Recruiting Balance

[SECHusker]

But the point is that rush plays start with the dline then the lbers, safeties, and corners. If the dline was doing its job then the safties would have never been put in position to try to make the play no matter how bad a job they did trying. The safeties are the absolute least responsible players for those runs. The dline should have stopped them and if not then the lbers should have, that's not the safeties job...

Jet Sweeps. Remind me how a DT makes a play on the outside like that? Stafford's job was to make those plays and he didn't do it. Watch that clip that I posted.

We just have different theories of thought. I believe you win and lose game in the trenches, which your video of RB's not being touched only reinforces. If the safeties responsibility was to stop the run, why weren't they in the box? They were 10-15 yards away doing nothing more than being safeties.

We have a real issue on the Dline. A great Dline makes everyone look great, a bad dline can make everyone else look like crap.

 

[SECHusker]

If I remember correctly, teams from the $ec have no recruiting balance.

They pay their recruits well and have no extra money left over.

Uhhh... I don't know if this is a jab at me or what, but all this hate and animosity this board has toward the SEC needs to stop. It's unbecoming. You can talk all about them paying their recruits, but if memory serves me best we have 2 teams in the BIG TEN that cannot play in postseason bowls.

SEC does do some shady things, but all conferences do.

I'll really think Bo needs to take pointers on some of the more successful recruiting and developmental tactics of Saban, Miles, Spurrier, Richt, and Urban (eventhough he is at OSU). Forced attrition works! If a guy can't crack the 2 or 3 deep after 3 years of being on roster, then this likely isn't the place for him. But this is another topic.

 

[EZ-E]

But the point is that rush plays start with the dline then the lbers, safeties, and corners. If the dline was doing its job then the safties would have never been put in position to try to make the play no matter how bad a job they did trying. The safeties are the absolute least responsible players for those runs. The dline should have stopped them and if not then the lbers should have, that's not the safeties job...

Jet Sweeps. Remind me how a DT makes a play on the outside like that? Stafford's job was to make those plays and he didn't do it. Watch that clip that I posted.

We just have different theories of thought. I believe you win and lose game in the trenches, which your video of RB's not being touched only reinforces. If the safeties responsibility was to stop the run, why weren't they in the box? They were 10-15 yards away doing nothing more than being safeties.

We have a real issue on the Dline. A great Dline makes everyone look great, a bad dline can make everyone else look like crap.

I know what you are saying. And again I wasnt implying our DL played out of their minds.

1) Just because our safety wasn't in the box doesn't mean his job wasn't to stop the run. His job on the jet sweeps in the video above is to read, react, and make the f'ing play. He did all of those except the third one.

2) Once they had us thinking about the Jet Sweep that was working with regularity because of the terrible angles and poor fundamentals on display that night by our safeties, they began to spread our DL out because we had to account for the outside. It was only then that they were able to slam it between the tackles. They had it perfectly set up as well because they would bring a man in motion as a decoy.

I'm not claiming we don't need help on the DLine. I'm simply pointing out that 500 yards on the ground would not have happened if Stafford would have simply made the plays that he is expected to make. He had a terrible game, and now he has a chance to redeem himself for it.

 

[PaulCrewe]

Here is the thing with the Wisconsin game and figuring out how to point a finger at a plethora of yards. The jet sweep set up a majority of their run game. The domination that was evident by getting to the perimeter set up all the success that Ball had between the tackles. Going into the first game, this is how I thought Wisky would attack NU. Told many people that James white was a far scarier back then Ball and that Gordon is a stud. They didn't go that route.

Now to the sweep, YES, a lot of it us on the safeties. And YES,. Stafford payed arguably his worst game at the wrong time. Whenever you get the jet motion the safeties(or nickel) are responsible for contain. And if you payed attention to the game, you saw that was the scheme as the safeties (more often than not Stafford) was in the backfield to make the play and whiffed . With every other DB playing man that whiff is magnified with the yards gained.

Now after said team shows a motion for a play that is destroying you that said play starts getting entrenched into a defenders head thus making them put their responsibilities on the back burner which leads to another hole in the defense thus Ball runs up the gut for an easy eight yards. Throw in some more shoddy tracking by a DB(usually a safety) adds to the rushing totals.

This was a great plan to attack what was a very good defensive plan. Bo, by playing man coverage took his chances of having the QB best him with his arm, which any reputable DC.would have done. The jet motion was/is a way of beating said theory. The success on the outside, again in part of defenders not making the pay when in gray position to make said pay, opened up the inside run game. Remember the mean coverage was used to help compensate the weakness on the interior. Once he edge was gained, albeit not without help, the weakness which do many across America knew, was exposed.

