[Spoilers] Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

[Landlord]

RE: the discussion on Finn and his adjustment to normal life and that whole character element:

In the canonical 'Before the Awakening' book there is a lot of backstory for the new characters. Finn was trained in a squad of four boys as kids, each with nicknames, except for him, because he was at the top of his class and also an outsider to all the rest of the little stormtrooper buddy kids (aka, the stormtroopers had relatively normal camaraderie with each other growing up). Captain Phasma has extremely high hopes for Finn, but her one problem is that he cares too much. About keeping his squad alive, about going back for his "friends" over completing the mission, that sort of thing. Phasma tells him to stop coddling one of the younger troopers nicknamed Slip, so much.

We don' tknow for sure but think that the trooper that died on Jakku with the bloody handprint was Slip, with that event shattering his faith in the first order. That's also why you see a handful of them scream traitor at him - because they knew him personally, and feel emotional betrayal about it all.

 

[zoogs]

Oh, cool. I wouldn't have figured him for head of the class, nor to have been so personally regarded by Phasma.

I hope we get more Phasma, by the way, but I'm not sure how she gets out. Seems a shame for Brienne of Tarth to get so little screentime.

 

[zoogs]

Love this article: https://www.intelligentlifemagazine.com/culture/the-daily/abrams-makes-star-wars-his-own

In agreeing to make the latest instalment in the series, Abrams took on an entertainment calculus of almost fiendish complexity: satisfy the original fans (including himself), for whom any sequel amounts to a reboot of their childhoods; appeal to a new generation of fans who may well have never seen a “Star Wars” movie; resuscitate the franchise in a way that leaves room for all the forthcoming films Disney has lined up — oh, and bring the whole thing off with something of the original’s heart, humour and esprit de corps.

 

[Redux]

Love this article: https://www.intelligentlifemagazine.com/culture/the-daily/abrams-makes-star-wars-his-own

In agreeing to make the latest instalment in the series, Abrams took on an entertainment calculus of almost fiendish complexity: satisfy the original fans (including himself), for whom any sequel amounts to a reboot of their childhoods; appeal to a new generation of fans who may well have never seen a “Star Wars” movie; resuscitate the franchise in a way that leaves room for all the forthcoming films Disney has lined up — oh, and bring the whole thing off with something of the original’s heart, humour and esprit de corps.

And I think it succeeds at doing all that.

 

[knapplc]

Just watched the movie again. Cemented my thoughts about the flaws in it even more. While it's fun, as a story it's lacking.

Star Wars was great not because the story was so great, but because the visuals were unprecedented. 40 years later, we've seen it and these movies need to have good stories. Unfortunately, the story was nearly 100% rehash, with a few bits about Finn & Rey thrown in to push the story arc along.

 

[ZRod]

Just watched the movie again. Cemented my thoughts about the flaws in it even more. While it's fun, as a story it's lacking.Star Wars was great not because the story was so great, but because the visuals were unprecedented. 40 years later, we've seen it and these movies need to have good stories. Unfortunately, the story was nearly 100% rehash, with a few bits about Finn & Rey thrown in to push the story arc along.

Leave Star Wars alone!!!

 

[Mavric]

Finally gotten around to seeing this last night. Have been trying to catch up with this thread - and several good articles - this morning.

Really having a hard time not calling it disappointing. Really the only reason I won't (quite) go that far is because it basically amounts to a transition movie where you (somewhat) have to explain how we got from where we were to where we're going. Hands are tied in that you have to try to blend the two together so you probably can't do exactly what you want. You can't use the "Once Spock went through the worm hole, the entire time line changed" reboot that Abrams used in Star Trek. However, I still think something different could have been done other than the "let's use nearly the exact same storyline retold" that Abrams used in Star Trek: Into Darkness. It was a little interesting there because of paralleling two story lines in ST:ID but I didn't particularly like it there and I think it was unimaginative here. Not only did Abrams recycle a story-line that was used in two previous Star Wars movies, but he recycled the concept he used int ST:ID.

I didn't particularly care for the premise of the movie - Luke is gone and everyone is looking for him. I'm assuming they were trying to parallel Yoda's self-imposed exile but I don't think it fit. We didn't even know who Yoda was until Luke landed on Dagobah. We were very familiar with Luke's history. I don't see him trying to rebuild the Jedi then simply running away as the "Empire" rebuilds. I would imagine we'll find out more of the backstory in the next movie but it just seemed contrived to me. Especially when he has apparently been gone for some time and someone has the "map" but apparently they've just been sitting on it all this time. Not sure why this story-line had to be recycled as well.

