Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***
- Thread starter Mavric
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Mierin
Assistant Coach
Man, y'all are dealing in absolutes here.
The new movies are NOT bad movies. They are also NOT on par with IV, V, and VI -- this is not just because we're grown ups now. They are just not as good. The reason I feel this way is because 90% of the movies I loved as a kid SUCK now to me as an adult. Only a handful are still good. All 3 Star Wars movies, The Goonies, and maybe a couple others I can't recall off hand. The new SW movies have way too many winks to the fans (probably because it's fans making them) which take me out of the story. VIII was a lot worse than VII in this regard, imo.
I can understand thinking they're bad compared to the originals, and maybe wouldn't be your favorite Sci Fi, but they aren't bad. I've seen bad Sci Fi movies, and these aren't even close. As standalones they would be good.
Now to comment on the George Lucas stuff. The problem with George Lucas is he let the success go to his head and thought everything he touched was gold, and that's how we got I-III (agree that III was very good). It's also how the moment in Return of the Jedi where Vader kills Palpatine was ruined with Vader shouting "NOOOoooooOOOOOooooo." I imagine no one was willing to tell the great George Lucas "this isn't great" because he was a god at that point.
The same thing happened with my favorite author. I don't think it was so much that he had a huge ego, but he thought because people loved his first 6 books that he was really good at writing about anything, including how salt was mined... and his wife was his editor.
The new movies are NOT bad movies. They are also NOT on par with IV, V, and VI -- this is not just because we're grown ups now. They are just not as good. The reason I feel this way is because 90% of the movies I loved as a kid SUCK now to me as an adult. Only a handful are still good. All 3 Star Wars movies, The Goonies, and maybe a couple others I can't recall off hand. The new SW movies have way too many winks to the fans (probably because it's fans making them) which take me out of the story. VIII was a lot worse than VII in this regard, imo.
I can understand thinking they're bad compared to the originals, and maybe wouldn't be your favorite Sci Fi, but they aren't bad. I've seen bad Sci Fi movies, and these aren't even close. As standalones they would be good.
Now to comment on the George Lucas stuff. The problem with George Lucas is he let the success go to his head and thought everything he touched was gold, and that's how we got I-III (agree that III was very good). It's also how the moment in Return of the Jedi where Vader kills Palpatine was ruined with Vader shouting "NOOOoooooOOOOOooooo." I imagine no one was willing to tell the great George Lucas "this isn't great" because he was a god at that point.
The same thing happened with my favorite author. I don't think it was so much that he had a huge ego, but he thought because people loved his first 6 books that he was really good at writing about anything, including how salt was mined... and his wife was his editor.
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Mierin
Assistant Coach
I'm not really talking about rehashing. None of that really bothered me in VII. The throne room bothered me in VIII. I'll need to see it again (and I will probably see it again in the theatre, 'cause I liked it). There were a couple Luke lines that felt to me they were written directly to the fans. Like he was having an inside joke with the audience. It irritated me.
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Ulty
All-Conference
My long-winded review: I have a long term emotional investment in Star Wars. It was a huge part of my childhood. Probably unhealthy, but anyway...
The worst thing about the prequel trilogy, was that it de-valued the original trilogy. It created too many unnecessary plot holes and neutered the Darth Vader character so much that it reduces the impact of the beloved, original movies. I love the original trilogy so much and hate the prequels so much that if you were to tell me that you like the prequels, I will forever be unable to respect you or your opinions.
Now, the Force Awakens was a fine movie; not great, but quite entertaining and a good intro to some interesting new characters and a new generation. TFA had a bunch of unanswered questions and issues that needed to be addressed by The Last Jedi, and so this new trilogy totally hinged on Episode 8’s ability to build upon Episode 7. It did not.
Much like 1, 2, and 3 devalued 4, 5, and 6, The Last Jedi devalued the Force Awakens. The entire plot of TFA was made irrelevant. Snoke and Kylo were obsessed with finding Luke. Why? Who was Snoke? Eh, who cares, Snoke’s dead. No insight. It’s almost as if Rian Johnson told JJ Abrams that he didn’t like his ideas so he was going to go a totally different direction. Did Lucasfilm not have even a general story arc to be followed for this trilogy? The Emperor or Darth Vader would not have been effective villains if they had died before we discovered their motivation. Snoke was wasted.
