No need to rehash this again, but Frank sent the program on a downward spiral that we have never recovered from. It started when he ran out of Osborne recruits. He went 7-7 and the next year, even though they had a winning recored, it was smoke and mirrors. They never beat a team that season with a winning record. The rest is history.
Reading this make me....
- Thread starter Scratchtown
- Start date
VectorVictor
Heisman Trophy Winner
Someone posted elsewhere on these boards that Eichorst was high on Riley when he was out east (at South Carolina, IIRC) years ago, which is why Riley was the first name he perused, and supposedly the only name he interviewed. I would hope this wasn't the case...MichiganDad3 said:
Granted, Riley years ago may have had a potential upside, but that upside is gone, thanks in large part to the staff he assembled.
I still think Riley could succeed if he'd go the CEO route and bring on a highly-skilled, competent OC and DC, not unlike Mack Brown did during his tenure at Texass. And we have the money to go that route and pay seven figures for coordinators if we could get the best. Think about it--folks are worried about how the program projects to fans and players after Bo was shown week after week on national television berating his players. If Riley could just be the public face/overall project manager and bring in competent coordinators to handle the day-to-day coaching, this thing has a chance.
As for Tom Herman, I agree he'd be an excellent hire and has a penchant with doing more with considerably less, not unlike Randy Edsall when he was at UConn. His offensive philosophy jives with our program's philosophy, while updating it for 21st century football, he hires successful coordinators and position coaches, and has recruiting ties in the South.
I guess the question is, do we can Riley next season if he's turning in another .500 or worse performance and try to get Herman to mitigate the damage being done to the program, or do we risk fan apathy and potential collapse by waiting out Scott Frost's tenure at UCF to see if he has what it takes to be a head coach?
After Callahan, Bo, and now Riley trashing up the joint, I don't know how many more years of ineptitude the program can stand before they permanently hemorrhage fans and we become Minnesota 2.0.
No, unfortunately, Riley will be here next year. But with Harvey the Wonder Chancellor gone, Eichorst and Riley will have a very short leash, and the kindling will already be piled up under their collective seats. A .500 or lower W/L record by the end of October will be all the spark needed to set it ablaze.
But let's be honest with ourselves here--Riley is gone in a year or two unless he wins the B1G and contends for a NC quickly.
The question is what I mentioned above: do we keep Riley on as a caretaker of sorts for two years to see if Frost has what it takes, or do we set that kindling on fire next year and get someone like Herman in here now to mitigate the damage?
I think the money would like to do the later, but the fans would like to do the former...?
Last edited by a moderator:
Of course they beat teams with winning records that year. Maybe we do need to rehash, because these are basic facts. You can have your own opinions, but you don't get your own facts.
teachercd
Head Coach
beorach
Special Teams Player
It's too early to judge Herman as a HC after one regular season at a non-P5 school. The Cougar stats are all pretty great, outside passing "D" and total "D," but the toughest teams they played were Memphis and Navy.
It's too early to judge Riley as a Husker coach after one season, too. Offensive production was pretty impressive for this being the kids' first season in a new system but, though the number of fumbles lost went down dramatically, the turnover margin category is still largely woeful (as Dirk Chatelain expounded upon well recently). The defense played well enough against Iowa to get a second win against a top ten team down the stretch of this difficult transition season. TA deserves a lot of the blame for that, given its the picks that are killing us offensively, but the lack of forced turnovers speaks to other issues. We know there have been issues with the kids not being "all 'N.'" We know we don't have the most talented roster in the conference...and the lack of representation on the first and second B1G teams announced recently only underscores that.
I get that people feel that the offensive coaches didn't utilize the talent we have in the best manner...but I don't think it's reasonable to have expected them to try an interim system they aren't familiar with...nor to rely on a running game they don't, arguably with good reason, feel can be a solid foundation. All I can really see as just plain stupid is the lack of rotation on the OL. These coaches have grown accustomed to playing with a talent deficit and tendencies don't change overnight. You can look at time of possession as another indicator. It seems Riley's always trying to shorten games still...but it's just not as boring and obvious as what Bill Callahan did when we played USC years ago.
