Recent Recruiting Success & Failure

[BigRedBuster]

P.s. Every player would/should always say they need to and can improve. That's a given. The question when assessing performance is not to decide whether improvement is desired but where the existing performance ranks against other benchmarks.

Fine....
I'll use the bench mark as comparing him to himself in the last staff along with TM.

Both amazing athletes that have the ability to do great things. But....both needed or still need to improve their decision making.

Nothing about that is disrespectful. I'm a big fan of both players.

Martinez improved every year. His junior year was quite good and he was off to a great start his senior year.

It's unfair to expect Tom Brady level decision making out of a college QB. Or even college level Andrew Luck. If that's what we need to make this system tick, we are in deep trouble regarding hitting the stated championship goals.

Who has said we need that level?

What QB do we need, if Armstrong hasn't been good enough?

No...I asked you who has said they need that level of play?

I'll wait for your answer.

So what about Ryan Katz' 18 to 11 TD/INT ratio on 355 attempts his first year starting under Riley?

Sure seems better than Tommy's 22 to 16 TD/INT ratio on 402 attempts his first year under Riley, and also sure seems to disagree with your claim several times made that Tommy has performed better than all of Riley's first year starting QBs.

As I've noted over and over, including in that original post, he performed as well, and in most cases better, than other Riley QBs.

Katz was the guy who was a redshirt sophomore his first year starting, had a QB rating just slightly below Armstrongs and ended up transferring as a SR (was benched as a JR for Manion, if I recall).

Maybe I should just repost the original post.

you should because it sure seems like you're moving the goal posts

Not moving them at all. In each measurable category except one, Armstrong was first or second among something like 11 different first year starters under Riley. In the exception, he was 3rd (TD to INT ratio).

Original post is here: http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/78876-change-scheme-or-change-qb/page-2

In relevant part:

As you'll see, Riley has started 11 QBs during his different first year starters during his 15 years as a CFB head coach. A first year starter defined as the first year a player registers at least 150 pass attempts under Riley). Two of his first year starters were a result of the regular starters absence or a position battle (i.e., 1998 and 2012).

Tommys number stack up quite favorably against the other first year starters in Rileys system, including some NFL QBs. He ranked at:

• 2nd most TDs
• 3rd best TD to INT ratio. He was 1 of only 6 first years starters to have more TDs than INTs and ahead of at least two NFL draftees.
• 2nd best QB rating. The only one who ranked ahead was a part time one-year starter (see below), though several were in the same proximity.
• He also posted a 6-6 record, which would be average among the first year starters, even though his whole team was new to the system. In similar situations of 1998 and 2003, first year starters went 11-13

This despite being asked to sling the ball as much or more than QBs recruited to Rileys type of system.

The guy who people are implying was better was benched by Riley (during a loss to a DIAA team) and eventually transferred. FYI: http://www.oregonlive.com/pac-12/index.ssf/2012/08/for_former_oregon_state_quarterback_ryan_katz_the.html

He's the only one who had a statistically better start under Riley than Armstrong, and even his QB rating was lower (had he played against Oregon that year, it might have been worse).

What's even more odd is that the two guys who outperformed him both were vying for time with Mannion, but eventually lost out, despite Mannion posting worst seasons statistically speaking (in fairness, he may have been playing the harder parts of the schedule... for example, Vaz posted most of his numbers in fill-in duty against DIAA and other poor non-P5 opponents).

I guess you're not going to answer my question?

 

[commando]

Do you even know how this thread started?

someone said they were a lot more comfortable with the Riley hire after the recent recruiting success....so you had to whizz on that fire to put it out.

 

[GBRFAN]

There was a very good post made early (I believe by commando) that stated something to the effect. Of how a good thread that should be positive can turn negative so quickly. The answer is CM (that's what trolls do and they love any reaction of any type) If he won't ban himself and move on - it might be time to ignore everything he says....

 

[Redux]

Do you even know how this thread started?

someone said they were a lot more comfortable with the Riley hire after the recent recruiting success....so you had to whizz on that fire to put it out.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

 

[I am I]

Look. All I know (well not ALL) is that Riley said when hired he can't wait to get out and use his new resources, name rec, and fan enthusiasm to recruit top notch players. I'd say he's done B+ on that front so far??