Phasma was wasted. The casino interlude was pointless. Benicio de toro was unnecessary. Laura Dern was unnecessary. Finn had nothing to do you in this movie. The main plot was nothing more than a slow speed chase. The resistance may as well have been in a white Ford Bronco on the LA freeway with OJ.
There were here plenty of good things in the movie. I liked the direction of Rey and Kylo. I liked Luke. Several scenes were spectacular. I even liked the comedic bits. But the general story was lame and did not generate excitement for Episode 9. The unanswered questions from TFA no longer seem relevant, and there are no cliffhangers.
After an entire lifetime of loving Star Wars, and the hope built from TFA and Rogue One The Last couple years, plus being able to take my kids to a Star Wars movie for the first time ever, this experience means a lot to me. And the Last Jedi was utterly disappointing.
The worst thing about the prequel trilogy, was that it de-valued the original trilogy. It created too many unnecessary plot holes and neutered the Darth Vader character so much that it reduces the impact of the beloved, original movies. I love the original trilogy so much and hate the prequels so much that if you were to tell me that you like the prequels, I will forever be unable to respect you or your opinions.
Now, the Force Awakens was a fine movie; not great, but quite entertaining and a good intro to some interesting new characters and a new generation. TFA had a bunch of unanswered questions and issues that needed to be addressed by The Last Jedi, and so this new trilogy totally hinged on Episode 8’s ability to build upon Episode 7. It did not.
Much like 1, 2, and 3 devalued 4, 5, and 6, The Last Jedi devalued the Force Awakens. The entire plot of TFA was made irrelevant. Snoke and Kylo were obsessed with finding Luke. Why? Who was Snoke? Eh, who cares, Snoke’s dead. No insight. It’s almost as if Rian Johnson told JJ Abrams that he didn’t like his ideas so he was going to go a totally different direction. Did Lucasfilm not have even a general story arc to be followed for this trilogy? The Emperor or Darth Vader would not have been effective villains if they had died before we discovered their motivation. Snoke was wasted.
Phasma was wasted. The casino interlude was pointless. Benicio de toro was unnecessary. Laura Dern was unnecessary. Finn had nothing to do you in this movie. The main plot was nothing more than a slow speed chase. The resistance may as well have been in a white Ford Bronco on the LA freeway with OJ.
There were here plenty of good things in the movie. I liked the direction of Rey and Kylo. I liked Luke. Several scenes were spectacular. I even liked the comedic bits. But the general story was lame and did not generate excitement for Episode 9. The unanswered questions from TFA no longer seem relevant, and there are no cliffhangers.
After an entire lifetime of loving Star Wars, and the hope built from TFA and Rogue One The Last couple years, plus being able to take my kids to a Star Wars movie for the first time ever, this experience means a lot to me. And the Last Jedi was utterly disappointing.
Landlord
Banned
What was their motivation? And what was their backstory, specifically the Emperor's, in the original trilogy?
huKSer
All-American
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
I wanted to see the kind of movie a studio with literally billions of dollars at its disposal could give us. Something with depth, a believable story arc, believable plot, something that didn't destroy the last movie and something that didn't make the entire Skywalker story a punch line.
I guess my question for those of you who loved it is - what would it have taken to make you call this a bad movie? If this is a "good" movie, what would have been bad?
whateveritis1224
All-Conference
Review for TLJ -
Like I guess a lot of people here, Star Wars has been part of my life for a very long time. It's my favorite series and something I went back to after I lost interest with other series (bought an embarrassing amount of EU books) and my interest jumped to another level once Disney bought Lucas and decided to start making movies. I liked TFA. Probably rank it along with ROTJ after ESB and ANH.
