Recruiting Balance

[EZ-E]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

I have NEVER HEARD OF NOR SEEN A DEFENSIVE STRATEGY where it is the primary responsibility of a SAFETY to stop the run game. Stafford, who did not have a great game, was out of position because stopping the the sweep wasn't his responsibility. To place blame on one player or the safeties on "300" or "500" yards on the ground is crazy talk.

This is the same type of talk this board had when they threw O'hanlan underneath the bus for the Vtech game.

1) Did I say it was his primary responsibility in our entire defensive strategy? I am not saying that the A-gap would have been Stafford's responsibility all night long. The specific JET SWEEPS were his responsibility. Watch the damn video.

2) How is stopping the jet sweep, which what sparked this, NOT Stafford's responsibility?

3) I am not blaming one player for a loss. Never would I do that.

4) Did you even watch the plays I am talking about? Don't answer that. I know you didn't.

To claim that the plays we are talking about can't be placed on the safties' inability to take the right angle to the running back and make a sound one on one form tackle at our behind the LOS would be wrong.

I can't stress this to you enough : WATCH THE CLIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SECHusker]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

I have NEVER HEARD OF NOR SEEN A DEFENSIVE STRATEGY where it is the primary responsibility of a SAFETY to stop the run game. Stafford, who did not have a great game, was out of position because stopping the the sweep wasn't his responsibility. To place blame on one player or the safeties on "300" or "500" yards on the ground is crazy talk.

This is the same type of talk this board had when they threw O'hanlan underneath the bus for the Vtech game.

1) Did I say it was his primary responsibility in our entire defensive strategy? I am not saying that the A-gap would have been Stafford's responsibility all night long. The specific JET SWEEPS were his responsibility. Watch the damn video.

2) How is stopping the jet sweep, which what sparked this, NOT Stafford's responsibility?

3) I am not blaming one player for a loss. Never would I do that.

4) Did you even watch the plays I am talking about? Don't answer that. I know you didn't.

To claim that the plays we are talking about can't be placed on the safties' inability to take the right angle to the running back and make a sound one on one form tackle at our behind the LOS would be wrong.

I can't stress this to you enough : WATCH THE CLIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

I watched your video, we just see different things. Stating that one player is responsible for 500 yards of offense (78% of a teams total offense) is putting the blame on one player. If a safety or corner was responsible for stopping that play why not run a dime? or dollar? you get more db's on the field because the one's you have aren't cutting the job. But we played a lot of 4-3, meaning the scheme was to stop the run with those front seven.

Get outside the BIG 10 bubble watch some SEC games (where Bo came, where one of Bo's mentors Stoops came from) or FSU games and see how an active front 7, specifically their dline, can shut down a running game.

I'm done. I've enjoyed this little debate. Deuces

 

[EZ-E]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

I have NEVER HEARD OF NOR SEEN A DEFENSIVE STRATEGY where it is the primary responsibility of a SAFETY to stop the run game. Stafford, who did not have a great game, was out of position because stopping the the sweep wasn't his responsibility. To place blame on one player or the safeties on "300" or "500" yards on the ground is crazy talk.

This is the same type of talk this board had when they threw O'hanlan underneath the bus for the Vtech game.

1) Did I say it was his primary responsibility in our entire defensive strategy? I am not saying that the A-gap would have been Stafford's responsibility all night long. The specific JET SWEEPS were his responsibility. Watch the damn video.

2) How is stopping the jet sweep, which what sparked this, NOT Stafford's responsibility?

3) I am not blaming one player for a loss. Never would I do that.

4) Did you even watch the plays I am talking about? Don't answer that. I know you didn't.

To claim that the plays we are talking about can't be placed on the safties' inability to take the right angle to the running back and make a sound one on one form tackle at our behind the LOS would be wrong.

