Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***

knapplc said:
But just so we're clear, while this may have been your mindset for that movie, that was 100% not my mindset going into TLJ. 

Why would anyone care if I said TLJ is a bad movie? 
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I guess to me there is a big difference between not liking something and saying it is bad.  You can not like something for all sorts of different reasons but that doesn't mean it is inherently bad.  

Comparing a movie to a football team is not a good analogy.  Football is quantifiable, Nebraska was not a good football team, their record was 4-8.  A film is not quantifiable it is not a bad film just because you say it is.  

 
NUinID said:
it is not a bad film just because you say it is.  
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Actually, it is. 

The goodness or badness of anything, from a football team to a film to a relationship to a car to a meal to a brand of beer, is all good or bad because we say it is.  Our tastes may not align, you may like a beer I think is bad, but I can say it's bad beer with equal rightness to you saying it's good beer.  And here's the kicker - we're both right. 

It almost seems as if the approach here is that if anyone says it's a bad film, the enjoyment of the film is lessened for someone else.  How can that be? 

 
knapplc said:
It almost seems as if the approach here is that if anyone says it's a bad film, the enjoyment of the film is lessened for someone else.  How can that be? 
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My 2nd viewing of TFA was far less enjoyable, why?  Because I first saw it the night before it released and absolutely loved it.  Then for the next several months I listened to people tearing it apart for beimg too much like ANH, for not being enough like ESB, for being too familiar, for bot being familiar ebough, for killing Hon Solo, etc.  So, when I finally watched it again on my Blu Ray copy, it wasn't nearly as fun.  The voices s#!tting on it were far louder than those praising it, as is with most forms of entertainment.

I watched it for the 3rd time last Thursday before going to see TLJ.  Guess what?  Hands down my favorite viewing of the film.  I'm planning to go see TLJ again tomorrow night, fingers crossed.  My expectation?  To not enjoy it as much becase so many people have s#!t all over it.  I'll still like it and rank it highly in the franchise, but yes people constantly sayong something is bad or sucks definitely has a direct impact.

 
Saw TLJ again, and loved it even more the 2nd time around and here's why:

1. It reinforced the idea that people from nothing and nowhere can be difference makers.

2. It showed that this trilogy is ever so slowly, diverging from the initial trilogy.  TFA was nearly a shot for shot remake of ANH.  The second film, TLJ, halfway mirrors TESB by borrowing, and re-using many concepts but also diverging from them significantly in outcome.  I fully expect Episode IX to be a little like ROTJ, but far more different in almost all respects.  I see this progression as Disney using the past films to anchor this new trilogy, and use it as a springboard for a plethora of new stories and characters.  I think it's a smart tactic and a great way to proceed.

3. The theme of (Laura Dern's character) desiring more to keep hope alive than being seen as a hero is, to me, the central most important aspect to this film.  Her decision to use the last Resistance frigate to destroy Snoke's ship, was so brilliantly conceived.  She simply did what was needed to be done and she didn't flinch even when she knew it was the end of her.  With the way TLJ ended, it reminded me of the oft used phrase--it's always darkest just before the dawn.

Looking forward to Episode IX, the only "expectation" I have is to see Ren and Rey have the most epic, lightsaber/force battle that has ever been filmed.  I say that because the first two films have set the table for Ren and Rey to be the most powerful users of the force ever.  Luke said to Rey (commenting on her sheer raw strength), "...I've seen that much raw strength once before.  It didn't scare me then, but it does now."

4. The casino scene drove home the point that it doesn't matter how much pain, turmoil, or death the under-class experiences, those at the top are never really affected.  If that's not a mirror to our real life society, I'm not sure what is.

 
Redux said:
My 2nd viewing of TFA was far less enjoyable, why?  Because I first saw it the night before it released and absolutely loved it.  Then for the next several months I listened to people tearing it apart for beimg too much like ANH, for not being enough like ESB, for being too familiar, for bot being familiar ebough, for killing Hon Solo, etc.  So, when I finally watched it again on my Blu Ray copy, it wasn't nearly as fun.  The voices s#!tting on it were far louder than those praising it, as is with most forms of entertainment.

I watched it for the 3rd time last Thursday before going to see TLJ.  Guess what?  Hands down my favorite viewing of the film.  I'm planning to go see TLJ again tomorrow night, fingers crossed.  My expectation?  To not enjoy it as much becase so many people have s#!t all over it.  I'll still like it and rank it highly in the franchise, but yes people constantly sayong something is bad or sucks definitely has a direct impact.
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That is 100% a you problem.

Don't let people live in your head like that. Like what you like and don't sweat the opinions of others.

 
Enhance said:
The Last Jedi Killed My Childhood, and That's Exactly Why It's Great
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This article, having read it after what I posted, sums up pretty much why this newest trilogy is so amazing.

I've said in previous posts that these new films are not for people my age, who were there for the first three films.  These films are meant for the newest generation of kids.  To make a Star Wars that they can latch onto.  I 100% concur and agree with the author of the link Enhance quoted.  These films are the bridge to a new, bigger, better, and more expanded Star Wars Universe.

 
knapplc said:
That is 100% a you problem.

Don't let people live in your head like that. Like what you like and don't sweat the opinions of others.
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See the walking dead thread.  I didn't say it ruined it.  I don't think I'm alone here, it's hard not to hear the countless criticisms and comments upon future viewings.

I don't like IPA beer.  I think it sucks.  A lot of people like it.  So me saying it's bad doesn't make it bad, just like you saying TLJ is bad doesn't make it bad.  I am curious though, you say you went in wanting to like it, what was the tipping point?

 
I'm sure you wanted to enjoy TLJ, but I think how you were going to feel about this franchise was clear ever since your response to TFA. Everything they're trying to do here just doesn't really float your boat.

Undoubtedly there will eventually be a Star Wars creation with a purpose and vision that suits you. I think they're going to explore this universe pretty thoroughly, with every conceivable style and flavor, in the coming years/decades/etc. Some of those probably won't be for me, either. I wasn't too hot about Rogue One.

 
Redux said:
it's hard not to hear the countless criticisms and comments upon future viewings.
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It's not.  It may take some practice, but it's really not difficult.

Redux said:
I don't like IPA beer.  I think it sucks.  A lot of people like it.
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Good on you for knowing your tastes. 

Redux said:
So me saying it's bad doesn't make it bad
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To you it's bad. 

Redux said:
you saying TLJ is bad doesn't make it bad
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To me it's bad, and it is.  To you it isn't.  It's like we're different people with different tastes or something. 

And that's OK.

Redux said:
you say you went in wanting to like it, what was the tipping point?
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Couldn't tell you.  Dozens of little things.

 
zoogs said:
I think how you were going to feel about this franchise was clear ever since your response to TFA
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Then why did I like Rogue One so much?

This argument holds no water.  If I didn't like the franchise I wouldn't have bought TLJ tickets a month in advance and made it an event. 

 
By "franchise", I mean this trilogy specifically. You were extremely underwhelmed by TFA, and this movie was a continuation and development of it. Rogue One....was not. 

Likewise, I think you'll enjoy some of the other spinoffs they have planned a lot more than Episode IX. Possibly Rian Johnson's new trilogy as well. For whatever reason, this one isn't your cup of tea. I dunno why, but eye of the beholder and all that. I'm not here to tell you you are wrong for not liking the 7-8-9 series.

 
Redux said:
So you won't watch it again, ever?
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I may watch it again as soon as Christmas Day.  Family stuff.  We'll see.

zoogs said:
By "franchise", I mean this trilogy specifically. You were extremely underwhelmed by TFA, and this movie was a continuation and development of it.
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Ah.  That, you may be correct on.  But I didn't buy tickets for this movie expecting to hate it. Why would I waste my money on that? 

 
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