Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***

Yeah, but we don't actually know how the books ended up there, right? 

All of that could be held true while at the same time, Rey isn't a part of that allegory or whatever, and she independently thought that Luke was unhinged and she better snag those books because they're gonna be important :lol:

 
Seeing it again last weekend and just overall reading has helped me bring about some more thoughts.

Again overall I feel like TLJ is a good movie, its just not that good of a sequel to TFA.  Too many personalities are different from what they have portrayed at in different media (Poe has a comic book that contradicts some of the decisions he would make in TLJ, mainly being excited at the fact that they destroyed the dreadnaught at the beginning at the cost of the entire resistance bomber fleet).  

I've made my thoughts about Rey's plot known.  It's a little worse because while there was her trying to figure out her parents, her main plot was turning the bad boy back to the light.  Main protagonist was sidelined for the sake of the main antagonist.  

I think the story might have been better if Kylo had turned back to the light after he killed Snoke.  Because if they turn him next film it feels like it won't work.  The only way it would work would be for him to die after the turn like Vader.  Being an underling to the supreme leader is different than making all the decisions.

Also Luke throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder at the start gets worse on every rewatch.  Just can't see him doing that to something that has that much significance to his past.  It feels like lets make a joke of a heavy scene from the end of TFA.  Again I was fine with Luke throughout the movie, just did not like how they opened with him.

 
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A lot of the complaints surrounding Luke's character development seem to be related to people's inability to believe he would abandon everything because of what happened with Ben and the young Jedis he was training. I don't think it's far-fetched to suggest he'd be devastated by those events in ways different than what happened to him years prior, and that he then might make odd decisions (like throwing away a lightsaber) because of it.

@whateveritis1224, you made a comment that serves as an interesting jumping off point - what do people think would actually have happened if Rey convinced Kylo to return to the light? I've always found this possible outcome interesting because, in my opinion, it'd be near impossible to accept him as a member of the Resistance/Rebellion given everything he's done for the dark side. I even wonder what Rey thought that might actually accomplish in application. Perhaps foolish ambition?

Personally, it has always seemed a bit ludicrous to me. I think Rey rejecting Kylo just further substantiated his selfish tendencies. That's why I've always found Kylo to be an interesting antagonist. Vader/Palpatine were always so cool, calm and collected, whereas Kylo is impetuous and immature.

 
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Enhance said:
A lot of the complaints surrounding Luke's character development seem to be related to people's inability to believe he would abandon everything because of what happened with Ben and the young Jedis he was training. I don't think it's far-fetched to suggest he'd be devastated by those events in ways different than what happened to him years prior, and that he then might make odd decisions (like throwing away a lightsaber) because of it.
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Mark Hamill apparently doesn't think so.

 
Mavric said:
Mark Hamill apparently doesn't think so.
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Mark Hamill doesn't control Luke's story ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Have you ever noticed how J.K. Rowling routinely welcomes different interpretations of Harry Potter characters, what they are/aren't capable of and applauds creativity?

If she's capable of doing that with her own creation, I think everyone is capable of discarding some of their notions of what a character is or isn't.

 
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Mavric said:
Mark Hamill apparently doesn't think so.
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Number one that doesn't matter at all, and number two he has repeatedly expressed regret about how his initial critical comments were received and has been offering up a lot of praise and "I was wrong" since. You can call it PR or damage control, but then you have to admit that you're speculating and not reading what's actually been said.

 
Landlord said:
Number one that doesn't matter at all, and number two he has repeatedly expressed regret about how his initial critical comments were received and has been offering up a lot of praise and "I was wrong" since. You can call it PR or damage control, but then you have to admit that you're speculating and not reading what's actually been said.
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It only “doesn’t matter at all” because you disagree with it.

I am reading what’s actually been said. He said two contradictory things.  Obviously one is his true feelings. It seems pretty obvious which one that is.

 



Here's another review.  Takes a little bit to get to his thoughts about The Last Jedi, but he talks about the themes of Star Wars, and why the new movies don't pass the fridge test for him.

Matt Colville is a writer of Fantasy.  He's written a few fantasy books, he's done a few things with D&D, and he's written a video game (Evolve).

 
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What's interesting to me is that, from the professional critic, this movie has done pretty well. It's the average moviegoer (or Star Wars fan) who seems more split as to how good it really is.

It reminds of the opposite in movies like Super Troopers, a film that moviegoers really seemed to enjoy but that critics thought wasn't very good. Obviously, everybody is looking for something a little different when they see a movie.

 
The Force Awakens has a 93% on Rotten Tomatoes. Many (the majority?) superfans like to claim it's bad.

The Last Jedi has has a 91% on Rotten Tomatoes. Many (the majority?) superfans like to claim it's bad. 

Either the professionals are just suckers for anything Star Wars/Disney, or the fans bring too much expectation to the films. Or it's a good product of the craft of filmmaking, but isn't enjoyable enough as entertainment? Or something. 

 
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Landlord said:
The Force Awakens has a 93% on Rotten Tomatoes. Many (the majority?) superfans like to claim it's bad.

The Last Jedi has has a 91% on Rotten Tomatoes. Many (the majority?) superfans like to claim it's bad. 

Either the professionals are just suckers for anything Star Wars/Disney, or the fans bring too much expectation to the films. Or it's a good product of the craft of filmmaking, but isn't enjoyable enough as entertainment? Or something. 
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I think the high Rotten Tomatoes critics score is this.  Overall both TFA and TLJ are well crafted pieces of cinematography made by directors who have made movies that are generally well liked by critics. 

JJ made a safe movie, a movie to jump back into Star Wars and introduce it for a new generation.  This caused a flip in audience reaction after it was looked at and people didn't like how close it was to ANH (even though the comparison is more surface level than an exact copy) and who are not high on Abram's "Mystery Box" style. 

TLJ has an audience issue with subverting expectations.  A lot of the things that JJ set up in his "Mystery Box" was subverted by Rian in less than stellar ways.  Who are Rey's parents?  No one, and we'll reveal this information by having the main antagonist goad the main protagonist into acknowledging this in a very emotionally abusive way.  This was not a definitive way to reveal this and it leaves it open for another reveal in IX (probably won't happen, but its possible).  Who is Snoke?  Let's have Ren kill him in the climax.  2 years of speculation lead to nothing.  The Rey/Luke first meeting turning into a joke where Luke throws the lightsaber over his shoulder.  Luke's motivations and the reason he's on Ach-To.  TLJ is definitively not worse than the prequels, but there are issues with it that seem to be overlooked by critics.

 
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