Sam Keller sues the NCAA

[Never Skerd']

I'm with the players on this one. Colleges and the NCAA are out of control with their money and need to be sued. Overall, the NCAA needs to be dismantled.

What was the report I read a couple years back, a man audited 2% of UNL's spending and found that there was a 98% fraudulent spending? Wow! Take that into the entire 100% budget! and they have the tenacity to raise tuition? Someone needs to step in and put the PUBLIC back into PUBLIC universities.

there is no Accountability.

 

[Hercules]

The only people against the players in this lawsuit feel that way because they play the video game and don't want to see it go away. I play the video game, but I can at least separate my desire to play the game from the logical part of my brain which sees that the student athletes are getting screwed over.

 

[Hingle McCringleberry]

I'm with the players on this one. Colleges and the NCAA are out of control with their money and need to be sued. Overall, the NCAA needs to be dismantled.

What was the report I read a couple years back, a man audited 2% of UNL's spending and found that there was a 98% fraudulent spending? Wow! Take that into the entire 100% budget! and they have the tenacity to raise tuition? Someone needs to step in and put the PUBLIC back into PUBLIC universities.

there is no Accountability.

So then what? Stop making the games, maybe pay the players, hmm would like to see the outcome of that. Was it Rose who wanted a percent of the money from the sales of "his" jerseys to go into a fund that would be paid out once he graduated, good thing they were paying him on the side, pour thing must of almost starved to death.

Also what does the Athletic Department have to do with tuition? Last I checked the athletic department was independent from the rest of the college.

I would think many of these kids find it neat to have some "likeness" of theirs in a video game. This is there flash in the pan moment, before going on to a job outside the lime light.

98% fraudulent, please post a link.

 

[RazzinGTO]

The only people against the players in this lawsuit feel that way because they play the video game and don't want to see it go away. I play the video game, but I can at least separate my desire to play the game from the logical part of my brain which sees that the student athletes are getting screwed over.

I hope you realize the comments about the video game and not wanting it to go away are a joke. The game will not go anywhere. Besides - this game has been around for how long and i haven't seen anyone else take up the fight against it. In fact I believe the two main names taking it up are O'Bannon and Keller, both players who FAILED at the next level.

And again - I believe all these players signed something with the university and the NCAA allowing them to use their images/likenesses to promote the NCAA.

 

[Hercules]

The only people against the players in this lawsuit feel that way because they play the video game and don't want to see it go away. I play the video game, but I can at least separate my desire to play the game from the logical part of my brain which sees that the student athletes are getting screwed over.

I hope you realize the comments about the video game and not wanting it to go away are a joke. The game will not go anywhere. Besides - this game has been around for how long and i haven't seen anyone else take up the fight against it. In fact I believe the two main names taking it up are O'Bannon and Keller, both players who FAILED at the next level.

And again - I believe all these players signed something with the university and the NCAA allowing them to use their images/likenesses to promote the NCAA.

Whether guys were successful at the next level has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

And if the court prevented EA Sports from using player's likenesses, that would do a lot of damage to the EA Sports NCAA game franchise. Because the only reason most people buy the game every year is for the new rosters. If not for that, I sure as heck wouldn't have bought a new game each year, like I used to 5 years ago. The game doesn't improve in any way year to year, they just change the rosters. You could make the argument that EA Sports' SOLE source of profit with NCAA games is based on using player's likenesses, since there's hardly any other reason to buy the game year in and year out.

 

[billdozer15]

The only people against the players in this lawsuit feel that way because they play the video game and don't want to see it go away. I play the video game, but I can at least separate my desire to play the game from the logical part of my brain which sees that the student athletes are getting screwed over.

I hope you realize the comments about the video game and not wanting it to go away are a joke. The game will not go anywhere. Besides - this game has been around for how long and i haven't seen anyone else take up the fight against it. In fact I believe the two main names taking it up are O'Bannon and Keller, both players who FAILED at the next level.

And again - I believe all these players signed something with the university and the NCAA allowing them to use their images/likenesses to promote the NCAA.