I thought a lot of the movie was very well done but the transitions seemed disjointed and rushed. We had to have some of the backstory of Finn and Rey and we got enough to set the stage. I thought both characters were well represented throughout the movie and are great building blocks for future movies. I thought the initial part of the movie was well developed and set the stage for their adventures going forward.

However, they ran into an issue trying to transition from Jakku to Takodana. They have to find a way to bring Han and Chewbacca into things but it's pretty helter-skelter. They need a ship to get away. Oh look! The Millennium Falcon is sitting right there. And despite living basically her entire life on that planet, Rey is apparently a great pilot. At first I thought perhaps her force-sensitivity could explain it but piloting doesn't really show up anywhere else in the movie and she's not only capable of it but can out-fly two TIE fighters through some very tight spaces. And apparently, despite being nearly consumed with finding the map, when the two TIE fighters fail, Ren and Hux simply give up. There is no effort to intercept the Falcon as it leaves Jakku. At least in ESB they have to fire an ion cannon to clear a path past the waiting Star Destroyers. Still a little far-fetched but at least plausible. Instead they just happen to run into Han. Convenient. And then two other groups also show up at exactly the same time but they don't end up having basically anything to do with the plot other than to be eaten by an octopus on steroids. I understand that part of that scene was likely cut out but that doesn't help the flow. And off we go in the Falcon. Seems like a much more smooth and fitting scenario would have been to have a space port on Jakku where Han happens to be and they run into him while avoiding the Storm Troopers. Han is sympathetic and it's his skill as a pilot that gets them out of there. Rey can still show off her mechanical abilities by helping fix things as they go and it gives Han one last run as an ace pilot, which we don't ever get to see.

I thought the flashback scene with Rey was another good way to give a quick look at the backstory but I don't like the Force working through a lightsaber. I realize this was brought in is some of the novels but seems at odds with anything from any of the other movies. The Force flows through "all living things". I don't think a lightsaber qualifies. Not sure what the alternative was in this case but it didn't seem to fit with the first six movies.

I did like the battle scene on Takodana, especially the X-Wings inbound over the water. I also thought the scenes with Rey and Ren were well-done and worked in Rey discovering her Force powers well.

Pretty much everything about Starkiller was over-done. We need a Death Star but it has to be much more menacing so we'll have it drink stars and destroy entire systems all at once. What's our plan to destroy it? Fly up to it and shoot. OK. Let's go! Even if they started building that thing the day after Death Star II was destroyed I don't think it could have been finished yet. Having it absorb entire stars is over the top. And you don't need to avoid the shields, you just have to fly through them at light speed. Except when you have to have the shields down. Then you just get one person to push one button and all the defenses are turned off. And of course, despite this being a planet-sized station, everyone ended up in exactly the right place. The Ewoks in RotJ may have been corny, but at least there was a story to tell, not just a shortcut.

Han got the (basically) glorious finale that Harrison Ford had wanted since ANH. It transitioned well and helped the development of Ren's character. Wasn't 100% sure about the lightsaber battle between Ren, Rey and Finn but that wasn't a bad way to go. Ren being injured explains some of his disadvantage. And it gave a place to further show Rey's Force Awakening.

Other than the premise, I generally thought the movie was well setup. And a lot of it was developed pretty well. But it seemed like they tried to do too much. Too much story for one movie and too over the top with the Starkiller for it to be gone before it barely got started. But I think the basis for future movies is set up well.

 

[Mavric]

Also, are we all generally under the premise that Ren and Phasma made it off the Starkiller before it exploded? I mean, Ren had to, right? I'm assuming the injuries he suffered pave the way for a move Vader-like existence going forward. But he was left injured in the woods where no one on his side knew where he was as Finn and Rey board the Falcon and barely make it out in time. And I'm not sure what they did with Phasma but if she was locked up at all how did she get out?

I'm not really going to complain as I think both will be good characters to develop going forward but I think it's another example of how the ending was rushed. There'll just be one line in the next movie about how they got out in time and everything will be good to go.

 

[Saunders]

I'm really looking forward to the deleted scenes. There's alot of stuff that was cut out that's in the book that should help flesh out things a bit more.

