Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker
- Thread starter Mavric
- Start date
I agree with this.
Although - from what I've read - they did their best to try to undo it in TRoS.
Redux
Donor
I hope so. I unfortunately don't get to go tonight and tomorrow doesn't look promising. May have to avoid social media.
Cdog923
New member
Alright, here's what I mulled around last night while watching TLJ to prep for RoS: (this might get long, TL;DR at the bottom).
1. Snoke is Darth Plagueis, the Sith Lord that Palpatine talked about in RotS. However, he's not real, either: he's a Force Ghost that can interact with the corporeal world (similar to what Yoda does in TLJ). This makes him incredibly strong, as he can't be fought on the physical plane, but is essentially the most powerful Force user we've seen. Also, he isn't unceremoniously killed halfway through the movie.
2. Luke doesn't "run away and hide", he doesn't give up on the Force, and he doesn't pull a lightsaber on Ben. After Snoke turns Ben, Luke realizes that Snoke is more powerful than he is, and in order to defeat him (and turn Ben back to the light), he leaves the New Republic to search for the Ancient Jedi Texts. He doesn't take any way to track him, so Snoke can't find him; the map in TFA is to find Luke in case he's needed to return before he's ready.
3. Rey, Chewie and Artoo are sent to find Luke due to the events of TFA, but Luke can't find the answer to beating Snoke, and won't waste time training Rey. (You could also tie in Luke's insecurities about being a teacher here, as the last student he taught (his nephew) turned against him.) However, this is where Yoda pops in to give his old Padawan one more lesson: how become one with the Force, and battle Snoke Ghost to Ghost. He agrees to train Rey at this point, and while in a light saber duel, pulls an Obi Wan and has Rey strike him down, becoming more powerful than both of them could ever imagine.
4. Tie this into the Rey/Kylo Ren dynamic, which was the best part of the film. Have them keep trying to turn one another, with this being the pivot point on which the war moves.
Sideplots:
1. Ditch most of the slow chase that permeates the movie. Have the FO Flagship destroy the bridge of the Resistance's Flagship, but Leia uses the Force to hold the bridge together, allowing our principles (Poe, Finn, BB-8, Threepio) to escape. (This is where Leia dies, mostly due to the unfortunate passing of Carrie Fisher, but it's also a better example of how strong of a Force Adept she is). Holdo assumes command, and the Resistance escapes to Crait, with the FO on their trail.
2. Due to the New Republic getting blown up, the Resistance is running low on supplies and support. A new energy source is found outside the Outer Rim, and Poe, Finn and BB-8 volunteer to go get it; we get rid of the Casino storyline and the Holdo/Poe storyline, as well as keeping Holdo alive. This is where we tie Luke and Rey back in with everyone else, as you can end the movie somewhat the same, with the Resistance trapped on Crait, with Kylo Ren bearing down to end them. Ghost Luke shows up and holds off Ren while Rey helps everyone escape out the back door. Snoke, being able to sense Luke, ghosts to Crait, but finds out that Luke can now fight him, causing him and Kylo to regroup and retreat.
3. When Poe, Finn and BB-8 make it to the Outer Rim, they find multiple energy sources, but it's an armada of Star Destroyers being led by Force Ghost Palpatine.
This sets up Rise of Skywalker to be Resistance vs. First Order vs. the Empire, allowing for an epic battle between Snoke, Luke and Palpatine, while also keeping focus on the dynamic between Rey and Kylo.
TL;DR:
- Snoke is a Force Ghosted Darth Plagueis who can use the Force IRL, and doesn't get killed.
- Luke needs to become a Force Ghost to stop him IRL, but doesn't know this until Yoda shows up
- Luke trains Rey, but has her kill him to become a Force Ghost
- Poe and Finn go looking for supplies, but find the Emperor Force Ghosted on the Outer Rim
- Leia dies saving everyone
- Rise of Skywalker is a Triple Threat match.