Whether guys were successful at the next level has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

And if the court prevented EA Sports from using player's likenesses, that would do a lot of damage to the EA Sports NCAA game franchise. Because the only reason most people buy the game every year is for the new rosters. If not for that, I sure as heck wouldn't have bought a new game each year, like I used to 5 years ago. The game doesn't improve in any way year to year, they just change the rosters. You could make the argument that EA Sports' SOLE source of profit with NCAA games is based on using player's likenesses, since there's hardly any other reason to buy the game year in and year out.

If the EA Sports Franchise is unable to use players likeness, this wont prevent anything other than changing the cover that usually has an actual player on the cover. (after thinking about it that wont even change because it is always a player who has graduated) The reason nothing will change is because EA will provide the gameing platform as they do currently with a generic roster with everything mix matched to not even resemble a CFB team, however there is nothing to stop NCAA athletic depts from giving the rights to their logos and the authority to use the SCHOOLS likeness in their game. (meaning EA can create stadiums and team logos without repercussion) Then a week after it comes out some 3rd party will have created rosters with players likeness, sizes, speed, etc. (just like they do now)

In the end EA only creates the platform, 3rd parties change it to make it lifelike. The fully customizable and savable rosters is what makes EA so smart, without that option they may be in hot water, but because they can sell the platform and allow it to be customized this allows the 3rd party market to make it lifelike and thus impossible for Keller/Obannon and anyone else to collect. Its pretty simple.

edit: Technically EA could create one gaming platform and every year a 3rd party could create a new customized roster for people to upload. But EA makes small tweaks to the game play each year to bring people back. So, the argument that people come back for the roster is bogus, because a 3rd party could adjust an NCAA 2010 roster to reflect NCAA 2011 players and you would have the same game only with the new rosters.

 

[billdozer15]

The lamest part of the argument is that the players dont get paid and should. They do.....alot....its called getting a free education and in some cases that can be worth up to 100k depending on where you go. I have an idea lets get rid of scholarships and make these guys pay their own way to school and see where alot of them end up. Likely they will be living in the hood dodging bullets because they cant afford to go.

BTW the NCAA and school they sign with owns their ace once they sign the papers, they have no foot to stand on in this case. The only way they could/should get money is if they dont sign the papers and dont take scholarship money. In that case there is no contractual agreement to allow the NCAA and school to use you for marketing purposes and since you dont have a scholarship you technically arent recieving a benefit with monetary value. I am pretty sure most of the players in the NCAA would be flipping whoppers if they had to pay to go to school and I am pretty sure a school would never let you be on the team with out signing the waivers.

In conclusion you take your scholarship money, get your education, get an opportunity to travel all over the US, get gifts (ala bowl games ect), have a chance to showcase your talent for a shot at the league and you are B****ing you dont get paid.....hmmmmmm.

Sounds alot more glorified than my college experience which consisted of paying for all my meals mostly of which were raeman noodles and i came out with 60k in debt, didnt get to travel, didnt get free gifts, didnt have a chance to showcase talent for a shot at millions.

First thing is that those two comments above are pretty harsh. Not all NCAA athletes are thugs living in hood and there are a lot that have done more with their education then most people with a 60k college debt.

Secondly - the money a school makes off athletes, like football players at a school like Nebraska, completely out weighs the money the school spends to pay for their college education, trips, etc. This isn't the case in all sports of course but when the school is raking in millions of dollars EACH GAME. The LEAST that the schools can do for these kids is pay their way through school. I am not advocating paying college athletes but I wouldn't be against some kind of stipend.

On the Keller issue, I agree with the posts above that he is basically looking to take something back from the NCAA, whom he seems for some reason to think wronged him. He was no where near a NFL calibar QB. His head was pumped so full of BS by his dad and Callahan that he could not believe he failed to make the NFL. So in an effort to recoup this money he thinks he is going to take something up against the NCAA and EA sports. The games DO make players stats/play like the actual athletes. Anyone that plays it can't really argue that. Making white players black and black players white is simply a programmers lame attempt to cover it up.

