Secondary Play

[RADAR]

Definitely an interesting take. USA went deep over and over on the Blackshirts with seemingly no effort to respond from us, but perhaps testing our corners was part of the plan.

I could see this if we weren't running the same coverage against BYU. Unless we were fine losing a game as long as we didn't tip our hand to future opponents.

So you don't think this staff is capable of holding back schemes for later in the season for specific opponents? McBride did it all the time, worked on schemes all fall and broke them out when needed. These guys have been around the block at least twice, they know better than to show all their cards at once.

Langsdorf said said all fall that he was going to run the fullback and throw to the tightend, yet it really has not happened much yet. I would not be surprised if he did not break out the fullback trap for Miami.

So it's more important to hold some things back for later than it is to win games?

Jesus Mav, come on man. You wouldn't be bitching if we had batted down the Hail Mary. Do you actually believe there was a scheme we could have used on the hail mary that we held back and risked losing? That's insane.

Have I brought up the Hail Mary play anywhere? Are any of the plays we've been going through in great detail the Hail Mary?

I'm talking about the 337 passing yards we gave up BEFORE the Hail Mary. That if we would have played some better defense for the previous 59:59 the Hail Mary could have been inconsequential. So yes, I would have the same complains had we batted down the Hail Mary (other than then it would have just been bad defense, not bad defense that cost us the game).

I would counter, that if we had used better clock management, we win and they never have a chance for the last drive. Or if we convert a third down, we win, we had them beat with the amount of playbook we used, no need to go deeper.

 

[RADAR]

Definitely an interesting take. USA went deep over and over on the Blackshirts with seemingly no effort to respond from us, but perhaps testing our corners was part of the plan.

I could see this if we weren't running the same coverage against BYU. Unless we were fine losing a game as long as we didn't tip our hand to future opponents.

So you don't think this staff is capable of holding back schemes for later in the season for specific opponents? McBride did it all the time, worked on schemes all fall and broke them out when needed. These guys have been around the block at least twice, they know better than to show all their cards at once.

Langsdorf said said all fall that he was going to run the fullback and throw to the tightend, yet it really has not happened much yet. I would not be surprised if he did not break out the fullback trap for Miami.

So it's more important to hold some things back for later than it is to win games?

Jesus Mav, come on man. You wouldn't be bitching if we had batted down the Hail Mary. Do you actually believe there was a scheme we could have used on the hail mary that we held back and risked losing? That's insane.

Have I brought up the Hail Mary play anywhere? Are any of the plays we've been going through in great detail the Hail Mary?

I'm talking about the 337 passing yards we gave up BEFORE the Hail Mary. That if we would have played some better defense for the previous 59:59 the Hail Mary could have been inconsequential. So yes, I would have the same complains had we batted down the Hail Mary (other than then it would have just been bad defense, not bad defense that cost us the game).

I would counter, that if we had used better clock management, we win and they never have a chance for the last drive. Or if we convert a third down, we win, we had them beat with the amount of playbook we used, no need to go deeper. The gameplan was sound, the execution was not.

 

[Mavric]

I would counter, that if we had used better clock management, we win and they never have a chance for the last drive. Or if we convert a third down, we win, we had them beat with the amount of playbook we used, no need to go deeper.

I don't know that that's a counter to my points but I completely agree. I even noted that I said before we attempted the last field goal that I would have gone for it because getting a first down would have won the game - making the FG would not have assured a victory (and, as it turned out, that was correct).

There are other things that could have been done differently that also would have allowed us to win the game. But since this is a thread about Secondary Play, that's what I'm discussing.

 

[True2tRA]

Maybe there are plays where we man on specific plays. I know we go zone when we blitz, especially on our double A Gap Blitz (which isn't as effective as I thought it was going to be).

You and me both.

Every time we blitz the A gap, it's like a tangled mess and no pressure is applied. We're having a lot more success coming around the outside. Even then, those outside blitzes, we don't always get there fast enough.

