Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

[Enhance]

...but it was a hell of a lot more more fun than TLJ and didn't take itself too seriously.

Agreed, which is exactly what it should have been. TLJ is a solid example of what bad writing will net you.

The lack of fun was one reason I wasn't a big fan of Rogue One either, though. It was too brooding and moody for my tastes.

 

[Ulty]

Agreed, which is exactly what it should have been. TLJ is a solid example of what bad writing will net you.

The lack of fun was one reason I wasn't a big fan of Rogue One either, though. It was too brooding and moody for my tastes.

and see, I loved Rogue One, I rank it among my favorite Star Wars films, right under ESB and ANH. But it was very different than Solo and I enjoyed it for different subjective reasons.

 

[Cdog923]

Solo was entertaining, at least. It felt like a Star Wars movie to me. It felt more like Star Wars than TLJ did, IMO.

Solo was a fun movie. It will not go down as one of the all time great films in cinema history, but it was a hell of a lot more more fun than TLJ and didn't take itself too seriously. Even better, it told its story without screwing up other parts of Star Wars canon.

Agreed, which is exactly what it should have been. TLJ is a solid example of what bad writing will net you.

The lack of fun was one reason I wasn't a big fan of Rogue One either, though. It was too brooding and moody for my tastes.

and see, I loved Rogue One, I rank it among my favorite Star Wars films, right under ESB and ANH. But it was very different than Solo and I enjoyed it for different subjective reasons.

I agree with virtually all of this. Solo was much more enjoyable than The Last Jedi; I still haven't watched TLJ other than the time I saw it in the theater. 

Rogue One also had it's moments, but it's much more Star Wars than TLJ was, as well. The last 10 minutes are my favorite Star Wars anything since Return of the Jedi. 

 

[Mavric]

The hype for the new trailer made me go back and finally watch Solo. It wasn't as bad as I heard/feared. 

Piling on but I actually enjoyed Solo as well.  Possibly because it didn't have any back-story to try to match up with (which is a lot of the problem with TFA and TLJ) - it only had to point to a "future" character.  

But I thought it was much better than TLJ and probably a bit better than TFA.

 

[Landlord]

There are enough redeeming factors of all the new gen Star Wars movie that I enjoy and appreciate them all. 

TFA was fantastic because it served as a much needed (imo) reset back to the spirit of Star Wars. Dirty lived in galaxy, practical effects, fanciful creatures and creations, and the pacing and score were fantastic. Plus, even though it's not all that original, the story works. That Abrams recycled tropes was totally fine with me in that regard. 

Rogue One was a bit somber and moody for my preference, but it gave us some fresh new takes on the universe including I think inarguably the best 'warfare' conflict we've seen on the screen from SW. The cinematography was also by a landslide the best we've ever seen in SW.

TLJ ultimately failed at its goal, but I give it credit for the audacity to try and to do some things really well. I appreciated that Rian was trying to inject new and more nuanced ideas - less nostalgia porn, less binary good vs evil, less leaning on the past; these are all things I appreciate in story but were executed poorly. I love the idea of a Star Wars/jedi story that is more of a meritocratic spirit that anyone can become something great rather than your lineage or name defines you. Its too bad they didn't accomplish it but it's still fine and far better than any prequel imo. Also thought the humor was very well done.

Solo is a fun popcorn flick. That's all it's trying to be and it does it well (most good movies are good because they know and believe what they're supposed to be; that's why even absolutely absurd movies like the later Fast & Furious sequels are well regarded and such a blast). That actor did a really good job playing a young Solo too, which I was skeptical about.

 

[RedDenver]

TLJ ultimately failed at its goal, but I give it credit for the audacity to try and to do some things really well. I appreciated that Rian was trying to inject new and more nuanced ideas - less nostalgia porn, less binary good vs evil, less leaning on the past; these are all things I appreciate in story but were executed poorly. I love the idea of a Star Wars/jedi story that is more of a meritocratic spirit that anyone can become something great rather than your lineage or name defines you. Its too bad they didn't accomplish it but it's still fine and far better than any prequel imo. Also thought the humor was very well done.

TLJ failed because it was completely out of place as episode 8 in a 9 episode arch about the Skywalkers. Rian Johnson and Disney Co. wrote an interesting story that didn't fit at all with the characters that had been established over 7 previous movies and decades of pop culture. Plus ridiculous gaffes like Leia Poppins and pointless fetch quests don't help.

 

[Cdog923]

TLJ failed because it was completely out of place as episode 8 in a 9 episode arch about the Skywalkers. Rian Johnson and Disney Co. wrote an interesting story that didn't fit at all with the characters that had been established over 7 previous movies and decades of pop culture. Plus ridiculous gaffes like Leia Poppins and pointless fetch quests don't help.

Johnson tried to deconstruct a universe that didn't need deconstructed; a great example of how to properly do this is Thor: Ragnarok.

 

[Redux]

TLJ failed because it was completely out of place as episode 8 in a 9 episode arch about the Skywalkers. Rian Johnson and Disney Co. wrote an interesting story that didn't fit at all with the characters that had been established over 7 previous movies and decades of pop culture. Plus ridiculous gaffes like Leia Poppins and pointless fetch quests don't help.

People say TLJ was poorly written, I disagree.  I think if you took the same movie and made it a standalone with different characters we didn't know, it would have been a lot more accepted.

 

[NUinID]

There are enough redeeming factors of all the new gen Star Wars movie that I enjoy and appreciate them all. 

