Success of Pro-Style O Likely Depends on the Trenches

[RedDenver]

Tommy's legs and happy feet hurt the O line sometimes too.

I agree completely. Trying to block for Tommy was much more difficult than trying to block for a pocket passer who's movements will be much more predictable.

Except when the pocket breaks down...

Let's not forget that many times, Tommy was running for his life when the pocket broke down......because he totally forgot where his dump rout was and lacked the ability to deliver the ball there when he actually did.

Yes, and TA rarely stepped up into the pocket, which let the outside rush flush him when he could have stepped up. A lot of different variables here. We'll just have to see what shakes out.

 

[BIG ERN]

TA wasn't a good passer. Those are facts.

 

[Melby]

When tommy couldnt complete simple passes, defenses started stacking the box with 8 defenders. The DLine didnt have to stay at home, they were able to do full rushes. LB's blitzed and played run first. But, if you have a qb that can check down, throw simple 5 yard passes and screens.... now that means the DLine has to stay at home, so they dont get burned by a middle screen. The LB's have to play pass first because of crossing routes and slants from slots and TEs. There is a cascading effect when your QB can deliver the ball quickly and accurately. Then the D wont stack the box.... and now we can run the ball. Its the passing to open up the run philosophy. When teams drop back their coverages to cover the pass, you pound the ball until they bring up a safety for support, then you burn them deep. Its a chess match, and we havent had a decent chess player since Osborne.

 

[Mavric]

When tommy couldnt complete simple passes, defenses started stacking the box with 8 defenders. The DLine didnt have to stay at home, they were able to do full rushes. LB's blitzed and played run first. But, if you have a qb that can check down, throw simple 5 yard passes and screens.... now that means the DLine has to stay at home, so they dont get burned by a middle screen. The LB's have to play pass first because of crossing routes and slants from slots and TEs. There is a cascading effect when your QB can deliver the ball quickly and accurately. Then the D wont stack the box.... and now we can run the ball. Its the passing to open up the run philosophy. When teams drop back their coverages to cover the pass, you pound the ball until they bring up a safety for support, then you burn them deep. Its a chess match, and we havent had a decent chess player since Osborne.

Nope. When we line up in 21 or 12 personnel, defenses often have 7-8 guys in the box. As they should against almost any QB.

 

[ColoradoHusk]

When tommy couldnt complete simple passes, defenses started stacking the box with 8 defenders. The DLine didnt have to stay at home, they were able to do full rushes. LB's blitzed and played run first. But, if you have a qb that can check down, throw simple 5 yard passes and screens.... now that means the DLine has to stay at home, so they dont get burned by a middle screen. The LB's have to play pass first because of crossing routes and slants from slots and TEs. There is a cascading effect when your QB can deliver the ball quickly and accurately. Then the D wont stack the box.... and now we can run the ball. Its the passing to open up the run philosophy. When teams drop back their coverages to cover the pass, you pound the ball until they bring up a safety for support, then you burn them deep. Its a chess match, and we havent had a decent chess player since Osborne.

Nope. When we line up in 21 or 12 personnel, defenses often have 7-8 guys in the box. As they should against almost any QB.

You are correct, the number of guys "in the box" is a by-product of offensive personnel more than anything. I know that Armstrong wasn't a great passer, but to say that he wasn't the only reason teams would put 7 or 8 guys in the box.

I get the thought that because NU will have a better passing QB, they will be more "unpredictable" but I don't agree with that train of thought. I don't buy the passing to open up the run philosophy. That philosophy doesn't mean anything if the line can't do it's job to block, because the defense can stop the run game with 6 or 7 defenders. Also, there will always be a free defender when the QB isn't a viable running threat.

 

[shyndy]

Am I wrong thinking that pen states OL wasn't that good last year either? McSorely was just able to deal with it.

 

[Saunders]

Am I wrong thinking that pen states OL wasn't that good last year either? McSorely was just able to deal with it.

Penn states OL wasn't very good the last few years. Franklin ditched the pro-style offense last year and went with an uptempo spread when he hired Joe Moorehead from Fordham. The OL still wasn't great last year, but they were able to create chunk rushing plays by giving Barkley the ball in space.

 

[suh_fan93]

Tommy's legs and happy feet hurt the O line sometimes too.

I agree completely. Trying to block for Tommy was much more difficult than trying to block for a pocket passer who's movements will be much more predictable.

Except when the pocket breaks down...

Let's not forget that many times, Tommy was running for his life when the pocket broke down......because he totally forgot where his dump rout was and lacked the ability to deliver the ball there when he actually did.

Except I didn't forget. Tommy isn't our quarterback this year which is what my comment about the pocket breaking down was about. What happens 'this' year.