I didnt say all NCAA athletes are thugs, i said alot of them would be flipping whoppers or living in the hood dodging bullets. As harsh as that may be, it is mostly true. As far as "there are a lot that have done more with their education then most people with a 60k college debt" Sure you could say that, because if i wasnt loaded with $700 in student loan minimum payments a month I would be able to do alot more. Coming out of college debt free with the experiences these guys get is priceless. I think most of them understand this and that is why you only see a select few taking up this fight.

 

[Hercules]

The only people against the players in this lawsuit feel that way because they play the video game and don't want to see it go away. I play the video game, but I can at least separate my desire to play the game from the logical part of my brain which sees that the student athletes are getting screwed over.

I hope you realize the comments about the video game and not wanting it to go away are a joke. The game will not go anywhere. Besides - this game has been around for how long and i haven't seen anyone else take up the fight against it. In fact I believe the two main names taking it up are O'Bannon and Keller, both players who FAILED at the next level.

And again - I believe all these players signed something with the university and the NCAA allowing them to use their images/likenesses to promote the NCAA.

Whether guys were successful at the next level has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

And if the court prevented EA Sports from using player's likenesses, that would do a lot of damage to the EA Sports NCAA game franchise. Because the only reason most people buy the game every year is for the new rosters. If not for that, I sure as heck wouldn't have bought a new game each year, like I used to 5 years ago. The game doesn't improve in any way year to year, they just change the rosters. You could make the argument that EA Sports' SOLE source of profit with NCAA games is based on using player's likenesses, since there's hardly any other reason to buy the game year in and year out.

If the EA Sports Franchise is unable to use players likeness, this wont prevent anything other than changing the cover that usually has an actual player on the cover. (after thinking about it that wont even change because it is always a player who has graduated) The reason nothing will change is because EA will provide the gameing platform as they do currently with a generic roster with everything mix matched to not even resemble a CFB team, however there is nothing to stop NCAA athletic depts from giving the rights to their logos and the authority to use the SCHOOLS likeness in their game. (meaning EA can create stadiums and team logos without repercussion) Then a week after it comes out some 3rd party will have created rosters with players likeness, sizes, speed, etc. (just like they do now)

In the end EA only creates the platform, 3rd parties change it to make it lifelike. The fully customizable and savable rosters is what makes EA so smart, without that option they may be in hot water, but because they can sell the platform and allow it to be customized this allows the 3rd party market to make it lifelike and thus impossible for Keller/Obannon and anyone else to collect. Its pretty simple.

edit: Technically EA could create one gaming platform and every year a 3rd party could create a new customized roster for people to upload. But EA makes small tweaks to the game play each year to bring people back. So, the argument that people come back for the roster is bogus, because a 3rd party could adjust an NCAA 2010 roster to reflect NCAA 2011 players and you would have the same game only with the new rosters.

The rosters that come ON the platform use the likeness of the student-athletes before 3rd parties ever touch them. They've got position, number, height, weight, build, skin color, physical attributes/skills, even hometown is set so that it resembles a "likeness" to the actual student athlete. Are you really going to tell me that, "QB #3" on Nebraska isn't really Taylor Martinez? Or that "DT #94" isn't Jared Crick? Just because their name isn't on it, or their real picture isn't there? Please.

And yes, EA Sports makes minor tweaks to the game each year. Really stupid, meaningless tweaks that don't improve the game whatsoever. They're like the professors who fix a couple typo's in a textbook, create a few new ones, and come out with a whole new edition so that their new students have to buy the new book, and the old students can't sell their old used one back. It's a scam.

Also, while you can customize and save rosters, you can't use those rosters in online play. And since right now, every hardcore Nebraska fan wants to use Taylor Martinez in the zone read in online play, the only way they can do that (to my knowledge) is if they have the new game. Rosters ARE the reason people buy the new game every year. Not because EA Sports decided to make the field goal net blow in the wind on kickoffs.

