Racism - It's a real thing.
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BIGREDIOWAN
Mods
In no way shape or form did I call you lame, I called your post lame and said it was B.S. I stand by that..........
You are again painting things with a broad brush with the bolded as the example above. Now you're trying to say that white folks have a better experience with the police than minorities which just simply isn't necessarily true in that broad of a sense. I am in no way shape or form trying to diminish what some folks are saying in reference to how they're treated by some officers across the country, I'm certain that some of that stuff goes on, but I'm also certain some folks will use any excuse to justify their behavior and slant their interactions with the police so any observer will side with them and sympathize with their poor decision making.
I will argue with ANYONE about the topic if they try to paint this picture "Police are racist." Watching that video, what you're saying is your opinion and in no way should be taken as fact. You simply don't have any idea what would happen if a minority would've been the suspect in this case. You are making an assumption and, most likely, and incorrect assumption at that.
You say you found the video interesting, your post certainly didn't even allow a rational discussion to occur on the matter. It was simply a "fire for effect" type of post IMO which is certainly going to get a response from me as I've shown in the past. Yes, your past posting history on the matter is certainly in my mind when you continue to show the same distaste for police over and over again from what I've observed. So it is you that doesn't seem to want to have an open discussion in the matter and even attempt to see my point of view. I certainly take offense to being painted with a broad brush and will continue to do so until folks stop doing that.
I've acknowledged in the past that law enforcement can always get better and we should constantly be looking for better ways of doing things. However, I've also said that society as a whole needs to understand what it's doing wrong, be willing to have a little self-reflection, and change their behavior for things to get better. This is NOT a one-way street where only one side is at fault for all the wrongs. Law enforcement unfairly gets the blame most of the time and society is losing good cops on a daily basis because of that.
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Enhance
Administrator
I think we always need to be careful about correlating events in different parts of the country involving different groups of people.
Case in point, I think it's pretty disheartening and inappropriate to post a video of officers fighting a white male and indirectly submit it as evidence of racial bias among law enforcement. I'm specifically referencing the Twitter user, but I disagree with Fru's appropriation of it as well. We don't know a thing about those officers or that man. We don't know anything about why that situation unfolded as it did.
Perhaps they are racist officers and a minority man would've caused the situation to unfold differently. Or, perhaps they're really damn good at doing their job and protecting everyone in the community. Context over martyrdom.
Case in point, I think it's pretty disheartening and inappropriate to post a video of officers fighting a white male and indirectly submit it as evidence of racial bias among law enforcement. I'm specifically referencing the Twitter user, but I disagree with Fru's appropriation of it as well. We don't know a thing about those officers or that man. We don't know anything about why that situation unfolded as it did.
Perhaps they are racist officers and a minority man would've caused the situation to unfold differently. Or, perhaps they're really damn good at doing their job and protecting everyone in the community. Context over martyrdom.
F
Fru
Guest
The "Lame" emoji implied that. Fair enough, stand by it. That's your opinion.
I guess I don't know what you mean exactly when you say I'm painting things with a broad brush because I don't recall stating that "All police are XYZ." I am talking about how different people of different races have different experiences with the police. I also gave some examples to speak to that like Betty Shelby and Dylann Roof but you simply refer to it as BS. Stephon Clark gets riddled with bullets for holding a cell phone but Dylann Roof is given a bullet proof vest. That's challenging for me to understand and accept.
Yes, I found the video interesting, the content is rather shocking. I don't see how it doesn't allow for a discussion as we seem to be having one now. I'm open to the subject and a discussion beyond being told everything I post is BS. If you think that so poorly of me and my posts then why engage?
Enhance
Administrator
The discussion about law enforcement and how they interact with the citizenry is a worthy topic, particularly as it relates racial profiling. I believe BRI would agree with that, as well.
But, let me ask why this video serves as sufficient enough evidence to buoy that conversation? What is it proving? What are the details of that arrest? What do we know about those police officers - are they racist, are they not? Have they been accused of racial profiling in previous arrests?