 

[84HuskerLaw]

It has been a long time (the 1970s really) since NU had a pro style, passing helps set up the run, type offense for a number of years where we had NFL "ish" level QB skills throwing the ball with Humm, Ferragamo, Tagge, etc. We didn't fair that well in winning conference titles because OU was just head and shoulders above us in terms of team speed in their offense vs. our defense. We just couldn't stop the 'bone' and rarely could we score enough on them to 'out score' them. Callahn preferred to pass the ball about twice as many times as he ran it but he used lots of short passes and threw to his RBs frequently which somewhat replaced some of the run game. The game has changed and evolved over the years so it will surely be interesting to see whether or not Riley's offensive approach can actually work in the rugged Big Ten. To a degree, the Big Ten has always geen a somewhat boring "three yards and a cloud of dust' run and run and throw if you have to out of basic pro style formations. I just don't think Riley wants to settle for those basic pound it at them running plays. He wants 'chunk' yardage and is looking to try to avoid the shove it down their throat game. To be fair, though, he did just that vs. UCLA when he saw we had the man power up front to do it.

You can have success, although maybe not consistantly enough, setting up the runs with the pass but I believe the historical data would more than likely suggest that success in the run game will open up the pass.

There really is a happy medium somewhere in between. But if you complete enough passes, you will find running room and vice versa.

 

[Landlord]

I think the O-line will be just fine. We have more (developed) experience, health, and depth than last year, and I think that Tommy's mobility and his inability to step up in the pocket combined with a big struggle with checkdowns nearly cancel each other out.

Tanner Lee is also no Zac Taylor. He's not a sprinter, but he's mobile enough to keep defenses fairly honest.

 

[ColoradoHusk]

I keep on seeing posts about how the o-line will be just fine and how it relates to the passing game. I don't think that will be the biggest issue for the offense and the o-line. The biggest issue will be in the run game. If NU can't run the ball to stay on schedule, keep the defenses honest, and grind games out in the 4th quarter, it won't matter how great Lee is.

 

[dvdcrr]

I read the article yesterday and found it anecdotal and semi informational. What I take from this is that you need a great offensive line. Shocker! Did anyone ever let TO know about this?

 

[JJ Husker]

Did people forget what happened with the offensive line last year? Most of them played injured and it was musical chairs the entire year.

Having some depth there now and having everyone at 100 percent will be a huge improvement right out of the gate. At least this year when we have injuries, we'll have a four star sliding in to replace production instead of walk on.

Also, we'll be able to actually pull guards FINALLY and actually run some traps and counters in the run game....I see A MASSIVE improvement on deck for the line this year.

I hope you're right, but this narrative (or some derivative of it) is what I've seen around this program for most of the last 10 years, if not longer.
From my perspective, Nebraska has spent far too long relying on the injury bug, a lack of depth, a lack of talent, transfers and missed recruiting opportunities to explain why an offensive line underperformed. We're past due for some sustained success in the trenches.

I agree with this and also hope he is right. Too often my rationale for optimism is that we can't be any worse or that certain things have to get better. Sadly, for the last 15 years or so that just hasn't been the case. Seldom do things improve as much as needed or desired.

 

[JJ Husker]

I keep on seeing posts about how the o-line will be just fine and how it relates to the passing game. I don't think that will be the biggest issue for the offense and the o-line. The biggest issue will be in the run game. If NU can't run the ball to stay on schedule, keep the defenses honest, and grind games out in the 4th quarter, it won't matter how great Lee is.

I agree with this but it works both ways. I feel the run game will improve, at least marginally, because defenses will have to respect the pass. That hasn't been the situation with TA and TM back there the last few years. But yeah, it remains to be seen if better passing will offset the loss of QB mobility. And it's all moot if our OL doesnt do at least a reasonable job. I'll be optimistic until they prove otherwise. Hoping I don't sour on them before conference play begins....

 

[ColoradoHusk]

I keep on seeing posts about how the o-line will be just fine and how it relates to the passing game. I don't think that will be the biggest issue for the offense and the o-line. The biggest issue will be in the run game. If NU can't run the ball to stay on schedule, keep the defenses honest, and grind games out in the 4th quarter, it won't matter how great Lee is.

I agree with this but it works both ways. I feel the run game will improve, at least marginally, because defenses will have to respect the pass. That hasn't been the situation with TA and TM back there the last few years. But yeah, it remains to be seen if better passing will offset the loss of QB mobility. And it's all moot if our OL doesnt do at least a reasonable job. I'll be optimistic until they prove otherwise. Hoping I don't sour on them before conference play begins....

I understand that the defenses will have to respect the pass more, but defenses always had to keep one defender to account for the QB run game. That's the numbers game that I keep referring to. That free guy now has the ability to stay back in coverage or come up and be a free defender in the run game.