I started questioning whether Bo was the guy at halftime of the first game against UCLA (shortly after the Miami job talk). I still felt like there might be something wrong with me, though, when friends and family expressed their support for Bo last season. I can't believe how soon Husker fans (?) are ready to quit on the current staff, though, and just hope that phenomenon doesn't poison the well. I don't fault SE for doing something different...even though I'd have thought we'd want to bring in a coach that fit better with respect to the tradition of defense and the running game (also given the weather). On the plus side, this offense should be less boring. I don't know how often I wondered if we were as boring to watch for neutrals as a team like Virginia Tech for years...mostly while grumbling about how they were always on TV along with South Carolina. Getting back to the point, I guess I just don't get how Nebraska fans expected that a name comparable to Harbaugh was going to take the considerable rebuilding job in Lincoln. Mike Gundy wasn't good enough, right? Given that and that I felt we needed a guy with experience at this level, the Riley hire made sense. Why we have no respect for the benefits of staff continuity is another head-scratcher, given the ridiculous payoff we had from TO and company. The odds of any program ever having that kind of dominance again are slim to none and the people who think they could be right around the corner for Nebraska are kidding themselves.
I'm not going away and I'm willing to see if the chance taken by our leadership will pay off. I hope folks who feel like the OP are really few and far between. I like to believe that most of us are more patient and understanding of the realities of today's game...such that we know it's a long road for any team, even under the best of circumstances. Even if the Cornhuskers reach the rarified air of the elite again, there will still be highs and lows to weather for Big Red Nation. The roller coaster ride will be easier if we learn to live together again first.
It's too early to judge Riley as a Husker coach after one season, too. Offensive production was pretty impressive for this being the kids' first season in a new system but, though the number of fumbles lost went down dramatically, the turnover margin category is still largely woeful (as Dirk Chatelain expounded upon well recently). The defense played well enough against Iowa to get a second win against a top ten team down the stretch of this difficult transition season. TA deserves a lot of the blame for that, given its the picks that are killing us offensively, but the lack of forced turnovers speaks to other issues. We know there have been issues with the kids not being "all 'N.'" We know we don't have the most talented roster in the conference...and the lack of representation on the first and second B1G teams announced recently only underscores that.
I get that people feel that the offensive coaches didn't utilize the talent we have in the best manner...but I don't think it's reasonable to have expected them to try an interim system they aren't familiar with...nor to rely on a running game they don't, arguably with good reason, feel can be a solid foundation. All I can really see as just plain stupid is the lack of rotation on the OL. These coaches have grown accustomed to playing with a talent deficit and tendencies don't change overnight. You can look at time of possession as another indicator. It seems Riley's always trying to shorten games still...but it's just not as boring and obvious as what Bill Callahan did when we played USC years ago.
I started questioning whether Bo was the guy at halftime of the first game against UCLA (shortly after the Miami job talk). I still felt like there might be something wrong with me, though, when friends and family expressed their support for Bo last season. I can't believe how soon Husker fans (?) are ready to quit on the current staff, though, and just hope that phenomenon doesn't poison the well. I don't fault SE for doing something different...even though I'd have thought we'd want to bring in a coach that fit better with respect to the tradition of defense and the running game (also given the weather). On the plus side, this offense should be less boring. I don't know how often I wondered if we were as boring to watch for neutrals as a team like Virginia Tech for years...mostly while grumbling about how they were always on TV along with South Carolina. Getting back to the point, I guess I just don't get how Nebraska fans expected that a name comparable to Harbaugh was going to take the considerable rebuilding job in Lincoln. Mike Gundy wasn't good enough, right? Given that and that I felt we needed a guy with experience at this level, the Riley hire made sense. Why we have no respect for the benefits of staff continuity is another head-scratcher, given the ridiculous payoff we had from TO and company. The odds of any program ever having that kind of dominance again are slim to none and the people who think they could be right around the corner for Nebraska are kidding themselves.