 

[RedDenver]

The rosters that come ON the platform use the likeness of the student-athletes before 3rd parties ever touch them. They've got position, number, height, weight, build, skin color, physical attributes/skills, even hometown is set so that it resembles a "likeness" to the actual student athlete. Are you really going to tell me that, "QB #3" on Nebraska isn't really Taylor Martinez? Or that "DT #94" isn't Jared Crick? Just because their name isn't on it, or their real picture isn't there? Please.

And yes, EA Sports makes minor tweaks to the game each year. Really stupid, meaningless tweaks that don't improve the game whatsoever. They're like the professors who fix a couple typo's in a textbook, create a few new ones, and come out with a whole new edition so that their new students have to buy the new book, and the old students can't sell their old used one back. It's a scam.

Also, while you can customize and save rosters, you can't use those rosters in online play. And since right now, every hardcore Nebraska fan wants to use Taylor Martinez in the zone read in online play, the only way they can do that (to my knowledge) is if they have the new game. Rosters ARE the reason people buy the new game every year. Not because EA Sports decided to make the field goal net blow in the wind on kickoffs.

Excellent job summing up why Keller and others have a case against EA. The question of whether Keller winning the case stops EA from making the game really comes down to this:

Would you still buy the game each year if the rosters did NOT reflect the actual players on the team?

 

[billdozer15]

The only people against the players in this lawsuit feel that way because they play the video game and don't want to see it go away. I play the video game, but I can at least separate my desire to play the game from the logical part of my brain which sees that the student athletes are getting screwed over.

I hope you realize the comments about the video game and not wanting it to go away are a joke. The game will not go anywhere. Besides - this game has been around for how long and i haven't seen anyone else take up the fight against it. In fact I believe the two main names taking it up are O'Bannon and Keller, both players who FAILED at the next level.

And again - I believe all these players signed something with the university and the NCAA allowing them to use their images/likenesses to promote the NCAA.

Whether guys were successful at the next level has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

And if the court prevented EA Sports from using player's likenesses, that would do a lot of damage to the EA Sports NCAA game franchise. Because the only reason most people buy the game every year is for the new rosters. If not for that, I sure as heck wouldn't have bought a new game each year, like I used to 5 years ago. The game doesn't improve in any way year to year, they just change the rosters. You could make the argument that EA Sports' SOLE source of profit with NCAA games is based on using player's likenesses, since there's hardly any other reason to buy the game year in and year out.

If the EA Sports Franchise is unable to use players likeness, this wont prevent anything other than changing the cover that usually has an actual player on the cover. (after thinking about it that wont even change because it is always a player who has graduated) The reason nothing will change is because EA will provide the gameing platform as they do currently with a generic roster with everything mix matched to not even resemble a CFB team, however there is nothing to stop NCAA athletic depts from giving the rights to their logos and the authority to use the SCHOOLS likeness in their game. (meaning EA can create stadiums and team logos without repercussion) Then a week after it comes out some 3rd party will have created rosters with players likeness, sizes, speed, etc. (just like they do now)

In the end EA only creates the platform, 3rd parties change it to make it lifelike. The fully customizable and savable rosters is what makes EA so smart, without that option they may be in hot water, but because they can sell the platform and allow it to be customized this allows the 3rd party market to make it lifelike and thus impossible for Keller/Obannon and anyone else to collect. Its pretty simple.

edit: Technically EA could create one gaming platform and every year a 3rd party could create a new customized roster for people to upload. But EA makes small tweaks to the game play each year to bring people back. So, the argument that people come back for the roster is bogus, because a 3rd party could adjust an NCAA 2010 roster to reflect NCAA 2011 players and you would have the same game only with the new rosters.

The rosters that come ON the platform use the likeness of the student-athletes before 3rd parties ever touch them. They've got position, number, height, weight, build, skin color, physical attributes/skills, even hometown is set so that it resembles a "likeness" to the actual student athlete. Are you really going to tell me that, "QB #3" on Nebraska isn't really Taylor Martinez? Or that "DT #94" isn't Jared Crick? Just because their name isn't on it, or their real picture isn't there? Please.

