aaron Rodgers - he's fast, he's clearly a good scrambler and runner, but he is obviously a different kind of dual threat from Vince Young.

Similarly I guess you could contest anyone who said, or has said for the past few months, "Taylor Martinez is a guy with elite speed", because he's been injured. The difference I suppose, is Spano might not get back to the point where he can be much of a football player at all, and Taylor will probably recover to an adequate amount.

But all Landlord was responding to was the notion that Spano came here to be a WCO pocket passer and wasn't a scrambler before his injuries.

 
zoogies said:
OK, semantics. Spano is a dual-threat QB, or I guess I would add "when healthy." I guess it's closer to the 'passer' end of the spectrum than some of the elite runners that are really pure athletes, but qualified as "dual threat QB". You look at Aaron Rodgers - he's fast, he's clearly a good scrambler and runner, but he is obviously a different kind of dual threat from Vince Young.

Similarly I guess you could contest anyone who said, or has said for the past few months, "Taylor Martinez is a guy with elite speed", because he's been injured. The difference I suppose, is Spano might not get back to the point where he can be much of a football player at all, and Taylor will probably recover to an adequate amount.

But all Landlord was responding to was the notion that Spano came here to be a WCO pocket passer and wasn't a scrambler before his injuries.
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+1 for consistently putting my arguments more elegantly.

 
All I'm going to say is this. I watched the Spring game DVD this weekend, and there was a night and day difference in receivers being open for Carnes and Kellogg vs Green and Martinez. There were alot of backups playing in the second half, when all the scoring happened.

 
robsker said:
You say --- "The only way Carnes overtakes Martinez is in the mental side of the game." I say --- on what basis do we know this? Carnes has never seen the field and how much of TMart's problems are "mental"? Who knows?
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I thought I made this clear by pointing out athletic abilities. Martinez overtook Lee because of his playmaking ability, but he also had to impress the coaches in more ways than just that. From what we've seen so far Carnes is at best as athletically gifted as Martinez. But even then we haven't seen Carnes in live action. Therefore, Carnes isn't going to overtake Martinez purely on athletic ability. It's going to be because he gotten the mental part down better.

Carnes appears to be a better passer mechanically. But we still haven't seen Carnes against real competition in a live setting. I find it tough to believe that being a better passer is the one reason Carnes overtakes Martinez. Not that you're saying that, of course. Just an observation.

You say --- "Athletically speaking, and when healthy, Martinez has Carnes beat." I say --- who knows Carnes has not played. What little we have seen shows he is athletic, but...
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I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. Carnes hasn't played a snap of division one football and this is a fact.

You say --- "Martinez isn't the world's greatest passer, neither is Carnes" --- I say --- Carnes is much better a passer --- even though we have seen little, we have seen enough, he is a better passer.
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I never said Carnes wasn't better. I said Carnes wasn't the world's greatest passer.

You say --- "but Carnes won't overtake Martinez simply because he throws a better ball." I say --- how do you know?
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If the coaches choose one quarterback purely because of passing ability then I seriously doubt the coaches ability to judge talent and make good decisions. Basing an opinion off of one factor is stupid. When Martinez overtook Lee, Martinez' running ability was a big factor. But the coaches weren't going to put Martinez in solely because of that. They needed a guy who they thought could lead and make throws. Carnes has to impress in more than one area to takeover Martinez and that goes down to the very fibers of judging talent and making depth chart decisions.

You say --- "Furthermore I'd think Martinez would really have to have nagging injury issues for Carnes to overtake him." I say --- I agree... but he has had nagging injuries, he seems still to have nagging injuries, and the likelihood is high (though not certain) that he will still have nagging injuries when the season starts. Thus, it will not at all be unlikely to see Carnes in a as a QB. That said....

I'd say that a healthy/semi-healthy TMart almost certainly starts the season and, if he stays healthy/semi-healthy he'll have a 1/2 season to produce ... if he is still healthy/semi-healthy at mid season but does not produce, expect to see Carnes. If he remains healthy/semi-healthy and produces, he continues as starter. Final option is that his nagging injuries (or new injuries, if inflicted with such) places Carnes at the helm early rather than later.

In any event, Carnes is a very, very important person on this team. He is next in line and the possibility that TMart stays hurt and/or does not produce is pretty high... we need a developed #2 because he will be precariously close to #1.
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I agree with this.

 
But the coaches weren't going to put Martinez in solely because of that. They needed a guy who they thought could lead and make throws.
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Really don't know about this.

I do think Taylor's game-breaking running ability was something that overrode all the other factors, none of which really pointed in his favor.

 
zoogies said:
But the coaches weren't going to put Martinez in solely because of that. They needed a guy who they thought could lead and make throws.
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Really don't know about this.

I do think Taylor's game-breaking running ability was something that overrode all the other factors, none of which really pointed in his favor.
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It's just speculation and an observation. You're welcome to disagree, but I think Martinez had to at least be sufficient in other areas in order to get the nod.

 
I think the fact that he was on the Heisman radar and won more post-season honors/awards than all of our last four QBs combined as a freshman points toward the reason he initially got the job, too.

 
All i remember is Carnes rolling out of the pocket and rifling a 15 to 20 yard ball on the money, that was close to the sideline. I don't carer who you are throwing against, that is impressive. I think he has all the potential in the world to unseat Martinez if he picks up the playbook well enough.

 
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