I'm not going away and I'm willing to see if the chance taken by our leadership will pay off. I hope folks who feel like the OP are really few and far between. I like to believe that most of us are more patient and understanding of the realities of today's game...such that we know it's a long road for any team, even under the best of circumstances. Even if the Cornhuskers reach the rarified air of the elite again, there will still be highs and lows to weather for Big Red Nation. The roller coaster ride will be easier if we learn to live together again first.
Last edited by a moderator:
StPaulHusker
Banned
Frank probably should not have been fired when he was. But I think it was evident that perhaps the Big 12 was catching up to us and he wasn't going to be the guy to get us back on top.
beorach
Special Teams Player
Frank deserves better than that...and his tenure at Ohio, which was a losing program before he arrived, tells another story. TO's no idiot either, nor would an AD be to trust his judgment. What I always wonder is how much of the problem for Frank was that his assistants were already resting on their laurels (or however you put that). If Nebraska had brought in a new guy, instead of hiring Frank, we'd have lost those defensive and offensive systems we all loved that much earlier. Given the number of folks who still want Paul Johnson, I don't know that it would have gone over any worse than the latest hire. If another big name had been able to channel Nebraska's talent into another system, and we're talking offensively here mainly, I suppose there could be a point there. Bobby Newcombe and Eric Crouch could have done more than run the option, right? I wonder what names were available at that time. It wasn't like it is now...with coaches jumping all over the place every year... p.s. - Fire up the time machine - let's go get Barry Alvarez!
Last edited by a moderator:
Red Five
Heisman Trophy Winner
Not sure using Randy Edsall is the best comp. He got embarrassed when he moved to a real conference.
Can you actually name any of his "successful coordinators and position coaches"? I looked them up, and the only one I knew of was his OC who was fired from Texas.
Here is where those "successful coordinators and position coaches" were in 2014: Utah St, Out of Coaching, Kentucky, La Tech, Texas St, James Madison, Westfield High School, Incarnate Word, New Mexico
TGHusker
Heisman Trophy Winner
The above was an excellent post by Beorach
2 posts above - should have copied it. I have to admit I'm having a more difficult time with this 1st year than I thought I would- maybe because I'm older and waiting for the glory days to return and my days are running shorter! - I'll be 60 Dec 30th - ouch. So I became a young Husker fan under Devaney and suffered wt Tom through all of the close calls of the 1980s - should have won 4 - 5 national championships that decade outside of either sooner magic or the PSU pass and the Miami 2 pt. So my frustration has shown in my posts towards the end of the year. I'll 'right' the ship and start getting more positive as spring comes around - there are some positives that we shouldn't ignore:
1. We do have a good redshirt team coming available - looking forward to seeing the Davis twins.
2. POB - hopefully will pan out and be the QB we need - I say start him as a freshman and speed up the learning curve
3. There should be more buy in by the players this spring and less of the dysfunctional Bo mood hangover
4. The recruiting class while not great yet, should get better by signing day - hopefully more studs will see they have a real opportunity to play quickly (yes that cuts both ways)
5. Next year can only get better
6. Scott Frost will now get HC experience that we all wanted him to get (yes that is a back handed positive but hey - take it for what its worth - we might call on Scott in a few years)
1. We do have a good redshirt team coming available - looking forward to seeing the Davis twins.
2. POB - hopefully will pan out and be the QB we need - I say start him as a freshman and speed up the learning curve
3. There should be more buy in by the players this spring and less of the dysfunctional Bo mood hangover
4. The recruiting class while not great yet, should get better by signing day - hopefully more studs will see they have a real opportunity to play quickly (yes that cuts both ways)
5. Next year can only get better
6. Scott Frost will now get HC experience that we all wanted him to get (yes that is a back handed positive but hey - take it for what its worth - we might call on Scott in a few years)
Last edited by a moderator:
Red Five
Heisman Trophy Winner
StPaulHusker
Banned
I don't disagree with that at all. But since he went into the next year with wholesale changes, I think it would have been prudent to give him 3 years and see what happened.
TGHusker
Heisman Trophy Winner
agree 100% - Wt Bo as DC and new coaches elsewhere, Frank should have gotten at least 2 more years. He may have made it work.
