Quarterback Competiton!
- Thread starter The Mustache
- Start date
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
And you don't remember Martinez doing the same thing to BK earlier in the game?
Was that also impressive, and if not, why not?
The Maudfather
All-American
Martinez (barring injury) will take the first snap of the season.
/thread
/thread
Hujan
Starter
Honest question for the Taylor diehards:
Do you believe Taylor will once again be in a position where he is consistently ripping off +50-yard runs a la WKU, Washington, and K State? Serious question here.
Put differently, I guess I am wondering whether you guys believe Taylor has settled into a place where he may get shorter runs with his feet on a fairly regular basis, but that the long runs we saw in the early part of the 2010 season are largely a thing of the past, or believe he will pick up right where he left off at K State. Now, before you answer, I think a Taylor who is a threat to pick up 5-10 yards with his feet is still a dangerous quarterback.
For my part, I believe that much of the "Martinez mystique" which lead to the Heisman buzz and Freshman All American was a product of those highlight-reel runs, and I further believe that those are almost entirely a thing of the past, both because Taylor may never regain and maintain 100% health and because defenses from this point forward are acutely aware of that possibility.
I am honestly curious whether those of you who believe Martinez is and will remain the starter have that mindset because you truly believe he will still be ripping off those sensational runs in 2011 and beyond, or have that mindset even though you've resigned yourself that those sensational days are pretty much behind him.
Do you believe Taylor will once again be in a position where he is consistently ripping off +50-yard runs a la WKU, Washington, and K State? Serious question here.
Put differently, I guess I am wondering whether you guys believe Taylor has settled into a place where he may get shorter runs with his feet on a fairly regular basis, but that the long runs we saw in the early part of the 2010 season are largely a thing of the past, or believe he will pick up right where he left off at K State. Now, before you answer, I think a Taylor who is a threat to pick up 5-10 yards with his feet is still a dangerous quarterback.
For my part, I believe that much of the "Martinez mystique" which lead to the Heisman buzz and Freshman All American was a product of those highlight-reel runs, and I further believe that those are almost entirely a thing of the past, both because Taylor may never regain and maintain 100% health and because defenses from this point forward are acutely aware of that possibility.
I am honestly curious whether those of you who believe Martinez is and will remain the starter have that mindset because you truly believe he will still be ripping off those sensational runs in 2011 and beyond, or have that mindset even though you've resigned yourself that those sensational days are pretty much behind him.
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knapplc
International Man of Mystery
Neither those who "believe" he will rip off those runs nor those who "believe" he won't have anything to go on. Nobody knows how his body will heal. He may pick up against TennChatt where he started last year against W. Kentucky, or he may never have that top gear available again.
It's not a matter of supporting the guy. We've seen what he can do healthy. The question is simply, can he regain that health and if he does, can he do what he did initially for a whole season?
Nobody knows the answer to that question, and whether you say he can or he can't, you're basing it off pure conjecture, nothing more.
CornfedChris
Four-Star Recruit
Bo Pelini = Expect the unexpected.
Hujan
Starter
Knap,
You are 100% right, it's pure guesswork. Still, I am curious where people fall. In my view, there are really only three camps to be in regarding Taylor:
1). He will be an effective Husker QB, in large part because he will continue to break for long runs on a fairly regular basis;
2). He will still be an effective Husker QB due in large part to his other attributes even though he probably won't be breaking long runs very often anymore.
3). He won't be an effective Husker QB because, whether due to injury or other teams' scouting or both, he is no longer the same threat to break long runs and does not have other skills to compensate.
(I guess it's possible someone could believe he is still capable of K State-like runs and won't be an effective QB, but that seems unlikely,)
So, understanding we are all guessing, I am curious where people fall on that spectrum. I am undecided between 2 and 3, with a slight lean to 3.
What you think, knap?
You are 100% right, it's pure guesswork. Still, I am curious where people fall. In my view, there are really only three camps to be in regarding Taylor:
1). He will be an effective Husker QB, in large part because he will continue to break for long runs on a fairly regular basis;
2). He will still be an effective Husker QB due in large part to his other attributes even though he probably won't be breaking long runs very often anymore.
3). He won't be an effective Husker QB because, whether due to injury or other teams' scouting or both, he is no longer the same threat to break long runs and does not have other skills to compensate.
(I guess it's possible someone could believe he is still capable of K State-like runs and won't be an effective QB, but that seems unlikely,)
So, understanding we are all guessing, I am curious where people fall on that spectrum. I am undecided between 2 and 3, with a slight lean to 3.
What you think, knap?
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knapplc
International Man of Mystery
You can't answer that question, because you have no idea how he's going to heal. The answer will only come six games into the season after we've played Washington, Wiscy and Ohio State and have some time to look at the results. Without that foreknowledge every single answer is pure speculation. How could you support your answer?
You can guess #1, and say we saw what he did healthy last year, and healthy this year he should be the same.
You can guess #2, presuming that he develops other quarterback-like skills so that, despite his never-quite-healed lower extremities (for argument's sake), he succeeds.
You can guess #3, presuming that he won't heal properly and never regains his former speed and doesn't develop other quarterback-like skills.
Each answer is completely unsupportable, rife with caveats.