Wisky game downfall was safety play well before the issues NU had on the inside

 

[desertshox]

I'll really think Bo needs to take pointers on some of the more successful recruiting and developmental tactics of Saban, Miles, Spurrier, Richt, and Urban (eventhough he is at OSU). Forced attrition works! If a guy can't crack the 2 or 3 deep after 3 years of being on roster, then this likely isn't the place for him. But this is another topic.

iirc the b1g is handing out 4 yr scholarships and not the 1 yr renewable ones. oddly that should make a great sales pitch to the parents of any recruit.

 

[Jason Sitoke]

But the point is that rush plays start with the dline then the lbers, safeties, and corners. If the dline was doing its job then the safties would have never been put in position to try to make the play no matter how bad a job they did trying. The safeties are the absolute least responsible players for those runs. The dline should have stopped them and if not then the lbers should have, that's not the safeties job...

Jet Sweeps. Remind me how a DT makes a play on the outside like that? Stafford's job was to make those plays and he didn't do it. Watch that clip that I posted.

We just have different theories of thought. I believe you win and lose game in the trenches, which your video of RB's not being touched only reinforces. If the safeties responsibility was to stop the run, why weren't they in the box? They were 10-15 yards away doing nothing more than being safeties.

We have a real issue on the Dline. A great Dline makes everyone look great, a bad dline can make everyone else look like crap.

I know what you are saying. And again I wasnt implying our DL played out of their minds.

1) Just because our safety wasn't in the box doesn't mean his job wasn't to stop the run. His job on the jet sweeps in the video above is to read, react, and make the f'ing play. He did all of those except the third one.

2) Once they had us thinking about the Jet Sweep that was working with regularity because of the terrible angles and poor fundamentals on display that night by our safeties, they began to spread our DL out because we had to account for the outside. It was only then that they were able to slam it between the tackles. They had it perfectly set up as well because they would bring a man in motion as a decoy.

I'm not claiming we don't need help on the DLine. I'm simply pointing out that 500 yards on the ground would not have happened if Stafford would have simply made the plays that he is expected to make. He had a terrible game, and now he has a chance to redeem himself for it.

I pretty much agree with this. On those sweep plays, with the ball carrier being in a full sprint wide at the snap, tough for a DE to get in the backfield that quickly and force that play wide. I do agree that Stafford took some awful pursuit angles, and sometimes was just simply too slow. Some of the break downs (1:39, for instance), the corner is responsible for locking down the sideline and forcing the play inside, which did not happen.

I agree with EZ that a sure tackling set of DBs would have made their share TFLs. I don't even think UW thought they could run this damn play all night to the tune of 500+ yards. The theme of the current state of the D however, is broader in scope. I have no doubt that if Papuchis spreads the DEs out in an attempt to string out the sweep plays, UW just kills us off tackle instead.

Never thought I'd say this, but thanks for reposting the CCG 'highlights'. It was educational.

 

[EZ-E]

But the point is that rush plays start with the dline then the lbers, safeties, and corners. If the dline was doing its job then the safties would have never been put in position to try to make the play no matter how bad a job they did trying. The safeties are the absolute least responsible players for those runs. The dline should have stopped them and if not then the lbers should have, that's not the safeties job...

Jet Sweeps. Remind me how a DT makes a play on the outside like that? Stafford's job was to make those plays and he didn't do it. Watch that clip that I posted.

We just have different theories of thought. I believe you win and lose game in the trenches, which your video of RB's not being touched only reinforces. If the safeties responsibility was to stop the run, why weren't they in the box? They were 10-15 yards away doing nothing more than being safeties.

We have a real issue on the Dline. A great Dline makes everyone look great, a bad dline can make everyone else look like crap.

I know what you are saying. And again I wasnt implying our DL played out of their minds.

1) Just because our safety wasn't in the box doesn't mean his job wasn't to stop the run. His job on the jet sweeps in the video above is to read, react, and make the f'ing play. He did all of those except the third one.

2) Once they had us thinking about the Jet Sweep that was working with regularity because of the terrible angles and poor fundamentals on display that night by our safeties, they began to spread our DL out because we had to account for the outside. It was only then that they were able to slam it between the tackles. They had it perfectly set up as well because they would bring a man in motion as a decoy.

