Ranking Big 10 coaches - Bo # 7

[kchusker_chris]

On my phone right now. Don't have time for a lengthy response, but to if Dantonio was better don't you think he would have beaten him once?

depends on if you're arguing which has had the better team, or which is the better coach? I thought we were talking coaching here... - flip Dantonio with Bo, and Dantonio is winning 9-10 games every year too

If Bo has Sims, Gholston, and Bell, he doesn't lose to Iowa at home.

Before last year I would have agreed w/ you...lately I'm not so sure. Bo's "defensive genius" took a huge hit in 2012. On the flip side, if Dantonio had Rex, TMart, Bell, Turner, etc...he would have put up more than 16 points at home against Iowa.

 

[kchusker_chris]

depends on if you're arguing which has had the better team, or which is the better coach? I thought we were talking coaching here... - flip Dantonio with Bo, and Dantonio is winning 9-10 games every year too

Except that he hasn't. Half of the time he hasn't.

because he's at Michigan St., not Nebraska. Do I need to put it in crayon for ya?

 

[Landlord]

depends on if you're arguing which has had the better team, or which is the better coach? I thought we were talking coaching here... - flip Dantonio with Bo, and Dantonio is winning 9-10 games every year too

Except that he hasn't. Half of the time he hasn't.

because he's at Michigan St. Do I need to put in in crayon for ya?

So what? Teams are a reflection of their coach. I don't give a whoop where he's at because it can't be proven that it would be any different anywhere else.

 

[kchusker_chris]

So what? Teams are a reflection of their coach. I don't give a whoop where he's at because it can't be proven that it would be any different anywhere else.

None of this can be proven, hense the discussion. If we could prove it there wouldn't be one.

 

[carlfense]

Luck has nothing to do with it; in fact, luck doesn't even exist. There's no such thing.

We won those football games because we were the better team on the nights that we played them. That's it. We should have won them because we did win them, and we could have lost them but we didn't. We won. We deserved to win.

----signed-----

2010 Texas A&M

 

[EZ-E]

On my phone right now. Don't have time for a lengthy response, but to if Dantonio was better don't you think he would have beaten him once?

depends on if you're arguing which has had the better team, or which is the better coach? I thought we were talking coaching here... - flip Dantonio with Bo, and Dantonio is winning 9-10 games every year too

Isn't how good the team is a direct reflection of how good the coach is????

 

[Landlord]

Luck has nothing to do with it; in fact, luck doesn't even exist. There's no such thing.

We won those football games because we were the better team on the nights that we played them. That's it. We should have won them because we did win them, and we could have lost them but we didn't. We won. We deserved to win.

----signed-----

2010 Texas A&M

The only, singular possible anomaly over the last 5 years (68 games). At least 9 of our 16 penalties were legitimate (false starts, illegal formations, etc.) with the only blatant outlier being the roughing the passer that allowed them to get the go ahead field goal. Still, if you can only manage 6 points of offense you're not doing your job or putting yourself in a good position to be a better football team.

 

[carlfense]

Luck has nothing to do with it; in fact, luck doesn't even exist. There's no such thing.

We won those football games because we were the better team on the nights that we played them. That's it. We should have won them because we did win them, and we could have lost them but we didn't. We won. We deserved to win.

----signed-----

2010 Texas A&M

The only, singular possible anomaly over the last 5 years (68 games). At least 9 of our 16 penalties were legitimate (false starts, illegal formations, etc.) with the only blatant outlier being the roughing the passer that allowed them to get the go ahead field goal. Still, if you can only manage 6 points of offense you're not doing your job or putting yourself in a good position to be a better football team.

That was just the first thing that came to mind . . .

I think that if I were a Penn State fan last year I might have a similar (but less egregious) gripe.

 

[kchusker_chris]

Isn't how good the team is a direct reflection of how good the coach is????

Certainly not in it's entirety. If that were the only determining factor of a quality coach then this wouldn't even be up for argument. We'd just go to the rankings. And, likely the top coach of the last 15 years would be Mack Brown. Do you honestly believe that? Or maybe it's partially because Texas has built in advantages. The same kind of advantages that Bo has over Dantonio/Fitz, and Saban/Meyer has over Bo.

 

[EZ-E]

Isn't how good the team is a direct reflection of how good the coach is????