I'd love to give you an answer, Hujan, but my palantír is at the shop.
Interesting thing, though - the answer one gives (if one dares to give an answer) will more reflect the personal feelings they have for Martinez than any actual fact. Based on past conversations I'm sure most of us could answer for most of the rest of us, presuming we've been paying attention and not just typing at each other.
You can guess #1, and say we saw what he did healthy last year, and healthy this year he should be the same.
You can guess #2, presuming that he develops other quarterback-like skills so that, despite his never-quite-healed lower extremities (for argument's sake), he succeeds.
You can guess #3, presuming that he won't heal properly and never regains his former speed and doesn't develop other quarterback-like skills.
Each answer is completely unsupportable, rife with caveats.
I'd love to give you an answer, Hujan, but my palantír is at the shop.
Interesting thing, though - the answer one gives (if one dares to give an answer) will more reflect the personal feelings they have for Martinez than any actual fact. Based on past conversations I'm sure most of us could answer for most of the rest of us, presuming we've been paying attention and not just typing at each other.
PaulCrewe
Heisman Trophy Winner
Jesus, I guess I'll throw the curveball into this fire. I say Rex takes the first snap out of the wildcat with Jamal and Heard flanking him. HAHA
You see the key to all these QB threads is to think outside the box and to out think yourself. Read that in a Shawn Watson's "Offensive Coordinating for Dummies, or Those on a Similar Intellectual Thought Level"
You see the key to all these QB threads is to think outside the box and to out think yourself. Read that in a Shawn Watson's "Offensive Coordinating for Dummies, or Those on a Similar Intellectual Thought Level"
Hujan
Starter
The last part is actually why I'm asking. I have no idea whether you, Saunders, or the other guys who believe in Taylor (note I do not mean this in a derogatory way) would fall into #1 or #2. Similarly, I bet you and Saunders would have put in me in #3, but I am tempted by #2.
Maybe I could attack it from another angle: Would the Taylor fans still be Taylor fans if, hypothetically speaking, you knew that those long runs were a thing of the past? In other words, take away the regular +50-yard runs, do you still buy into the Martinez Mystique?
If you say "no," then your support of Taylor depends on his ability to make those long runs with his feet. If you say "yes," then you believe there is more to him than his ability to make those long runs. And that was what I am trying to isolate, I guess. You're right that whether he can still make those runs is anyone's guess, but the question remains how much your belief in his value as QB for our team depends on his ability to make those plays.
I promise there isn't some "Aha!" thing waiting around the bend for those of you who answer that question.
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knapplc can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his point is that he has no idea about Martinez' recovery and neither do the rest of us. Therefore it's unfair to base any assumption.
And your hypothetical situation makes the argument kind of pointless because it is purely hypothetical. Hypothetically speaking how good would we be if Tom Osborne was still coaching? You can answer that question but it doesn't make for good argument unless you're just trying to have fun.
Personally I'm not sure it's fair to deal in hypotheticals in this type of situation unless you don't really want an honest answer.
Hujan
Starter
I really think you guys are over-thinking this. It's pretty straight-forward:
What I am asking is whether those that think T-Magic is the best man for the job are saying that because of his supposed ability to break long runs on a regular basis, or whether it is mostly because of other aspects of his game (i.e., ability to lead the team, make critical throws, etc.).
All I'm looking for, really, is for those who think he's the guy, how much weight are you placing on his speed and ability to make long runs? 90%? 70%? 40%? It's really not hypothetical at all. When you evaluate Taylor, how much of his value to the team do you attribute to his ability to make those long runs? Simple. Boom. Done.
Martinez is who he is because of his speed and the long runs he had early in his career. Not his arm, not his mechanics, not his pocket presence - none of that. Without those runs early in the year he's not the Martinez people remember today, and it's as simple as that.
Therefore we have to base our opinions on this - Martinez needs his legs to be an effective quarterback for our team. You can't fudge with a quarterback's mechanics this late in the game and I'm a firm believer that accuracy is tough to improve on - you either have it or you don't. Martinez needs to be at least somewhat capable of what he did early last year if he wants to be the starter.
All this said I still think there's a problem with the point you're trying to make. I'm not a Martinez supporter, but it's easy to see what you're getting at. You're wondering if the only reason people support him is because of the runs he put together early in his career that he may or may not be capable of from here out. Yes, many people want Martinez to start because of the runs he had. But I'm not one of those people and it's unfair to assume that's why people want Martinez.
I want the best quarterback for the team to start, regardless of the name or number on the jersey. I've been defending Martinez this off season because people have been using a redshirt freshman's spring game performance as a reason to knock Martinez around. And when you couple that with Martinez' nagging injuries and other questionable quarterback characteristics, it makes for good banter. I would argue several of the pro-Martinez guys aren't really pro-Martinez, they're just trying to point out that (right now) he's the most proven and best quarterback we have in front of a redshirt freshman that we know so little about.
I hope that answered your question.
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Most people who think Martinez will start believe he will start because of the entire package. He makes the offense more dynamic than anyone else. At least last year, a lot of that had to do with his game breaking ability as a runner. But to come back and say, "Well, say he can't do that anymore, than what do you think of him?" is stupid and pointless. We could make up random hypothetical situations about anyone on the team.