And yes, EA Sports makes minor tweaks to the game each year. Really stupid, meaningless tweaks that don't improve the game whatsoever. They're like the professors who fix a couple typo's in a textbook, create a few new ones, and come out with a whole new edition so that their new students have to buy the new book, and the old students can't sell their old used one back. It's a scam.

Also, while you can customize and save rosters, you can't use those rosters in online play. And since right now, every hardcore Nebraska fan wants to use Taylor Martinez in the zone read in online play, the only way they can do that (to my knowledge) is if they have the new game. Rosters ARE the reason people buy the new game every year. Not because EA Sports decided to make the field goal net blow in the wind on kickoffs.

While I agree the current NCAA platform uses players likeness, there is nothing to prevent future versions from not using the likeness and still having the same success, due to the fact a 3rd party can and will adjust them. Its a unwinnable battle. EA currently just does the leg work as far as players likeness while a 3rd party finishes off the names and position changes. The point I am making is it wouldnt be difficult if EA were to lose this battle to just release a base platform and let 3rd partiers finish it off with uploadable rosters.

In the end EA will win this going away. Keller and Obannon have a couple lawyers, EA has closets full of them just waiting. EA and the NCAA have dotted their T's and crossed their I's. This is open and shut, the fact that players sign contracts giving the school and the NCAA the right to market their likeness is enough to win, let alone players already receiving a benefit of education that has a monetary value. To win, players in the NCAA would need to form some sort of players association and come up with a contract that would gaurantee a certain percentage of the sales to be paid back to them. This is impossible due to the fact the players on the NCAA level cycle out every 4-5 years.

 

[T_O_Bull]

I am certainly no friend of the NCAA and the BCS. The NCAA is just another government-like agency that has out grown its usefulness.

EA Sports will survive but the young men who are used certainly deserve to be compensated.

T_O_B

:bonesflag:

 

[WashingtonRed]

Sure, give the players compensation, but take away their athletic scholarships. If they can get an academic scholarship great - if not, I hope they can pay the tuition, board, meals, gear, and their weekly stipend with their compensation and not complain. They already get close to $80,000 a year in compensation. If they don't like it, they don't have to play.

 

[Saunders]

I'm a big NCAA fan and really it's not like they are using Keller's photograph as the player picture like in Madden. None of the game models look like their real world counterparts at all. All that is being used is the college's jersey and the number they wore on that jersey. You have to download the rosters from another person, not from EA. Really Keller's argument reads like this "Uhhh, well there is this video game that has the football team I played for... and there is this player that plays quarterback... like I did, and he has the same number that I had, and if someone wants they can change his name to mine."

BINGO. They (wrong) argument I hear all the time in support of Sam (get a job) Keller, is that these are digital "likeness" representations. The problem is, the people making this argument haven't even played, or seen the game. Sure some of the statistics may be close, but facial features aren't even close, and quite often, they aren't even the correct skin color. Last year, HB #19 (Quentin Castille) was white, and TE #81 (Ben Cotton) was black.

The more pertinent question is "Does the game try to match the players actually on the team?" I have and do play the game, and the players are usually the correct listed height, weight, number, and skin color of the actual players. Using a couple examples, which could easily be mistakes by the programmers, does not refute the argument. And arguing the facial features is pretty weak in a game where the players wear helmets and facemasks.

You do realize that in getting things like image releases signed (You know, contractions that allow someone to make a profit using your image), the only thing that matters is if you see someones face, right? Facial recognition is the difference in getting sued or not.

 

[Saunders]

The rosters that come ON the platform use the likeness of the student-athletes before 3rd parties ever touch them. They've got position, number, height, weight, build, skin color, physical attributes/skills, even hometown is set so that it resembles a "likeness" to the actual student athlete. Are you really going to tell me that, "QB #3" on Nebraska isn't really Taylor Martinez? Or that "DT #94" isn't Jared Crick? Just because their name isn't on it, or their real picture isn't there? Please.

And yes, EA Sports makes minor tweaks to the game each year. Really stupid, meaningless tweaks that don't improve the game whatsoever. They're like the professors who fix a couple typo's in a textbook, create a few new ones, and come out with a whole new edition so that their new students have to buy the new book, and the old students can't sell their old used one back. It's a scam.