TFA was fantastic because it served as a much needed (imo) reset back to the spirit of Star Wars. Dirty lived in galaxy, practical effects, fanciful creatures and creations, and the pacing and score were fantastic. Plus, even though it's not all that original, the story works. That Abrams recycled tropes was totally fine with me in that regard. 

Rogue One was a bit somber and moody for my preference, but it gave us some fresh new takes on the universe including I think inarguably the best 'warfare' conflict we've seen on the screen from SW. The cinematography was also by a landslide the best we've ever seen in SW.

TLJ ultimately failed at its goal, but I give it credit for the audacity to try and to do some things really well. I appreciated that Rian was trying to inject new and more nuanced ideas - less nostalgia porn, less binary good vs evil, less leaning on the past; these are all things I appreciate in story but were executed poorly. I love the idea of a Star Wars/jedi story that is more of a meritocratic spirit that anyone can become something great rather than your lineage or name defines you. Its too bad they didn't accomplish it but it's still fine and far better than any prequel imo. Also thought the humor was very well done.

Solo is a fun popcorn flick. That's all it's trying to be and it does it well (most good movies are good because they know and believe what they're supposed to be; that's why even absolutely absurd movies like the later Fast & Furious sequels are well regarded and such a blast). That actor did a really good job playing a young Solo too, which I was skeptical about.

Been reading all of this.  I pretty much agree with all you are saying. Your 3rd paragraph basically sums up the way I feel about TLJ.  Your explanation is why a lot of the critics liked it to a degree and all the fan boys didn't.  He tried to do something different it didn't work with fans that have built up what it should have been in their minds are really pissed about.  

I have seen all of the Star Wars movies I saw the first in 1977 when I was 11 years old.  To me they have all always been popcorn movies.  The whole myth of Star Wars has been built up by fans not George Lucas.  Good adventures that should't be taken too seriously.  Some are better than others TLJ wasn't as good as some.  It was still better than Attack of the Clones. 

 

[Enhance]

People say TLJ was poorly written, I disagree.  I think if you took the same movie and made it a standalone with different characters we didn't know, it would have been a lot more accepted.

Personally, when I say I think it had bad writing, I don't think it had bad writing for a Star Wars movie. I think it had bad writing as a movie. So, to me, different characters and a different setting wouldn't have in any way altered how I feel about it.

 

[Mavric]

People say TLJ was poorly written, I disagree.  I think if you took the same movie and made it a standalone with different characters we didn't know, it would have been a lot more accepted.

This is exactly the problem.  It was a total discongruity from the eight movies that came before it.  I (literally) tossed away the previous story lines and tried to start over.  That's why it was so poorly received.

It would have been fine if it was a totally separate story.  But it wasn't - at least the vast majority of fans didn't want/expect it to be.

 

[knapplc]

This is exactly the problem.  It was a total discongruity from the eight movies that came before it.  I (literally) tossed away the previous story lines and tried to start over.  That's why it was so poorly received.

It would have been fine if it was a totally separate story.  But it wasn't - at least the vast majority of fans didn't want/expect it to be.

And the crazy thing about this is, Disney spent four billion dollars on a franchise beloved the world over, and then allowed that to happen. It makes no sense to me that they would spend all that money and be such poor stewards of the story.

 

[Cdog923]

And the crazy thing about this is, Disney spent four billion dollars on a franchise beloved the world over, and then allowed that to happen. It makes no sense to me that they would spend all that money and be such poor stewards of the story.

It's because they thought that because it's Star Wars, that it would print money and be universally loved (only one of those is true). Kathleen Kennedy is no Kevin Feige, either. 

 

[Redux]

Personally, when I say I think it had bad writing, I don't think it had bad writing for a Star Wars movie. I think it had bad writing as a movie. So, to me, different characters and a different setting wouldn't have in any way altered how I feel about it.

Gotta again disagree.  If this were a side story with different characters and villains, that happened between TFA and whatever Ep. 8 would have been, it would have worked.  So much happens yet nothing happens in this movie.  Take out the Luke and Rey stuff.  Replace Finn and Poe with a couple other characters.  Add in the Knights of Ren as the bad guys plus some other weird sorcerer to replace Snoke.  This whole thing works as an off shoot.

To be completely honest, keep everything the exact same but make this a video game instead of a movie.  The pacing works, the twists work, the story works.  As a game this would have been an instant classic.  As a movie, it feels like it wasted an important part furthering a story.

 

[RedDenver]

It's because they thought that because it's Star Wars, that it would print money and be universally loved (only one of those is true). Kathleen Kennedy is no Kevin Feige, either. 

I'm surprised Kathleen Kennedy is still in charge of Star Wars.

Gotta again disagree.  If this were a side story with different characters and villains, that happened between TFA and whatever Ep. 8 would have been, it would have worked.  So much happens yet nothing happens in this movie.  Take out the Luke and Rey stuff.  Replace Finn and Poe with a couple other characters.  Add in the Knights of Ren as the bad guys plus some other weird sorcerer to replace Snoke.  This whole thing works as an off shoot.

To be completely honest, keep everything the exact same but make this a video game instead of a movie.  The pacing works, the twists work, the story works.  As a game this would have been an instant classic.  As a movie, it feels like it wasted an important part furthering a story.

While I mostly agree with you, TLJ still has some internal inconsistencies like the theme of no good and no evil throughout the movie that's suddenly abandoned at the end. Wisecrack does a good job of explaining what I mean: