Something that's been bugging me . . .

[BiggerRed]

I have read numerous posts where someone labels Callahan as a good recruiter but a poor coach and I've also seen other posts which mention how Solich's downfall was recruiting. Looking at the classes, I really don't understand this line of thinking.

The NFL doesn't just take good players from winning teams. They take whoever they think can help them. From Solich's final three classes, Nebraska had 11 NFL draft picks, 8 of these in the first 4 rounds. Heck, from the 2002 class alone we had 3 go in the first 4 rounds. In all of Callahan's classes, 3 players have been drafted, 1 in the 1st 4 rounds.

In Callahan's 2005 class, 28% of the class had listed offers from big-time programs (Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma, etc.). In 2003, 32% of Solich's class had listed offers from these same big-time programs.

In all of Callahan's classes, 8 players have received at least 2nd team all-conference recognition. Solich's 2002 class had 7 by itself. Perhaps most telling, Callahan was able to win while he still had a good chunk of players from Solich's classes.

So if Callahan's players haven't proven anything, how do we know that he recruited well? As I have shown, it's not the other offers. It's not conference awards. It's not NFL draft picks. What does that leave, the stars? The measurables? If the only real evidence of Callahan's superior recruiting over Solich is the ranking we receive by the recruiting services or the 40 time that they list, is that really proof? Perhaps in the coming years, players from the 2006-2007 classes will really emerge. I hope so. Until then, can we at least hold off on freaking out because we aren't recruiting like Callahan. That may not be such a bad thing.

 

[HuskerMack]

I have read numerous posts where someone labels Callahan as a good recruiter but a poor coach and I've also seen other posts which mention how Solich's downfall was recruiting. Looking at the classes, I really don't understand this line of thinking.

The NFL doesn't just take good players from winning teams. They take whoever they think can help them. From Solich's final three classes, Nebraska had 11 NFL draft picks, 8 of these in the first 4 rounds. Heck, from the 2002 class alone we had 3 go in the first 4 rounds. In all of Callahan's classes, 3 players have been drafted, 1 in the 1st 4 rounds.

In Callahan's 2005 class, 28% of the class had listed offers from big-time programs (Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma, etc.). In 2003, 32% of Solich's class had listed offers from these same big-time programs.

In all of Callahan's classes, 8 players have received at least 2nd team all-conference recognition. Solich's 2002 class had 7 by itself. Perhaps most telling, Callahan was able to win while he still had a good chunk of players from Solich's classes.

So if Callahan's players haven't proven anything, how do we know that he recruited well? As I have shown, it's not the other offers. It's not conference awards. It's not NFL draft picks. What does that leave, the stars? The measurables? If the only real evidence of Callahan's superior recruiting over Solich is the ranking we receive by the recruiting services or the 40 time that they list, is that really proof? Perhaps in the coming years, players from the 2006-2007 classes will really emerge. I hope so. Until then, can we at least hold off on freaking out because we aren't recruiting like Callahan. That may not be such a bad thing.

People can say what they want about Frank but he was not fired because he couldnt recruit players it was more of his off the field actions that got him canned then anything.

 

[huskerswrkhavoc]

I have read numerous posts where someone labels Callahan as a good recruiter but a poor coach and I've also seen other posts which mention how Solich's downfall was recruiting. Looking at the classes, I really don't understand this line of thinking.

The NFL doesn't just take good players from winning teams. They take whoever they think can help them. From Solich's final three classes, Nebraska had 11 NFL draft picks, 8 of these in the first 4 rounds. Heck, from the 2002 class alone we had 3 go in the first 4 rounds. In all of Callahan's classes, 3 players have been drafted, 1 in the 1st 4 rounds.

In Callahan's 2005 class, 28% of the class had listed offers from big-time programs (Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma, etc.). In 2003, 32% of Solich's class had listed offers from these same big-time programs.

In all of Callahan's classes, 8 players have received at least 2nd team all-conference recognition. Solich's 2002 class had 7 by itself. Perhaps most telling, Callahan was able to win while he still had a good chunk of players from Solich's classes.