Certainly not in it's entirety. If that were the only determining factor of a quality coach then this wouldn't even be up for argument. We'd just go to the rankings. And, likely the top coach of the last 15 years would be Mack Brown. Do you honestly believe that? Or maybe it's partially because Texas has built in advantages. The same kind of advantages that Bo has over Dantonio/Fitz, and Saban/Meyer has over Bo.

... What???

 

[kchusker_chris]

Isn't how good the team is a direct reflection of how good the coach is????

Certainly not in it's entirety. If that were the only determining factor of a quality coach then this wouldn't even be up for argument. We'd just go to the rankings. And, likely the top coach of the last 15 years would be Mack Brown. Do you honestly believe that? Or maybe it's partially because Texas has built in advantages. The same kind of advantages that Bo has over Dantonio/Fitz, and Saban/Meyer has over Bo.

... What???

you need it in crayon too? :facepalm

 

[EZ-E]

You've back-pedaled so many times its hard to keep all of your arguments straight. What I gather:

1) Just because somebody has a better team doesn't mean that so and so is the better coach

2) You've got to look at the coaches circumstances before making the judgement. Which are those the "excuses" that our fan awe doesn't allow for????

 

[The Dude]

Lets agree on this then. Anderson has inherited a program that has been to 3 straight Rose Bowls and is in far better shape than the one Bo took over. He will be held to the same standard. This is a guy who rightfully shouldn't have low expectations like Bo's first year. Revisiting the original purpose of the thread, who would you put 1-4 and why?

Agreed. At least 7 regular season wins and placing at least 3rd in the division seems to be a perfectly reasonable expectation for Wisconsin this year.

1. Urban Meyer - This is universally agreed upon, yes? His resume speaks for itself. One of the truly elite coaches in college football. If he's not on a list of coaches who have won X number of games per year for Y number of years, well that tells us pretty much everything we need to know about that arbitrary statistic.

2. Brady Hoke - BCS bowl winner, numerous deserved Coach of the Year awards, has been relatively successful at all his coaching stops. Has already gone further at Michigan than Pelini has at Nebraska. Teams show up prepared to play week in and week out. Only real blowout loss at Michigan was against Alabama.

3. Pat Fitzgerald - At a bottom-feeder program but doesn't run a bottom-feeder team. Coaches a team that's usually smaller, slower, and weaker than their opponents but can go toe-to-toe with the big boys most any week because he has them prepared to.

4. Mark Dantonio - Resume comparable to Pelini's. Pelini has the better winning percentage and head-to-head advantage, Dantonio has the conference title and 11-win seasons. He and Pelini are pretty much interchangeable, but I'm giving Dantonio the nod because his teams are usually better prepared. Not as susceptible to blowout losses.

5. Bo Pelini - Good winning percentage. Has won X number of games per year for Y number of years. 3 CCG participation trophies. 0-5 in postseason games over the last 3 years - I wonder how many coaches are on that list.

6-12. Argue amongst yourselves.

Why can 6-12 be argued but 2-5 can't? What has Fitzgerald accomplished, other than an incalculable and fairly arbitrary "more with less" accomplishment? Hoke backdoored into a BCS bowl, sure, but also hasn't won his division and hasn't shown consistency over his short two years, and you said it yourself, Dantonio and Pelini are pretty close, with each having different edges over the other.

They can all be argued, the whole topic is subjective. You're comment about Fitz is why these kinds of rankings exist. It's not like the NFL where there's mandated parity, and it's easy to decipher who the best coaches and GMs are. Nebraska will always have a huge advantage in football over Northwestern. The history, tradition, money, facilities, fan support, ect just isn't comparable at the two places. EZ-E doesn't like to hear it, but there's a built-in double standard. We have higher standards at Nebraska because of what we put into the program. It's a historically elite program. So when a coach overachieves or underachieves in the context of the job he holds, that should be taken into consideration. Obviously I think one is overachieving and one is underachieving, but not substantially in either case. You're right, Fitz hasn't won anything of significance (in the context of his job), but neither has Bo.

Hoke has. At least compared to those two coaches. Compared to Urban, not so much.

 

[The Dude]

On my phone right now. Don't have time for a lengthy response, but to if Dantonio was better don't you think he would have beaten him once?

I definitely took it into consideration. If you want to use it as the tie-breaker, I have no qualms with that.

 

[bradRT]

I;m kind of surprised NEB hasn't made a run at Fitz. Seems like he'd fit the tradition and culture well. Like a nicer, smart Bo Pellni? Of course, he may be pulling a Bobby Bowden at Northwestern, though I doubt it.