Onto TLJ, I'm fine with most of the open questions from TFA falling off. Didn't really like Snoke, so I'm into Kylo killing him off halfway through the movie. I was into the whole Kylo and Rey fight with the guards. I was not into how Rey went from calling Kylo a snake and a monster, to deciding Ben can be redeemed within 2 days (Not to mention what he did to her in TFA along with killing a father figure in Han, which TLJ was probably within 2 weeks of). Felt like Rian had his thought of what to do with these two characters, and didn't care what happened in TFA. Also I absolutely hate the fact that the last of the Skywalkers is Kylo Ren. I get the meaning Rian was going for in that the force is not exclusive, but Star Wars Episodes are about the Skywalker family. The sequel trilogy is pretty much telling us that the Skywalker family (the Force's family, let us not forget that Anakin was an immaculate conception birth) is a blight on the galaxy because outside of a brief break with Luke and Leia, all they've done is brought darkness and despair. This is why I liked Rey being Luke's daughter. If Rey were a Skywalker then it at least would not screw the legacy and it would make for a more interesting story in IX as Rey and Kylo fought for the legacy of both sides of Anakin (and tangentially the force). So while I feel its most likely that the reveal was true, I'm still holding out hope that Kylo revealed it the way he did to push Rey to his camp. I'm very glad that she rejected his hand and walked away.
I liked Luke overall except for him tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder. Its funny, but it also didn't feel like something he would do with that lightsaber. How he acted towards Rey, what he was doing on the island, I liked it. Also liked the ending. The twin suns is the first time I've cried at a piece of media in a long time. Saw the movie a second time and I still teared up along with getting goosebumbs at the scene. It was a great way for him to fade into the force.
1st viewing I totally thought they were going to kill Leia when the bridge was attacked and I was uncertain as to how I felt about her surviving space. 2nd time I saw her appear to take a breath before the missiles hit, and I accept the fact that she survived more easily. I liked her using the force to pull her back to the ship. Overall I thought they used Leia well and I'm even more sad at the fact Carrie died and we won't see her do more boss stuff in Episode IX.
I'm ambivalent to the slow chase. I accept the logistics of it, the fact that they did not have enough fuel for another hyperspace jump and I don't believe the Star Destroyers could have jumped forward, turned around, and then jumped back to face them head on. I can also believe that the First Order is sadistic enough to not care that they are following them because they know they cannot escape and they want to draw their victory out that much longer. In fact this is what I will believe going forward.
I liked Finn and Rose as characters, but I think I would have liked it better if they had just got to Canto Bight, found their guy, and left. Found the guy that Maz pointed out that they could trust. Benecio was not that guy, he had the skills, did not have the trustworthiness. (You could talk me into having Finn sacrifice himself at the end, but the line by Rose was good "You don't win by killing what you hate, but by saving what you love". Good line and probably something that will pop up in IX.)
Poe was more Poe. Cool in an X-Wing and I like where they took the character at the end of the movie. Did not like the Holdo/Poe tension because if Holdo recognized the fact that Poe would not take their situation going down it would have been very easy to explain what the plan was. If she explains what the plan is, it would have saved more lives as Poe's plan to get them out of the situation exposed the plan to get the Resistance off the ship. The ending to the plot line was stunning though.
Crait is an amazing planet and I loved the fact that the dust kicked up as red. Loved Leia staring out with the high collar as Rose and Finn use the shuttle to escape from the star destroyer. Also loved the Falcon going into the red crystal caves with the Asteroid Belt music blaring. Great moment.
Overall I'd say I'm more positive to the movie than negative, but I'm not 100% into where Lucasfilm is taking the "Skywalker" saga.
Like I guess a lot of people here, Star Wars has been part of my life for a very long time. It's my favorite series and something I went back to after I lost interest with other series (bought an embarrassing amount of EU books) and my interest jumped to another level once Disney bought Lucas and decided to start making movies. I liked TFA. Probably rank it along with ROTJ after ESB and ANH.
Onto TLJ, I'm fine with most of the open questions from TFA falling off. Didn't really like Snoke, so I'm into Kylo killing him off halfway through the movie. I was into the whole Kylo and Rey fight with the guards. I was not into how Rey went from calling Kylo a snake and a monster, to deciding Ben can be redeemed within 2 days (Not to mention what he did to her in TFA along with killing a father figure in Han, which TLJ was probably within 2 weeks of). Felt like Rian had his thought of what to do with these two characters, and didn't care what happened in TFA. Also I absolutely hate the fact that the last of the Skywalkers is Kylo Ren. I get the meaning Rian was going for in that the force is not exclusive, but Star Wars Episodes are about the Skywalker family. The sequel trilogy is pretty much telling us that the Skywalker family (the Force's family, let us not forget that Anakin was an immaculate conception birth) is a blight on the galaxy because outside of a brief break with Luke and Leia, all they've done is brought darkness and despair. This is why I liked Rey being Luke's daughter. If Rey were a Skywalker then it at least would not screw the legacy and it would make for a more interesting story in IX as Rey and Kylo fought for the legacy of both sides of Anakin (and tangentially the force). So while I feel its most likely that the reveal was true, I'm still holding out hope that Kylo revealed it the way he did to push Rey to his camp. I'm very glad that she rejected his hand and walked away.