Perhaps there are answers to those questions to explain the video, but presenting that video in that fashion seems wildly disingenuous, no?
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F
Fru
Guest
Please tell me where I said that this video proves anything implicitly. I said it was interesting.
I believe it is interesting because it shows a white male physically assaulting an officer in an extremely violent manner. That white male is not shot. If it proves anything, it proves you can physically attack an officer and not be killed. It proves that you can disobey police orders and not be killed. It proves that you can be behaving belligerently and not be killed. It proves that police can handle a situation without killing someone, even if they're being physically threatened in a violent manner. I wish that kind of courtesy had been shown to Walter Scott, Eric Garner, Stephon Clark and plenty of others.
I specifically compared the video to Betty Shelby, who shot and killed Terence Crutcher, an unarmed black man who had his hands in the air. Charles Kinsey pictured below was laying on his back with his hands in the air, and he still gets perceived as a big enough threat to be shot.
But when a white guy tackles a cop to the ground, he's not perceived as enough of a threat to be shot. I find that challenging to understand and accept.
NUance
New member
I find it interesting that you've invented some assumption I purportedly made. I'm just going by the article I read in the Washington Post: (WP: "And I just left it at that,” Nelson, 23, said.") The WP article also didn't mention any other woman who was given the bathroom code without paying:
Mierin
Donor
Fair enough on the first 2 sentences. Admittedly I was slightly annoyed by "the whole thing could have been avoided if the 2 arrested guys had just" done _blank_ part, because that kind of statement gets used a lot when these things happen. That's where that part of my reply came from. I read the link you posted and the whole thing could have been avoided if the employee had informed them of the policy, or applied the policy the same way to all non-paying customers.
To the rest, Washington Post isn't the only place reporting on this. I had seen in another article (other than the one I quoted) or maybe a post on here that one of the men who got arrested in Philadelphia had asked to use the restroom and had been denied after witnesses had seen another non-paying customer allowed. I had read about it a couple days before this new incident. Here is the same quote again with a link:
http://abc13.com/what-a-witness-says-happened-during-phila-starbucks-arrests/3342444/
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DrunkOffPunch
New member
It’s different people. Just because the officers in your examples used lethal force where it was unnecessary doesn’t mean if the guy in the video was black the same cop would’ve treated him any differently. We should condemn the cops that are racially biased and use unwarranted force but from that video I think it’s exceptionally hard to find evidence of either of those things unless they just weren’t recorded, in which case you should provide further context if there is such. Presenting a cop being assualted by a white guy and insinuating ‘...well what if the guy was black or that the reason the cop doesn’t use lethal force is because the aggressor is white’ is a huge disservice to both the police and people affected by police brutality IMO.
RedDenver
Active member
I'm looking at it the other way, not as an implication that the cops in the video would have acted racist if the guy had been black, but rather that they showed it's possible to NOT shoot people even if they are disobeying police orders or threatening or acting violently. @Fru sums it up pretty well:
Please tell me where I said that this video proves anything implicitly. I said it was interesting.
I believe it is interesting because it shows a white male physically assaulting an officer in an extremely violent manner. That white male is not shot. If it proves anything, it proves you can physically attack an officer and not be killed. It proves that you can disobey police orders and not be killed. It proves that you can be behaving belligerently and not be killed. It proves that police can handle a situation without killing someone, even if they're being physically threatened in a violent manner. I wish that kind of courtesy had been shown to Walter Scott, Eric Garner, Stephon Clark and plenty of others.
I specifically compared the video to Betty Shelby, who shot and killed Terence Crutcher, an unarmed black man who had his hands in the air. Charles Kinsey pictured below was laying on his back with his hands in the air, and he still gets perceived as a big enough threat to be shot.
But when a white guy tackles a cop to the ground, he's not perceived as enough of a threat to be shot. I find that challenging to understand and accept.