I can't stress this to you enough : WATCH THE CLIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

I watched your video, we just see different things. Stating that one player is responsible for 500 yards of offense (78% of a teams total offense) is putting the blame on one player. If a safety or corner was responsible for stopping that play why not run a dime? or dollar? you get more db's on the field because the one's you have aren't cutting the job. But we played a lot of 4-3, meaning the scheme was to stop the run with those front seven.

Get outside the BIG 10 bubble watch some SEC games (where Bo came, where one of Bo's mentors Stoops came from) or FSU games and see how an active front 7, specifically their dline, can shut down a running game.

I'm done. I've enjoyed this little debate. Deuces

1) Find where I blamed 500 yards of offense on one player. I want you to quote me as well. I never once blamed 500 yards on one player.

2) I am not saying on every single play that a safety should stop the run, but based on the above clips, you should see what I am saying. I could very well be giving you way too much credit. Very strong possibility. You are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I am not saying that our gameplan was to rely solely on the play of our defensive backs to stop the run. I am saying that on the JET SWEEPS JET SWEEPS JET SWEEPS JET SWEEPS JET SWEEPS (has it sunk in yet?) that those were Stafford's responsibility much like they were O'Hanlon's in 09 when we had arguably our best DL in school history. Yes, they were still the safties' responsibility even when we had Suh.

3) I watch plenty of college football. That doesn't make you any less wrong right now.

4) Bo worked one year for Stoops. Doesn't exactly mean he mentored him. I would hardly call it that while Bo was at OU (don't think I missed your SEC reference with Stoops either. I know he was at Florida with Spurrier).

5) Show me one clip of a DT or DE blowing up a Jet Sweep. Unless they are less than a god but more than a man, there isn't a single DT on the face of the earth that can adequately blow up a Jet Sweep with regularity.

6) You have one thing right. We played a ton of 4-3. But when you watch the game a second time you will notice how condensed they were for 2 reasons A) Wisconsin ran from a lot of tight sets and didn't try to spread us out a ton B) we were worried about in between the tackles.

Let's put this to a vote though, BASED ON THE ABOVE CLIPS AND REWATCHING THE GAME, WHO HONESTLY THINKS THAT IT WAS THE DL's JOB TO STOP THE JET SWEEPS IN QUESTION????????

Don't be shy HuskerBoard.

 

[Amac3309]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

I have NEVER HEARD OF NOR SEEN A DEFENSIVE STRATEGY where it is the primary responsibility of a SAFETY to stop the run game. Stafford, who did not have a great game, was out of position because stopping the the sweep wasn't his responsibility. To place blame on one player or the safeties on "300" or "500" yards on the ground is crazy talk.

This is the same type of talk this board had when they threw O'hanlan underneath the bus for the Vtech game.

1) Did I say it was his primary responsibility in our entire defensive strategy? I am not saying that the A-gap would have been Stafford's responsibility all night long. The specific JET SWEEPS were his responsibility. Watch the damn video.

2) How is stopping the jet sweep, which what sparked this, NOT Stafford's responsibility?

3) I am not blaming one player for a loss. Never would I do that.

4) Did you even watch the plays I am talking about? Don't answer that. I know you didn't.

To claim that the plays we are talking about can't be placed on the safties' inability to take the right angle to the running back and make a sound one on one form tackle at our behind the LOS would be wrong.

I can't stress this to you enough : WATCH THE CLIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

I watched your video, we just see different things. Stating that one player is responsible for 500 yards of offense (78% of a teams total offense) is putting the blame on one player. If a safety or corner was responsible for stopping that play why not run a dime? or dollar? you get more db's on the field because the one's you have aren't cutting the job. But we played a lot of 4-3, meaning the scheme was to stop the run with those front seven.

Get outside the BIG 10 bubble watch some SEC games (where Bo came, where one of Bo's mentors Stoops came from) or FSU games and see how an active front 7, specifically their dline, can shut down a running game.