Red Five
Heisman Trophy Winner
I would have been fine with him staying through for 2004 after the purge in 2002.
But many times when those purges happen, its just a matter of time before the other shoe drops. See what Purdue is doing this year.
Last edited by a moderator:
flfmrredfan
Three-Star Recruit
The amount of ignorance displayed in this thead by some NU fans as to Solich's situation is beyond description. I see one poster stated: "it was evident that perhaps the Big 12 was catching up to us and he wasn't going to be the guy to get us back on top." I wonder if this poster bases that statement on the same pixy dust as those who think that if only Riley can get his players in the system, that he will turn NU around, despite the fact that his record points to him being a career .500 head coach.
Solich faced a number of problems, not the least of which was an arrogant AD who undermined/did not support him. He inherited an aging staff, some of whom thought they were a better HC than Solich, and some who did not actively go out on the road to recruit. Solich and that disjointed staff did better than expected. When he reassembled his staff, NU was on it's way back to the top. Unfortunately, as CM husker has pointed out, SPEM had other ideas, and he is the one who, despite his braggadocio on the day he fired Solich, gravitated NU into mediocrity, and below. So, if you are angry at the situation NU football is in, look no farther than SPEM, and Prickman, who enabled him (remember the extension not too long before he was fired?) If it wasn't for SPEM and Prickman, NU would have been the first school with back to back to back 100 wins head coaches.
And for those who wondered who Solich recruited during his tenure as an assistant, does anyone remember Mike Rozier? I'm sure there are more, but that's just the first off the top of my head.
Apparently, critical thinking is no longer taught in public schools.
Solich faced a number of problems, not the least of which was an arrogant AD who undermined/did not support him. He inherited an aging staff, some of whom thought they were a better HC than Solich, and some who did not actively go out on the road to recruit. Solich and that disjointed staff did better than expected. When he reassembled his staff, NU was on it's way back to the top. Unfortunately, as CM husker has pointed out, SPEM had other ideas, and he is the one who, despite his braggadocio on the day he fired Solich, gravitated NU into mediocrity, and below. So, if you are angry at the situation NU football is in, look no farther than SPEM, and Prickman, who enabled him (remember the extension not too long before he was fired?) If it wasn't for SPEM and Prickman, NU would have been the first school with back to back to back 100 wins head coaches.
And for those who wondered who Solich recruited during his tenure as an assistant, does anyone remember Mike Rozier? I'm sure there are more, but that's just the first off the top of my head.
Apparently, critical thinking is no longer taught in public schools.
Last edited by a moderator:
StPaulHusker
Banned
Ahem. I am "that one poster" whom you think believes in pixie dust. What I believe about Riley at this point is irrelevant because he has had one year as coach at Nebraska. If he improves, great. If not, on to the next. I am not in a place that I feel I can evaluate a coach based on one year. I didn't want Pelini gone until about year 5 or so.
With regards to Solich and his AD, we can agree that Pederson was not up to the task of being the AD of Nebraska. That doesn't mean that he was wrong in the overall decision to fire Solich. Timing? Perhaps. Mucking up the hiring process? Yes. Hiring the wrong replacement? Absolutely.
Solich inherited an aging staff that he elected to keep. That's on him. He owns that outright. Did he make necessary changes? Yes. And he should have been given time to see if they would work. In the end, it probably wasn't going to get us anywhere. Of course that, is my opinion. But based on Solich NEVER getting a shot at a major program even though he traveled coast to coast to learn and evaluate from all of the great coaches at the time, he ended up at Ohio........University.
And furthermore, Solich may not have been the HC at Nebraska at all. I believe it is common knowledge that Bill Byrne had his sights set on a young coordinator named Bob Stoops. But Osborne, with his legacy in tow, had some veto power and got his buddy hired instead.
I am sure Frank is a great guy and a good coach. I actually went to the Gophers game this year to cheer him on. I just don't believe he was the right coach to continue the winning traditions of Nebraska.
Is that thinking critically enough for you?