DrunkOffPunch
New member
Then why does he stress that the aggressor is white and why put it in a thread about racism if the intent of the post has nothing to with racism but instead excessive force by police? Were it framed in such a thread I don’t feel like we’d be having this argument.
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Fru
Guest
Because people of color don't seem to get the leeway that others do. A white guy swings at a cop and tackles him in the video, doesn't get shot. Walter Scott swings at a cop, runs away and gets bullets in his back.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police
Tamir Rice, a 12 year old black child playing with a toy gun gets shot and killed by police.
http://www.wlky.com/article/louisville-man-arrested-after-firing-gun-at-officers/19649061
Oscar Walters, a 68 year old white man shoots an air rifle at the police after a domestic violence call, and they apprehend him without shooting him.
DrunkOffPunch
New member
I’m not arguing against that. I’m arguing that it’s wrong to use such a broad stroke when calling this a double standard. It’s completely different people wearing the badge. Were it the same cop in the situation the only difference being the race of the suspect, then I’d 100% agree with you.
Danny Bateman
Donor
I appreciate the back and forth on this video. Nobody is making it personal or taking cheap shots about a very heated topic... it's refreshing to see.
Anyway, going to take it in a slightly different direction here, but this is important. This is what electing a Trump, who spends so much of his time implicitly and explicitly demonizing minorities and people who look differently, will get you.
Some really ugly, graphic accounts contained in this story. The racists are crawling out of their holes and out from under their rocks because they feel empowered to express their real feelings to the "other" in America. It's depressing, but it's something we all need to shove back on. Hard.
But sometimes, from the mouths of babes comes the truth. This is from a 10 year old living with his siblings, all black, in an almost exclusively white suburb of Denver:
Anyway, going to take it in a slightly different direction here, but this is important. This is what electing a Trump, who spends so much of his time implicitly and explicitly demonizing minorities and people who look differently, will get you.
Some really ugly, graphic accounts contained in this story. The racists are crawling out of their holes and out from under their rocks because they feel empowered to express their real feelings to the "other" in America. It's depressing, but it's something we all need to shove back on. Hard.
But sometimes, from the mouths of babes comes the truth. This is from a 10 year old living with his siblings, all black, in an almost exclusively white suburb of Denver:
Enhance
Administrator
But it's clear the video isn't just 'interesting' to you, Fru. You're using it as evidence to drive a narrative. I mean, you literally posted three paragraphs to defend yourself and ended it by saying what we know your honest intent is here (in bold). You've also been more explicit in posts since this one. Why beat around the bush?Please tell me where I said that this video proves anything implicitly. I said it was interesting.
I believe it is interesting because it shows a white male physically assaulting an officer in an extremely violent manner. That white male is not shot. If it proves anything, it proves you can physically attack an officer and not be killed. It proves that you can disobey police orders and not be killed. It proves that you can be behaving belligerently and not be killed. It proves that police can handle a situation without killing someone, even if they're being physically threatened in a violent manner. I wish that kind of courtesy had been shown to Walter Scott, Eric Garner, Stephon Clark and plenty of others.
I specifically compared the video to Betty Shelby, who shot and killed Terence Crutcher, an unarmed black man who had his hands in the air. Charles Kinsey pictured below was laying on his back with his hands in the air, and he still gets perceived as a big enough threat to be shot.
But when a white guy tackles a cop to the ground, he's not perceived as enough of a threat to be shot. I find that challenging to understand and accept.
I'm not saying your discussion is wrong to have. What's wrong is the artful misrepresentation.
Second of all, the specific tweet you shared here came from a man who's saying 'if that had been me who attacked the cop (aka a black man), I would've been shot and become another martyr for cop vs. black violence.' I know you know this.
Which leads me back to the points I again raise - why is this video sufficient enough evidence to buoy that conversation? What is it proving? What are the details of that arrest? What do we know about those police officers - are they racist, are they not? Have they been accused of racial profiling in previous arrests? Without knowledge of the answers, the 'interest' in that video smells like a lot of misleading garbage just to stir the pot.
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