I'm done. I've enjoyed this little debate. Deuces

Man re watching that was painful, a couple things to consider especially when talking about Pelini specific defensive responsibilities;

1) the weakness in his d is off tackle runs, for that reason one of the safety's main responsibility is to read the block of the te and tackle and be able to come up and make the play on the outside, our safety's were reacting fine they just were not making the play

2) the linebackers were (rightfully) so concerned about the inside run the got sucked into the middle on every fake inside (especially fisher) and don't have the speed to recover to get back to the outside, later in the game they did better but that is when they started gashing us inside (actually great play sequencing)

3) while the d line didn't play terrible Wiscy was down blocking almost the entire game, it seemed like they were so concerned about holding their depth they got blown sideways out of their gaps and didn't do a good job keeping the linebackers clean

So after all that the the statement I believe is the truest about this game is we are lacking enough speed at the linebacker and safety position and bulk on the d line to run Pelini's defensive scheme.

But do we? I think the biggest downfall for Pelini is playing the guys he trusts even if they are less talented, at some point he needs to learn to trust some younger guys who have the talent to run his scheme. When he turned the offense over to beck he let beck trust freshman and sophomores but when is the last time a freshman or sophomore made a huge impact on defense

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

All depends on our scheme.

1) our DE's should be reading the block and fighting to the outside to help disrupt and save the edge. We could also have them rushing up field to disrupt the sweep.

2) you can use OLB to blow up the sweep motion player regardless if he gets the ball or not.

3) you can cheat up your safeties to help with the edge and cut the play back into the rest of the defense.

From watching the game we chose #3. We may have chose this as more of a default.

1) our DL play is weak and inconsistent

2)rolling a backer over takes one more guy out of the box.

Not sure what Bo's thinking was or why he wanted to do it that way just brainstorming.

So the two sides that are arguing about this are both right in regards to how one can attempt to stop the Jet Sweep. Our lack of talent and depth is why we were limited in ways to stop it. IMHO

 

[HuskerShark]

If we played zone defense, we could consistently count on 3-4 guys swarming to the ball on those jet sweeps. But we play man-to-man, which means that there will many times only be 1 player who is able to swarm to make the tackle, and since we play cover 2 with the safeties, it just happens to be the safety on a certain side of the field who needs to come up and make the tackle.

In addition, the CB needs to get off of the block by the wide receiver and contain, while potentially making the tackle himself. Prince Amukamara was as good as anyone I have seen at shedding blocks and making a tackle one-on-one. Currently, we don't have a CB on the team who is anywhere close to as physical as Prince was for us. Not even Ciante.

Nowhere on those Jet sweeps is it the D-Line's responsibility to make the tackle unless the ball carrier is forced to turn back to the inside, which never happened because our S and CB never took the right angle to the ball. It was a poor effort by every person on the defense all game long.

 

[Atbone95]

EZ-E is right. In a 4-3, on an outside run, SECHusker is right. It is not his responsibility to make the tackle. To be honest, if we're being practical, unless you're talking a bomb to the endzone or something, it should NEVER be soley the safety's job to make a tackle. However, it IS the safety's job to turn the play inside. f#*k tackling him- force him to cut back inside where the rest of your defensive pursuit is. Go on EZ-E's clip and show me one time Stafford did that... Thanks.

Poor safety play. End of story.

 

[Landlord]

If a safety or corner was responsible for stopping that play why not run a dime? or dollar?

The same reason you don't run a 6-5 with linemen and linebackers even though Wisconsin wasn't throwing the football - because it's idiotic. Did you seriously just ask this?