 

[knapplc]

I'm really looking forward to the deleted scenes. There's alot of stuff that was cut out that's in the book that should help flesh out things a bit more.

Sadly, I don't think those deleted scenes were any kind of accident. I think Disney is going to milk this cow for everything it's worth. Gotta make up that $4.2 billion somehow.

 

[Saunders]

I'm really looking forward to the deleted scenes. There's alot of stuff that was cut out that's in the book that should help flesh out things a bit more.

Sadly, I don't think those deleted scenes were any kind of accident. I think Disney is going to milk this cow for everything it's worth. Gotta make up that $4.2 billion somehow.

I saw a stat that said that they'll break even early this year.

 

[Redux]

This thread is just bumming me out anymore.

 

[zoogs]

Deleted scenes can be cool (see LOTR: Extended Edition) but they don't tend to make a movie better (see same), because they were cut for a reason. The idea of needing to explain everything can drag a movie down (see the prequels).

Also, are we all generally under the premise that Ren and Phasma made it off the Starkiller before it exploded?

[SIZE=13.6px]Ren, yes. Don't ask me how, though! Snoke did order Hux to retrieve him; perhaps he was also able to tell him where. Phasma's situation looks pretty bleak, so that one might be left to the fans. At least it wouldn't be Darth Maul's resurrection, though.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.6px]I think Starkiller Base was done away with a little too easily by the Resistance, but in sum it was little more than a callback in a movie that was foremost about establishing origin stories (and re-origins, for Han -- felt like we learned quite a bit about him). Snoke & the First Order have plans in store, but this wasn't going to a 3-movie tale about how they destroyed the enemy base, which is probably for the best![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.6px]The audience for this movie is not entirely that familiar with Luke's history. Some of us know it very well; others are like, "I know he's that guy with the Vader thing and all that." This isn't just a gap over age lines, it's also across gender (at least). Having the incredible real-life mythos of Star Wars reflected this way in the movie world itself was a great choice. And I think it sets the stage a lot better than "OK, here's Luke & company rocking it, and here's all these other new Jedi, etc", but I suppose that could've been an option. Personally, I feel the actors of two generations ago had their run, and the focus should be elsewhere. I'm not sure how they'll handle Luke and Leia. I hope Luke still ends up a badass, but that he's more of a background, scene-setting presence than a central figure. The Luke Skywalker story has been told.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.6px]I hope that they go one of two ways with Leia: give her a quick passing scene (grief? illness?) and turn the Resistance over to new leadership, maybe Poe -- or, feature her and watch her descend into evil. I have this lovely image of a cloaked, cackling Leia, wracked by her woes and shooting lightning from her fingers at a horrified Rey.

They probably won't do that, but it'd be fun. Through no fault of Carrie Fisher's, Leia's character was never that interesting, unfortunately.[/SIZE]

 

[Mavric]

[SIZE=13.6px]The audience for this movie is not entirely that familiar with Luke's history. Some of us know it very well; others are like, "I know he's that guy with the Vader thing and all that." This isn't just a gap over age lines, it's also across gender (at least). Having the incredible real-life mythos of Star Wars reflected this way in the movie world itself was a great choice. And I think it sets the stage a lot better than "OK, here's Luke & company rocking it, and here's all these other new Jedi, etc", but I suppose that could've been an option. Personally, I feel the actors of two generations ago had their run, and the focus should be elsewhere. I'm not sure how they'll handle Luke and Leia. I hope Luke still ends up a badass, but that he's more of a background, scene-setting presence than a central figure. The Luke Skywalker story has been told.[/SIZE]

Generally, I agree with this. Though if Rey is Luke's daughter (seemly likely), then he's obviously going to be a central figure. Luke destroyed the Empire and helped his daughter destroy the First Order.

 

[zoogs]

Yeah, while watching the movie, I thought, "Oh, cool. She's either a Skywalker or a Solo. I wonder which". Since then, though, I've come to feel strongly that she should be a nobody. The urge to make her another Skywalker is like the pull to the dark side for the movie's creators. A strong temptation, no doubt. I might be seriously disappointed if they can't resist it!

But they've done too well making her an outstanding female lead to flip this on its head and then say, "BIG REVEAL! Her greatness was inherited, not internal." And Disney has been too good about emphasizing strong heroines lately to allow such a development in their Star Wars baby. I hope!