What are you seeing preventing those A gap blitzes from being more successful? There's no way Valentine and Collins should be getting held up and controlled, but it seems they are. There's just no gap for the Linebackers to get through. Is the lane integrity with the DT's just not what it needs to be? Are they crashing in when they should be going out? You can't tell me the opponents we've faced are skilled enough to handle those guys like that, but they seem to be. I think somebody is doing something wrong.

 

[shyndy]

“Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game.”

“What . . . what game?”

“The only game. The game of thrones football.”

― George R.R. Martin, A Storm of Swords

mike Riley = azor ahai, Lincoln has the salt river, we've added smoke now to the tunnel walk. Born amidst salt and smoke. Gah stop making me cross different worlds together with this!

 

[Enhance]

I think this coaching staff is willing to do whatever it takes to win. Sipple's tweet is hard to gauge without more context. I have a tough time believing the coaches intentionally put the secondary in positions to be exposed unless they were certain the damages wouldn't be that costly. For example, I could see putting the corners in vulnerable situations at the end of the third quarter of the USA game. But, definitely not the first quarter, and definitely not at any point against BYU, unless it was necessary for another schematic advantage.

Hell, on the first drive of the game against USA, Nebraska tried a reverse pass with Turner. If that's not evidence that the coaches are willing to do just about anything, at any time, to win, then I don't know what is.

 

[cg_8]

Maybe there are plays where we man on specific plays. I know we go zone when we blitz, especially on our double A Gap Blitz (which isn't as effective as I thought it was going to be).

You and me both.

Every time we blitz the A gap, it's like a tangled mess and no pressure is applied. We're having a lot more success coming around the outside. Even then, those outside blitzes, we don't always get there fast enough.

What are you seeing preventing those A gap blitzes from being more successful? There's no way Valentine and Collins should be getting held up and controlled, but it seems they are. There's just no gap for the Linebackers to get through. Is the lane integrity with the DT's just not what it needs to be? Are they crashing in when they should be going out? You can't tell me the opponents we've faced are skilled enough to handle those guys like that, but they seem to be. I think somebody is doing something wrong.

I'd say your first point about VV and Collins. They should be doing better. But not necessarily the way you would think. In a way, you'd like them to be controlled, because you want them to create that hole the LB's go through.

Most importantly, I think it's bad timing and lack of disguise. And that might be due to the fact that we haven't really had our true starters on the field at the same time. Here's how MSU runs their double A gap.

It should be noted that that's some bad blocking for one. Cotton does pretty much nothing. Perfect time to run this blitz, because the G pulls and each of the DE's are unblocked. It's a disaster... But it's still effective generally for MSU. MSU's line does a good job of creating a hole for both LB's to get into, but also the LB's timing seems to work well. In our case, I think both of our guys are coming in too close to each other. Take a look at us running it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVEtseJQhHA?t=14m23s

The timing of the LB's seems off. Also, they both are showing that they are blitzing in the A gap, while MSU does a great job of disguising it. Look at MSU presnap. There is almost no indication they are blitzing. While our guys are showing it big time. This gives a big heads up to C who makes a decent block, enough to disrupt both guys. But that timing, they both get block by the Center. Only one should be, and the other has a clear lane, but for some reason, he finds a way to get block by the Center, too. If he were a bit behind the other LB, he's got a clear lane to the QB.

I think they'll get there, but on that play, it would've been effective had they executed it better.

 

[GSG]

“Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game.”

“What . . . what game?”

“The only game. The game of thrones football.”

― George R.R. Martin, A Storm of Swords

mike Riley = azor ahai, Lincoln has the salt river, we've added smoke now to the tunnel walk. Born amidst salt and smoke. Gah stop making me cross different worlds together with this!

Now we're talkin!! +1

 

[Mavric]

[No message]

 

[Mavric]

Where was it that people were laughing at teachercd for saying that Kaaya might throw for 450? He might have been too low.

 

[Warrior10]

From what I've seen JRose is our best CB easily.

 

[obert1]

What ever happened to Charles j?

 

[Mavric]

What ever happened to Charles j?

Has been hurt some but no even close to seeing the field

 

[Warrior10]

Is it safe to say Chris Jones has passed Davie.

 

[Mavric]

Are we still going with the "we're holding things back" theory?