I'm not claiming we don't need help on the DLine. I'm simply pointing out that 500 yards on the ground would not have happened if Stafford would have simply made the plays that he is expected to make. He had a terrible game, and now he has a chance to redeem himself for it.

I pretty much agree with this. On those sweep plays, with the ball carrier being in a full sprint wide at the snap, tough for a DE to get in the backfield that quickly and force that play wide. I do agree that Stafford took some awful pursuit angles, and sometimes was just simply too slow. Some of the break downs (1:39, for instance), the corner is responsible for locking down the sideline and forcing the play inside, which did not happen.

I agree with EZ that a sure tackling set of DBs would have made their share TFLs. I don't even think UW thought they could run this damn play all night to the tune of 500+ yards. The theme of the current state of the D however, is broader in scope. I have no doubt that if Papuchis spreads the DEs out in an attempt to string out the sweep plays, UW just kills us off tackle instead.

Never thought I'd say this, but thanks for reposting the CCG 'highlights'. It was educational.

Had a ton of time this Christmas season. Rewatched this one along with the 2009 bowl game against Zona. O'Hanlon and Asante were in no way more talented than Stafford or PJ. They were both just able to read the run and come up and make the play in space. The play at .48 is exactly to the T what I'm talking about.

 

[EZ-E]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

 

[The King]

If we had Hagg, Asante, or O'Hanlon that game is very, very close.

PS - To who said that it's not one players fault - the answer is yes it is, because that one player was consistently in the correct position and consistently failed to do what he has been taught to do. And as PJ Smith said, in this defense, if you f#*k up in man-man, it's going for six.

The D Line wasn't world beaters, but they did what they were supposed to. The runs at the edge were not of their concern (if so, do you really think Stafford would have been perfectly placed to make the tackle, every single f'ing time?)

 

[strigori]

The question then begs, as Stafford was not cutting it, why did the coaches not put someone, anyone, else in? There are other bodies on the team, and they certainly couldn't do any worse.

 

[SECHusker]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

I have NEVER HEARD OF NOR SEEN A DEFENSIVE STRATEGY where it is the primary responsibility of a SAFETY to stop the run game. Stafford, who did not have a great game, was out of position because stopping the the sweep wasn't his responsibility. To place blame on one player or the safeties on "300" or "500" yards on the ground is crazy talk.

This is the same type of talk this board had when they threw O'hanlan underneath the bus for the Vtech game.

 

[jsneb83]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

I have NEVER HEARD OF NOR SEEN A DEFENSIVE STRATEGY where it is the primary responsibility of a SAFETY to stop the run game. Stafford, who did not have a great game, was out of position because stopping the the sweep wasn't his responsibility. To place blame on one player or the safeties on "300" or "500" yards on the ground is crazy talk.

This is the same type of talk this board had when they threw O'hanlan underneath the bus for the Vtech game.

That wasn't our gameplan, we stacked the box to stop the inside runs. Thats why there was no one outside on the sweeps, which meant our safeties had to step up and make the plays which they obviously didn't.

 

[Chaddyboxer]

At times....but not only Stafford (linebackers included)...it looked like "lack of effort" I could say and I hate to say that. Slow, sluggish, poor angles, poor tackling. The team needs to have a better mindset and play with some aggression and passion come the bowl game.

 

[Landlord]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

I have NEVER HEARD OF NOR SEEN A DEFENSIVE STRATEGY where it is the primary responsibility of a SAFETY to stop the run game. Stafford, who did not have a great game, was out of position because stopping the the sweep wasn't his responsibility. To place blame on one player or the safeties on "300" or "500" yards on the ground is crazy talk.

This is the same type of talk this board had when they threw O'hanlan underneath the bus for the Vtech game.

Show me one instance of some defensive tackles or even defensive ends running down jet sweep motion ball-carriers, please. Thanks in advance.

 

[da skers]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

I have NEVER HEARD OF NOR SEEN A DEFENSIVE STRATEGY where it is the primary responsibility of a SAFETY to stop the run game. Stafford, who did not have a great game, was out of position because stopping the the sweep wasn't his responsibility. To place blame on one player or the safeties on "300" or "500" yards on the ground is crazy talk.

This is the same type of talk this board had when they threw O'hanlan underneath the bus for the Vtech game.

Show me one instance of some defensive tackles or even defensive ends running down jet sweep motion ball-carriers, please. Thanks in advance.

Stop asking. He's just recycling what he heard out of Foremans mouth.