So if Callahan's players haven't proven anything, how do we know that he recruited well? As I have shown, it's not the other offers. It's not conference awards. It's not NFL draft picks. What does that leave, the stars? The measurables? If the only real evidence of Callahan's superior recruiting over Solich is the ranking we receive by the recruiting services or the 40 time that they list, is that really proof? Perhaps in the coming years, players from the 2006-2007 classes will really emerge. I hope so. Until then, can we at least hold off on freaking out because we aren't recruiting like Callahan. That may not be such a bad thing.

People can say what they want about Frank but he was not fired because he couldnt recruit players it was more of his off the field actions that got him canned then anything.

BS. It was the fact that he wasn't Pedey's guy... Solich stood no chance from the second we hired Pedey... that's why.

But to comment on the original post.. that's pretty good analysis.. I don't think everyone is freaking out because of the types of players we are bringing in but HOW we are goin about it and the lack of number of commits already... But neither of those bother me to this point so I dont know for sure

 

[lilred]

Something tells me that Callahan liked to sugar coat Nebraska a bit more than Bo.

 

[huskers1]

I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I actually really like Bo's first two classes. I think there is a ton of athleticism and some future stars in Burkhead, Martin, Williams, Ankrah, Qvale, Cody Green, Bell, Compton, Dennard, Reed, Kinnie and PJ Smith. I could also name quite a few players that Callahan recruited that could turn out to be stars as well. Players like Castille, Helu, Prince, Hagg, Lee, Allen, Mcneil, Keith Williams and hopefully Paul and Gillyean. This class isn't shaping up to be a great class right now but like mentioned many times, a lot can happen especially if we have a good season. In Callahans defense he really didn't have a ton of time to develop his players all the way through (seems unlikely that would have happened anyway) seeing as how his first full class in 05' were seniors last year when he was already gone. Callahan IMO was a hell of a recruiter namely his 05' and 07' classes and 08 would have been his best if we would have had a good year. The 05' class turned out to not do much but had big time recruits in Beck, Bowman, Lucky, Jackson, Brooks, Dillard and Suh. Also the 07' class could very well carry us to where we want to be. So I don't agree that Callahan is overrated as a recruiter, just not a very good developer of talent. I also don't agree that this staff can't recruit bc I think they have proven they can find talent and recruit them as well. Might just have to be a little more patient with this class.

 

[BiggerRed]

I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I actually really like Bo's first two classes. I think there is a ton of athleticism and some future stars in Burkhead, Martin, Williams, Ankrah, Qvale, Cody Green, Bell, Compton, Dennard, Reed, Kinnie and PJ Smith. I could also name quite a few players that Callahan recruited that could turn out to be stars as well. Players like Castille, Helu, Prince, Hagg, Lee, Allen, Mcneil, Keith Williams and hopefully Paul and Gillyean. This class isn't shaping up to be a great class right now but like mentioned many times, a lot can happen especially if we have a good season. In Callahans defense he really didn't have a ton of time to develop his players all the way through (seems unlikely that would have happened anyway) seeing as how his first full class in 05' were seniors last year when he was already gone. Callahan IMO was a hell of a recruiter namely his 05' and 07' classes and 08 would have been his best if we would have had a good year. The 05' class turned out to not do much but had big time recruits in Beck, Bowman, Lucky, Jackson, Brooks, Dillard and Suh. Also the 07' class could very well carry us to where we want to be. So I don't agree that Callahan is overrated as a recruiter, just not a very good developer of talent. I also don't agree that this staff can't recruit bc I think they have proven they can find talent and recruit them as well. Might just have to be a little more patient with this class.

So do you consider a recruiting class to be good if we get "big-time" recruits but they don't do much on the field? IMO, a class should only be evaluated by what they do on the field. Last I knew, recruiting was just part of trying to win football games; not a separate game itself. Do recruiting victories matter if they don't translate to wins? Not to me. It seems like more and more fans would rather see a high ranking in February than one in January.

 

[huskers1]

No, you missed my point. I believe the original post was comparing Callahan and Bo and to an extent Solich in terms of recruiting ability. I was saying that Callahan went up against some big boys in 05' and won for the players I mentioned. I also mentioned that I think the 07' class which callahan recruited may very well carry us to the next level. I also mentioned that Callahan wasn't very good at developing talent or "teaching" fundamentals, which could be the reason that his highly ranked players didn't pan out. I do actually judge to an extent how good a recruiting class is as a whole by how they are ranked. Do you think that as a whole a class that is ranked 50th is going to be as good overall as a class that's ranked 10th? Sure, it happens, it obviously did with the 05' class but on average the highly ranked class will be more productive. Recruiting is evaluating, and then getting the players that fit your system, which is what this thread was about I thought. Coaching is a whole other aspect and should be judged in it's own category.