Also, while you can customize and save rosters, you can't use those rosters in online play. And since right now, every hardcore Nebraska fan wants to use Taylor Martinez in the zone read in online play, the only way they can do that (to my knowledge) is if they have the new game. Rosters ARE the reason people buy the new game every year. Not because EA Sports decided to make the field goal net blow in the wind on kickoffs.

Legally, that's all that matters. When image releases are signed (for photo or video work) all it takes is seeing someones face in the photo or video work. If you don't show their face, you owe them nothing.

Since you're (incorrectly) hammering EA over this issue, let me ask you something. Do you think it's fair that Nebraska is auctioning off game-worn player jerseys? AJ Green from Georgia was suspended for 4 games for doing this very thing.

If you think it's unfair for EA to use generic player models (with close statistics/attributes), then what are your feelings on ESPN/ABC/FSN using actualy photo's and video's of a players likeness to make BILLIONS of dollars. TV money for college sports dwarfs the money EA makes on their video games by a buttload... This is a very slippery slope, with severe consequences.

 

[Hercules]

The rosters that come ON the platform use the likeness of the student-athletes before 3rd parties ever touch them. They've got position, number, height, weight, build, skin color, physical attributes/skills, even hometown is set so that it resembles a "likeness" to the actual student athlete. Are you really going to tell me that, "QB #3" on Nebraska isn't really Taylor Martinez? Or that "DT #94" isn't Jared Crick? Just because their name isn't on it, or their real picture isn't there? Please.

And yes, EA Sports makes minor tweaks to the game each year. Really stupid, meaningless tweaks that don't improve the game whatsoever. They're like the professors who fix a couple typo's in a textbook, create a few new ones, and come out with a whole new edition so that their new students have to buy the new book, and the old students can't sell their old used one back. It's a scam.

Also, while you can customize and save rosters, you can't use those rosters in online play. And since right now, every hardcore Nebraska fan wants to use Taylor Martinez in the zone read in online play, the only way they can do that (to my knowledge) is if they have the new game. Rosters ARE the reason people buy the new game every year. Not because EA Sports decided to make the field goal net blow in the wind on kickoffs.

Legally, that's all that matters. When image releases are signed (for photo or video work) all it takes is seeing someones face in the photo or video work. If you don't show their face, you owe them nothing.

Since you're (incorrectly) hammering EA over this issue, let me ask you something. Do you think it's fair that Nebraska is auctioning off game-worn player jerseys? AJ Green from Georgia was suspended for 4 games for doing this very thing.

If you think it's unfair for EA to use generic player models (with close statistics/attributes), then what are your feelings on ESPN/ABC/FSN using actualy photo's and video's of a players likeness to make BILLIONS of dollars. TV money for college sports dwarfs the money EA makes on their video games by a buttload... This is a very slippery slope, with severe consequences.

If all that matters is whether their picture is being used, or their name, than the term we use to discuss it shouldn't be "likeness." A "likeness" refers to a resemblance, something that's very much like the real thing, but not actually it. That IS what EA Sports is using.

And yeah, there are plenty of organizations who exploit student athletes for money. There's a reason Tom Osborne among others think that student athletes deserve to be paid. The money they make, not anyone else, but THEY make for the university, for TV networks, for retail stores, for EA Sports and others, is completely ridiculous. The entire economy of Nebraska gets better or worse depending on how 18-22 year old student athletes perform on Saturdays. I'm ALL for graduate students getting tuition waivers and stipends for their teaching, but the idea that they do get stipends for their teaching, which is in addition to their own classwork, while athletes aren't paid even a small stipend for the work they do, is insane. I've never met a Physics graduate teaching assistant whose teaching performance would affect the university's funding.

As for the game jerseys, it is hypocritcal of the NCAA to allow a university to sell player-worn jerseys while not allowing the players to do so themselves. The player did the work that makes that jersey worth selling. The university is taking the profit. No one can convince me that that is in any way fair. It's just not. You can't make a perfect system, but you can do better than the one we've got now.