 

[Overland Park Husker]

May be the best explanation I've seen and makes sense based on Pelini's defensive scheme:

It comes down to this. Wisconsin figured out that Stafford and Smith were responsible for safety help over the top with our corners. Basically, our corners play to jump the short routes, knowing they have help up top if there is a double move. That's fine, it's actually worked all season for us. But here's what bit us, they also found out our safeties were responsible for contain on the jet-sweep, or responsible for the cut back on zone reads or the counter. It is impossible for our safeties to get enough depth to help with the deep ball, but also be the help needed to either contain the sweep or stop the cutback. So another way to explain this is, the jet sweep happens so fast, that if the safety is going to help on contain, he needs to be flying up as soon as he sees that jet motion coming through. Easy enough right? But as soon as Wisconsin would have seen us do that, all they would have to do is double move, throw it deep and it would have been a TD. So the reason the poor angles were happening is because even though they would see jet motion, they needed to get depth to help the corner, whhen they knew the ball was handed off, they were already playing catch up. Also, our front seven are not responsible to fly out on this motion, basically our front seven is supposed to run it down from behind while they know the safety will be there to turn the play back to the inside. The reason our front seven don't fly out is because Wisconsin has shown that they would fake the jet sweep and run power inside.

Against Penn St, you remember all of the announcers saying that once the Nittany Lions widened their DEs, Wisky couldn't do anything. Our DEs NEVER play contain. It was up to our safeties to play contain AND have deep half of the field. Quite honestly, just like the UCLA game when Whaley or Compton was supposed to guard the running back out of the back field in the slot, an NFL safety couldn't get this done against Wisconsin, and an NFL LB couldn't get what we asked Whaley or Compton to get done against the Bruins. The good news is, this is fixable. The bad news is, will it be fixed? So many ways you can fix it, but again, will it be done?

http://forum.huskermax.com/vbbs/showthread.php?42061-How-Wisconsin-Attacked-Our-D

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

That is my biggest concern. Will these things be fixed? I will lose my mind if Georgia jet sweeps us haha

 

[HuskerShark]

May be the best explanation I've seen and makes sense based on Pelini's defensive scheme:

It comes down to this. Wisconsin figured out that Stafford and Smith were responsible for safety help over the top with our corners. Basically, our corners play to jump the short routes, knowing they have help up top if there is a double move. That's fine, it's actually worked all season for us. But here's what bit us, they also found out our safeties were responsible for contain on the jet-sweep, or responsible for the cut back on zone reads or the counter. It is impossible for our safeties to get enough depth to help with the deep ball, but also be the help needed to either contain the sweep or stop the cutback. So another way to explain this is, the jet sweep happens so fast, that if the safety is going to help on contain, he needs to be flying up as soon as he sees that jet motion coming through. Easy enough right? But as soon as Wisconsin would have seen us do that, all they would have to do is double move, throw it deep and it would have been a TD. So the reason the poor angles were happening is because even though they would see jet motion, they needed to get depth to help the corner, whhen they knew the ball was handed off, they were already playing catch up. Also, our front seven are not responsible to fly out on this motion, basically our front seven is supposed to run it down from behind while they know the safety will be there to turn the play back to the inside. The reason our front seven don't fly out is because Wisconsin has shown that they would fake the jet sweep and run power inside.

Against Penn St, you remember all of the announcers saying that once the Nittany Lions widened their DEs, Wisky couldn't do anything. Our DEs NEVER play contain. It was up to our safeties to play contain AND have deep half of the field. Quite honestly, just like the UCLA game when Whaley or Compton was supposed to guard the running back out of the back field in the slot, an NFL safety couldn't get this done against Wisconsin, and an NFL LB couldn't get what we asked Whaley or Compton to get done against the Bruins. The good news is, this is fixable. The bad news is, will it be fixed? So many ways you can fix it, but again, will it be done?

http://forum.huskerm...-Attacked-Our-D

Regarding that last paragraph, that may have stopped the jet sweeps if we had widened our DEs, but we don't have the LBs that Penn State has to fill the middle, so we just would have been gashed up the middle if that adjustment had been made. We just don't have enough bodies at DT and LB to pull that off.