 

[Hunter94]

it has been proven over and over and over again...the top recruiting teams field the top records in wins and losses...sure there are exceptions occasionally, but year in, year out, you have to recruit well to win games and excell.....you can't make steak out of chicken fat!

 

[hskerholic]

it has been proven over and over and over again...the top recruiting teams field the top records in wins and losses...sure there are exceptions occasionally, but year in, year out, you have to recruit well to win games and excell.....you can't make steak out of chicken fat!

So you are saying that ND should have a top record. It looks like to me they are turning steak into chicken fat.

 

[lilred]

it has been proven over and over and over again...the top recruiting teams field the top records in wins and losses...sure there are exceptions occasionally, but year in, year out, you have to recruit well to win games and excell.....you can't make steak out of chicken fat!

So you are saying that ND should have a top record. It looks like to me they are turning steak into chicken fat.

:facepalm: I think you missed this part.

I don't understand why people try to deny this. The teams that recruit the best are generally the best teams.

 

[teachercd]

Lilred, you are right, you need to recruit the best players to win year in and year out. I think what people tend to forget is that lots of players dont make it, they bust out or are just marginal in the end.

BC seemed to have an amazing talent for finding guys that were rated high that ended up being busts or mariginal. The key in any and all good programs is to find players that will NOT be busts.

ND is an amazing example of recruiting busts, you could argue that Texas A&M is the same way, you could argue that for the past 7 years FSU has been the same way, Miami has been similar, great stars that turn into busts.

The key to recruiting is not getting players that are great, the key is getting players that will be great. You cant just be a great recruiter you have to be a great recruiter AND a great evaluator of that talent.

Every year there are tons of busts and tons of players that people never thought would do a thing that are really good or great. Some coaches know how to evaluate talent. Do you ever wonder why some schools pass on one 4 or 5 star guy in favor of another? Its because they evaluate one guy better then the other.

I hope we have a coach right now that can evaluate talent and project how that talent will be down the line.

Recruiting + evaluating = winning

 

[RockyMountainOySker]

Lilred, you are right, you need to recruit the best players to win year in and year out. I think what people tend to forget is that lots of players dont make it, they bust out or are just marginal in the end.

BC seemed to have an amazing talent for finding guys that were rated high that ended up being busts or mariginal................

Recruiting + evaluating + good coaching = winning

fixed it for ya

 

[missouri_husker24]

One thing people overlook about Callahan, he recruited out best athlete on the field last year and this year. Someone who will be a top 5 draft pick next year. Without Suh last year, who knows if we would have finished 9-4.

But I agree there are exceptions. Like previously stated, teams that recruit the big names guys are usually the teams they excel. Sure there are exceptions but its generally how it ends up.

 

[Hunter94]

cally was obsessed with drawing up plays and was beyond player development and fundamentals. he just didn't make time for what was important as a college coach.

 

[ray233]

One thing people overlook about Callahan, he recruited out best athlete on the field last year and this year. Someone who will be a top 5 draft pick next year. Without Suh last year, who knows if we would have finished 9-4.

But I agree there are exceptions. Like previously stated, teams that recruit the big names guys are usually the teams they excel. Sure there are exceptions but its generally how it ends up.

My 2 cents on Suh:

Year 1 (2005) - Knee Surgery/Redshirted

Year 2 (2006) - Showed flashes, not fully acclimated to defensive system, considered disappointing season

Year 3 (2007) - Showed flashes, fully acclimated to defensive system, considered disappointing season

Year 4 (2008) - Coming off knee injury, first year in new defensive system, considered great season

Year 5 (2009) - ???, Pre-season Conference & All-America Awards, Top Draft Prospect

For Suh, the light could have just 'popped on' in 2008, but I would venture to guess that it was the coaching. It's evident that the defense has taken heavily to Pelini's way of doing things and is far better off for doing so.

Callahan recruited Suh, but his staff didn't do much with him. Imagine his progress in 4-5 full years with Pelini & Company, versus if Coz were still around to manage his talent.