It's not my personal dream system he runs, but he's getting some SEEMINGLY good players to run HIS SYSTEM. Fulfilling his quest to go after those that can make a difference. I'm happy with the momentum!

After all, not turn all anti Bo, but he sure seemed to complain about the difficulties of getting guys here so it's refreshing at the least

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

P.s. Every player would/should always say they need to and can improve. That's a given. The question when assessing performance is not to decide whether improvement is desired but where the existing performance ranks against other benchmarks.

Fine....
I'll use the bench mark as comparing him to himself in the last staff along with TM.

Both amazing athletes that have the ability to do great things. But....both needed or still need to improve their decision making.

Nothing about that is disrespectful. I'm a big fan of both players.

Martinez improved every year. His junior year was quite good and he was off to a great start his senior year.

It's unfair to expect Tom Brady level decision making out of a college QB. Or even college level Andrew Luck. If that's what we need to make this system tick, we are in deep trouble regarding hitting the stated championship goals.

We don't need that level of decision making, nor should we expect it, because Tom Bradys and Andrew Lucks are rare.

Much less rare are quarterbacks who can complete 60-65% of their passes, make consistent decisions, and scramble a bit when needed. They will generally leave the running game to the running backs, and the fact that they can pass well doesn't mean an end to the running game. It actually helps the running game. Teams can go pass happy one Saturday, smashmouth the next. You are really hung up that we have to choose one over the other, despite the fact that other teams in windswept locations with no higher level of sophistication manage to do quite nicely.

Can you list some of the top guys from this past season who fit the bill in the bolded and were playing in prostyle systems?

The idea that a team "can go pass happy one Saturday and smashmouth the next" is so impossibly misguided that I don't think it's worth explaining again who that just does not lead to consistent results, let alone championship results (I guess you'll now cue up some random stats from Alabama while ignoring the fundamntal differences in our situations).

Off the top of my head I would say all four quarterbacks in last year's playoff series, all of whom averaged 30 or more passes a game over the season.

But you'll declare that isn't "prostyle" as if that somehow changes the point.

My "random stat" is that all four of those teams could go from pass heavy games to run heavy games -- or simply quarters -- to counter the opposing DC's strategy.

This is called "football."

You're welcome.

 

[cm husker]

I've noticed that your condescending tone increases in proportion to how far you climb out on a limb.

So, all of those playoff teams run the same system of "football"?

Interesting insight.

 

[commando]

i agree with the original post. the recent recruiting success does make me feel much better about the direction of the program.

 

[Redux]

i agree with the original post. the recent recruiting success does make me feel much better about the direction of the program.

I agree.

Landing 2 highly touted 4* recruits out of California is certainly something that will turn heads. It even opens the door to land a 3rd that could be a team changing recruit.

I'm pretty happy we went out of our comfort zone and tried actually pushing the bar that was set in stone of mediocrity under the last staff.

 

[Elf]

i agree with the original post. the recent recruiting success does make me feel much better about the direction of the program.

I agree.

Landing 2 highly touted 4* recruits out of California is certainly something that will turn heads. It even opens the door to land a 3rd that could be a team changing recruit.

I'm pretty happy we went out of our comfort zone and tried actually pushing the bar that was set in stone of mediocrity under the last staff.

I'm pretty darn happy with landing a pair of 4* kids from anywhere!

And yeah, this could be a game changer for us, only time will tell for sure but in the mean time I'm pretty darn excited by it.

 

[Redux]

We got so used to the idea that suffering a blowout every year, winning 9 and coming up 2nd or 3rd for the big target recruits was acceptable.

It wasn't and shouldn't be. I don't care what type of system we run if it works. I prefer a run heavy offense and an attacking defense. But I prefer wins more than anything and right now it sure as hell feels like we are ready to start stockpiling those wins again real soon.

 

[HuskerExpat]

We got so used to the idea that suffering a blowout every year, winning 9 and coming up 2nd or 3rd for the big target recruits was acceptable.

It wasn't and shouldn't be. I don't care what type of system we run if it works. I prefer a run heavy offense and an attacking defense. But I prefer wins more than anything and right now it sure as hell feels like we are ready to start stockpiling those wins again real soon.

Perfectly said. Exactly my feelings, as well as a number of other people I know.