Thoughts? We could turn this into it's own thread if necessary.
1. Snoke is Darth Plagueis, the Sith Lord that Palpatine talked about in RotS. However, he's not real, either: he's a Force Ghost that can interact with the corporeal world (similar to what Yoda does in TLJ). This makes him incredibly strong, as he can't be fought on the physical plane, but is essentially the most powerful Force user we've seen. Also, he isn't unceremoniously killed halfway through the movie.
2. Luke doesn't "run away and hide", he doesn't give up on the Force, and he doesn't pull a lightsaber on Ben. After Snoke turns Ben, Luke realizes that Snoke is more powerful than he is, and in order to defeat him (and turn Ben back to the light), he leaves the New Republic to search for the Ancient Jedi Texts. He doesn't take any way to track him, so Snoke can't find him; the map in TFA is to find Luke in case he's needed to return before he's ready.
3. Rey, Chewie and Artoo are sent to find Luke due to the events of TFA, but Luke can't find the answer to beating Snoke, and won't waste time training Rey. (You could also tie in Luke's insecurities about being a teacher here, as the last student he taught (his nephew) turned against him.) However, this is where Yoda pops in to give his old Padawan one more lesson: how become one with the Force, and battle Snoke Ghost to Ghost. He agrees to train Rey at this point, and while in a light saber duel, pulls an Obi Wan and has Rey strike him down, becoming more powerful than both of them could ever imagine.
4. Tie this into the Rey/Kylo Ren dynamic, which was the best part of the film. Have them keep trying to turn one another, with this being the pivot point on which the war moves.
Sideplots:
1. Ditch most of the slow chase that permeates the movie. Have the FO Flagship destroy the bridge of the Resistance's Flagship, but Leia uses the Force to hold the bridge together, allowing our principles (Poe, Finn, BB-8, Threepio) to escape. (This is where Leia dies, mostly due to the unfortunate passing of Carrie Fisher, but it's also a better example of how strong of a Force Adept she is). Holdo assumes command, and the Resistance escapes to Crait, with the FO on their trail.
2. Due to the New Republic getting blown up, the Resistance is running low on supplies and support. A new energy source is found outside the Outer Rim, and Poe, Finn and BB-8 volunteer to go get it; we get rid of the Casino storyline and the Holdo/Poe storyline, as well as keeping Holdo alive. This is where we tie Luke and Rey back in with everyone else, as you can end the movie somewhat the same, with the Resistance trapped on Crait, with Kylo Ren bearing down to end them. Ghost Luke shows up and holds off Ren while Rey helps everyone escape out the back door. Snoke, being able to sense Luke, ghosts to Crait, but finds out that Luke can now fight him, causing him and Kylo to regroup and retreat.
3. When Poe, Finn and BB-8 make it to the Outer Rim, they find multiple energy sources, but it's an armada of Star Destroyers being led by Force Ghost Palpatine.
This sets up Rise of Skywalker to be Resistance vs. First Order vs. the Empire, allowing for an epic battle between Snoke, Luke and Palpatine, while also keeping focus on the dynamic between Rey and Kylo.
TL;DR:
- Snoke is a Force Ghosted Darth Plagueis who can use the Force IRL, and doesn't get killed.
- Luke needs to become a Force Ghost to stop him IRL, but doesn't know this until Yoda shows up
- Luke trains Rey, but has her kill him to become a Force Ghost
- Poe and Finn go looking for supplies, but find the Emperor Force Ghosted on the Outer Rim
- Leia dies saving everyone
- Rise of Skywalker is a Triple Threat match.
Thoughts? We could turn this into it's own thread if necessary.
Landlord
Banned
It started with logical inconsistencies and poor production in the action set pieces, and snowballed from there.
This guy is hilarious and his videos were a main reason I came around.
whateveritis1224
New member
I don't think TLJ needed this huge change in story, just small things to the existing story could have made it better.
