Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (Spoilers for Episode 7)

[Making Chimichangas]

@RedDenver, that was a really interesting video. And I agree with it...except at the end.  

Yes Rian Johnson attempts to subvert what we know about Star Wars...

And, yes the movie reverts backs to the cliche of the OT...

However, where I differ in my conclusion is that Rian Johnson purposefully subverted his own subversion because people (as a collective whole) don't learn from their mistakes.  I think Rian's film is more a social commentary on history being cyclical than anything else.

:dunno

 

[knapplc]

Side Note: The Last Jedi novel is an interesting read.  In places it goes into more depth and explains certain things--gives more context.

Is that novel considered canon?  I'd read it if it was.

 

[RedDenver]

@RedDenver, that was a really interesting video. And I agree with it...except at the end.  

Yes Rian Johnson attempts to subvert what we know about Star Wars...

And, yes the movie reverts backs to the cliche of the OT...

However, where I differ in my conclusion is that Rian Johnson purposefully subverted his own subversion because people (as a collective whole) don't learn from their mistakes.  I think Rian's film is more a social commentary on history being cyclical than anything else.

:dunno

If that's what he was going for, then he failed even worse at that. He doesn't setup any themes for cyclical history nor does he make good on that at the end. So I think your conclusion is one that's unearned by the film.

Nice find.  That was interesting.

Much deeper investigation than I would have ever thought possible.  But the same basic premise that has been my complaint since I saw it:  It's incoherent.  Entertaining.  Interesting.  But it's much more a collection of scenes than a coherent story.

Yes, you're right. It's a collection of interesting scenes that don't form a plot. The wisecrack video just reinforces what I thought when I first saw TLJ, there's no real plot or character development. The characters are essentially right back where they were before without having learned anything.

 

[knapplc]

[No message]

 

[RedDenver]

That's hilarious. Definitely not what I expected.

 

[Making Chimichangas]

Is that novel considered canon?  I'd read it if it was.

It is literally the movie in book form...so ya...it is canon.

 

[whateveritis1224]

It is literally the movie in book form...so ya...it is canon.

Except the parts that aren't or will be made non-canon by a future iteration (Poe met Rey at the end of the TFA official novel, but that was changed so they could first meet at the end of TLJ).

 

[Making Chimichangas]

Except the parts that aren't or will be made non-canon by a future iteration (Poe met Rey at the end of the TFA official novel, but that was changed so they could first meet at the end of TLJ).

Well, talk to Disney and/or Lucasfilm...

 

[whateveritis1224]

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/rian-johnson-baits-star-wars-trolls-remake-the-last-jedi-1201977410/

I'm starting to really dislike Rian. He got a lot of crap for TLJ (a good amount undeserved), but why do you have to do this?

Here's Hamill's response:

 

[Making Chimichangas]

@whateveritis1224, dude...that is GOLD!!!!

Although, Rian Johnson is playing a no-win game.  Here's what I mean: By daring the racist and misogynistic trolls to remake TLJ, if someone takes his offer (if it is real--which I doubt) he'll lose.  Why?  Because it doesn't matter how actually terrible the remake is, all racist and misogynistic a*holes will like it because it wasn't directed by Rian Johnson.  Here's what a remake of TLJ will look like:

*all white male cast

*nazi imagery and white power themes

*exclusion of anyone not white, male, and hetero

*everyone will bow down to, and admire, all white male characters.

People who hold nazi sympathies and/or beliefs will go see this movie 10x each if they have to.  All to prove their point.

 

[Landlord]

Racists, misogynists and nazi sympathizers make up a very, very small percentage of people who don't like TLJ.

 

[Making Chimichangas]

Racists, misogynists and nazi sympathizers make up a very, very small percentage of people who don't like TLJ.

That's what you (and I actually) would like to think.  However, the reality is far, far different.  Go to YouTube, search for "i hate the last jedi" and then read the comments...racist and/or misogynistic sentimemts are way more prevalent than you think.

 

[Landlord]

That's what you (and I actually) would like to think.  However, the reality is far, far different.  Go to YouTube, search for "i hate the last jedi" and then read the comments...racist and/or misogynistic sentimemts are way more prevalent than you think.

Youtube comments are... a very very poor representative sample size.

You really want to make a legitimate claim using youtube comments as proof? :lol:

 

[Making Chimichangas]

Youtube comments are... a very very poor representative sample size.

You really want to make a legitimate claim using youtube comments as proof? :lol:

Yes, I do.

When people comment anonymously/via a screenname their REAL thoughts, opinions, and attitudes come out.  What you think all this racism, misogyny, bigotry, and hate exists in some obscure vacuum?  

And your mocking/minimizing this is exactly why racists and misogynistic a-holes feel so emboldened under Trump.  Because you seem to think that web-based racism, bigotry, misogyny, hate, and/or intolerance doesn't translate to reality.  IT DOES.  If it didn't, islamic extremeist wouldn't be able to recruit.  

 

[Mierin]

Yes, I do.

When people comment anonymously/via a screenname their REAL thoughts, opinions, and attitudes come out.  What you think all this racism, misogyny, bigotry, and hate exists in some obscure vacuum?  

And your mocking/minimizing this is exactly why racists and misogynistic a-holes feel so emboldened under Trump.  Because you seem to think that web-based racism, bigotry, misogyny, hate, and/or intolerance doesn't translate to reality.  IT DOES.  If it didn't, islamic extremeist wouldn't be able to recruit. 

I think you're missing his point. He's not saying they're not representative of actual thoughts people have. He's saying they're not a representative sample. It might be that 3% of the people who hated The Last Jedi hated it because they're racist or sexist. But maybe 50% of the comments from people who hated it are from racists/sexists. And I agree with him that it is probably a much smaller % in reality than you see on YouTube. Assholes tend to be louder and more prolific in their postings.

YouTube tends to have a lot of crazies in comments sections. There are also campaigns by hate groups to do these sorts of things. Hell just read what happened to the star of of Stranger Things recently. No, most people don't hate a 13 year old girl, but she was so bullied over the internet she shut down her online presence.