I liked Luke overall except for him tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder. Its funny, but it also didn't feel like something he would do with that lightsaber. How he acted towards Rey, what he was doing on the island, I liked it. Also liked the ending. The twin suns is the first time I've cried at a piece of media in a long time. Saw the movie a second time and I still teared up along with getting goosebumbs at the scene. It was a great way for him to fade into the force.
1st viewing I totally thought they were going to kill Leia when the bridge was attacked and I was uncertain as to how I felt about her surviving space. 2nd time I saw her appear to take a breath before the missiles hit, and I accept the fact that she survived more easily. I liked her using the force to pull her back to the ship. Overall I thought they used Leia well and I'm even more sad at the fact Carrie died and we won't see her do more boss stuff in Episode IX.
I'm ambivalent to the slow chase. I accept the logistics of it, the fact that they did not have enough fuel for another hyperspace jump and I don't believe the Star Destroyers could have jumped forward, turned around, and then jumped back to face them head on. I can also believe that the First Order is sadistic enough to not care that they are following them because they know they cannot escape and they want to draw their victory out that much longer. In fact this is what I will believe going forward.
I liked Finn and Rose as characters, but I think I would have liked it better if they had just got to Canto Bight, found their guy, and left. Found the guy that Maz pointed out that they could trust. Benecio was not that guy, he had the skills, did not have the trustworthiness. (You could talk me into having Finn sacrifice himself at the end, but the line by Rose was good "You don't win by killing what you hate, but by saving what you love". Good line and probably something that will pop up in IX.)
Poe was more Poe. Cool in an X-Wing and I like where they took the character at the end of the movie. Did not like the Holdo/Poe tension because if Holdo recognized the fact that Poe would not take their situation going down it would have been very easy to explain what the plan was. If she explains what the plan is, it would have saved more lives as Poe's plan to get them out of the situation exposed the plan to get the Resistance off the ship. The ending to the plot line was stunning though.
Crait is an amazing planet and I loved the fact that the dust kicked up as red. Loved Leia staring out with the high collar as Rose and Finn use the shuttle to escape from the star destroyer. Also loved the Falcon going into the red crystal caves with the Asteroid Belt music blaring. Great moment.
Overall I'd say I'm more positive to the movie than negative, but I'm not 100% into where Lucasfilm is taking the "Skywalker" saga.
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Redux
Assistant Coach
Maybe if they would have made the cavalier bad boy pilot a total wuss, killed the interesting shiny armor character via fart joke, dressed the strong female character up in a space bikini and had the evil army defeated by teddy bears. That would have made it pretty bad.
Here is the thing. Early on, I wasnt hooked. Halfway through I was thinking I wasn't sure if I liked the movie. Even 3/4 through it I was still questioning if I liked it. After the credits rolled and we walked out my wife asked me what I thought, my response: "It went a lot differently than I thought it would.......yeah, it was really good!". It took seeing it in its entirety and getting a minute to digest everything to really pass my judgement. I can truly see why people don't like it. There are parts I think are out of place, there are jokes that don't belong, there are entire portions of story that could have been written simpler and in turn better, there are cheesy as hell parts that suck you out of the movie, there are unanswered questions and there are questionable choices made in the direction of the whole trilogy.
Many who came away sour from TFA, were never going to enjoy this movie regardless of what happened. Why did I enjoy it? It's a crapload of fun. It's 2.5hrs long and the pacing is really well done to the point it doesn't feel that long. It tells a mostly unique story, something people pissed and moaned about after TFA. It shows NEW FORCE POWERS. It had one of the coolest scenes in the franchise that used zero sound or music. It led us to believe Rey would turn dark, Ren would turn light and then neither of those things happened and Snoke dies in a utterly unexpected turn of events. But most importantly for me it took chances and offered a different entry into a franchise thats fanbase consists of 90% people who hate anything not original trilogy. It's not what you or I would have made, and that's okay.
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