An idea I read to improve the Canto Bight side story is simply flip Poe and Finn. Poe has a very high level look at the Resistance and I can easily see him forgetting about the small people, the slaves used to prop up the elite. Poe has something to learn from Rose, Finn really doesn't. On the other hand, Holdo has absolutely no reason to trust Finn. He's the only stormtrooper we've seen defect. You can easily see him as being a spy from the outside, especially after experiencing something that had never happened before (hyperspace tracking).
Or heck, just have Poe and Finn go on an adventure together. Will always believe Mr. Johnson is a lazy writer for the simple quote that he couldn't differentiate their voices. They sounded the same in his script. Doesn't matter that they come from two completely different backgrounds and have two completely different experiences in fighting (a child soldier and someone who grew up with the freedom to choose to fight who is a son of Rebellion soldiers).
My biggest issue, though, is that Rey and Luke had zero interactions that ended positively. A simple fix is a time skip. But they had to have the cheap gag (undercutting the tension of TFAs end) of tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder. If Rey is stuck on Ach-to with a Luke who does not want to help her, then her lonliness and reaching out to Kylo makes more sense. It also puts distance between what Kylo did to Rey in TFA. As is, its 48 hours since Kylo kidnapped and mind raped her.
whateveritis1224
New member
Just got out and I have a lot to unpack.
The Leia stuff just felt off to me. It felt too much like a soundboard. Kudos to what they did, but the dialogue around her scenes just felt off, like they worked too hard to write set ups to the footage they had.
The trio stuff worked great though. Oscar, John, and Daisy worked well together.
Some reveals were a little too heavy handed in the dialogue. Like the reveal in the hanger where Kylo said one thing, we understood what he meant, and then reiterated the point with 100% clarity.
For rankings of movies after the Disney purchase, I'd put it 4th (TFA, Solo, RO, ROS, TLJ). I definitely like it better than TLJ because I felt something more than disappointment, but the story was a little too choppy in the last hour.
The Leia stuff just felt off to me. It felt too much like a soundboard. Kudos to what they did, but the dialogue around her scenes just felt off, like they worked too hard to write set ups to the footage they had.
The trio stuff worked great though. Oscar, John, and Daisy worked well together.
Some reveals were a little too heavy handed in the dialogue. Like the reveal in the hanger where Kylo said one thing, we understood what he meant, and then reiterated the point with 100% clarity.
For rankings of movies after the Disney purchase, I'd put it 4th (TFA, Solo, RO, ROS, TLJ). I definitely like it better than TLJ because I felt something more than disappointment, but the story was a little too choppy in the last hour.
Cdog923
New member
I might put it second behind Rogue One. It's not *quite* as blatant of a copy of RotJ like TFA is with ANH, but they are close.
My list as of now: it's subject to change with more RoS viewings:
1. Empire
2. RotJ
3. ANH
4. RO
5. RotS
6. RoS
7. TFA
8. Solo
9a. TLJ
9b. PM
11. AotC
Landlord
Banned
In what ways is it a Jedi copy?
The Empire Strikes Back
The Force Awakens
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
The Rise of Skywalker
Solo
The Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith
The Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
would be my list
whateveritis1224
New member
Solo gets a bad rap based on it being a movie that was actually just unneeded (on top of all the production issues and firing of well liked directors halfway through). But I watched it on Sunday and its just a fun movie in the Star Wars universe. The only cringe worthy part is the Imperial guy giving Han his last name. Maybe if it wasn't released in between Deadpool 2 and Infinity War, on top of the quick turnaround after TLJs release, it might have made more money (talking about TLJs backlash, not so much SW fatigue).
In a lot of ways, TROS is the same (enjoyable, fun ride). But the story had a lot issues because I think JJ was course correcting back to what his original plan was.
***TROS spoilers***
I can very easily see Snoke using Kylo and Rey to heal himself in the way Palpatine did. No Snoke, means that they have to spend time on Palpatine explanations.