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

May be the best explanation I've seen and makes sense based on Pelini's defensive scheme:

It comes down to this. Wisconsin figured out that Stafford and Smith were responsible for safety help over the top with our corners. Basically, our corners play to jump the short routes, knowing they have help up top if there is a double move. That's fine, it's actually worked all season for us. But here's what bit us, they also found out our safeties were responsible for contain on the jet-sweep, or responsible for the cut back on zone reads or the counter. It is impossible for our safeties to get enough depth to help with the deep ball, but also be the help needed to either contain the sweep or stop the cutback. So another way to explain this is, the jet sweep happens so fast, that if the safety is going to help on contain, he needs to be flying up as soon as he sees that jet motion coming through. Easy enough right? But as soon as Wisconsin would have seen us do that, all they would have to do is double move, throw it deep and it would have been a TD. So the reason the poor angles were happening is because even though they would see jet motion, they needed to get depth to help the corner, whhen they knew the ball was handed off, they were already playing catch up. Also, our front seven are not responsible to fly out on this motion, basically our front seven is supposed to run it down from behind while they know the safety will be there to turn the play back to the inside. The reason our front seven don't fly out is because Wisconsin has shown that they would fake the jet sweep and run power inside.

Against Penn St, you remember all of the announcers saying that once the Nittany Lions widened their DEs, Wisky couldn't do anything. Our DEs NEVER play contain. It was up to our safeties to play contain AND have deep half of the field. Quite honestly, just like the UCLA game when Whaley or Compton was supposed to guard the running back out of the back field in the slot, an NFL safety couldn't get this done against Wisconsin, and an NFL LB couldn't get what we asked Whaley or Compton to get done against the Bruins. The good news is, this is fixable. The bad news is, will it be fixed? So many ways you can fix it, but again, will it be done?

http://forum.huskerm...-Attacked-Our-D

Regarding that last paragraph, that may have stopped the jet sweeps if we had widened our DEs, but we don't have the LBs that Penn State has to fill the middle, so we just would have been gashed up the middle if that adjustment had been made. We just don't have enough bodies at DT and LB to pull that off.

We should have them though, shouldn't we?

 

[da skers]

Better yet, watch the full video. You'll see what we need out of our safeties.

I have NEVER HEARD OF NOR SEEN A DEFENSIVE STRATEGY where it is the primary responsibility of a SAFETY to stop the run game. Stafford, who did not have a great game, was out of position because stopping the the sweep wasn't his responsibility. To place blame on one player or the safeties on "300" or "500" yards on the ground is crazy talk.

This is the same type of talk this board had when they threw O'hanlan underneath the bus for the Vtech game.

1) Did I say it was his primary responsibility in our entire defensive strategy? I am not saying that the A-gap would have been Stafford's responsibility all night long. The specific JET SWEEPS were his responsibility. Watch the damn video.

2) How is stopping the jet sweep, which what sparked this, NOT Stafford's responsibility?

3) I am not blaming one player for a loss. Never would I do that.

4) Did you even watch the plays I am talking about? Don't answer that. I know you didn't.

To claim that the plays we are talking about can't be placed on the safties' inability to take the right angle to the running back and make a sound one on one form tackle at our behind the LOS would be wrong.

I can't stress this to you enough : WATCH THE CLIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make the stupid SOB take a drink.

 

[zoogs]

Gotta say you're right, that safety play is not looking good at all.

Do you still feel Cam Meredith at DT was something that caused us big problems that game, on top of it? Also, I'm curious if perhaps the scheme itself deserves criticism. Asking anyone to be the open-field tackler against a RB in space where if it misses, the D is gashed big-time seems like the D being put in a losing situation to begin with.

 

[EZ-E]

When a safety plays the position he knows what he's signing up for. Especially in Bo's defense. Da Skers is right in the sense that our safeties are probably the most important on the field in Bo's defense. O'Hanlan makes that play. I garuntee it, so Stafford needs to do the same.

With how active Cam is, I personally don't feel that he was as big an issue there as one would think. You definately don't have to double team him like they would have Baker though which caused us a ton of issues.