Talent Vs. Developement

[ColoradoHusk]

You have to go by individual players if you are talking development and recruiting specific players. Corey Schlesinger was a walk on with 0 offers he would be a prime example of not ranked. Weigert had 1 offer. 3 star kid or 2 star in today’s rankings. 

Again, I don't have the ability to go back through individual player rankings.  If you are able to add player rankings on all the players I listed, feel free to do so.

Also, Schlesinger wasn't a walk-on.  He was a scholarship recruit, after being a 2-time all state player from Columbus, as well as the Nebraska Defensive Player of the Year as a high school LB.  I would say he was one of the best athletes recruited that year for NU.  He just happened to play fullback, so you think he was a walk-on.  For Weigert, he may not have had any other offers besides Nebraska, but he was also a Fremont kid, so most schools probably knew it would have been impossible to get him to go elsewhere.

You need to stop making the players who were recruited by NU in the early 90s worse than they actually were.  I listed the class rankings, along with the key players from those classes.  NU did a great job of getting a lot out of those classes.  That is through developing great talent.  Again, talent and development shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

EDIT:  After Cdog posted the Lemming ranking of players, let's look at Schlesinger and Weigert.  Weigert was the 59th rated Offensive Linemen, while Schlesinger wasn't listed.

 

[Cdog923]

What I am saying is it is easy to go back and rank players after it’s done? Look at the starters on the 94 team. Besides maybe Peter and Frazier, Phillips where are most of those guys being ranked? Is it just a miracle that the players in 80s and 90s from Nebraska would have all been ranked as 4 Star kids and now they are 3s? Aaron Taylor prime example on Big10 network yesterday, had 3 offers? He would not be ranked today? Look at the starters on 94 team many more 3 stars/ not ranked than 4 and 5 star players 

The rankings came out the exact same way that they do nowadays; after kids sign, before they play a game. 

You have to go by individual players if you are talking development and recruiting specific players. Corey Schlesinger was a walk on with 0 offers he would be a prime example of not ranked. Weigert had 1 offer. 3 star kid or 2 star in today’s rankings. 

That happens in every class, and is counterbalanced by the high ranked recruits. Tommie Frazier was, by all accounts, a 5 star player. Ahman Green was one of the top 3 RBs in the country, as was DeAngelo Evans. 

There's a Google spreadsheet floating around with Lemming's old ratings: 


You can see that, in 1992, Nebraska had 16 of his high rated players: the #1 option QB, # 16 RB, #14 & #16 WB, #19 OT, #10 DT, #6 NG, and #10 OLB. In '93, we had a top 10 RB, top 10 OT, top 10 CB and top 10 S. In '94, we had a top 10 TE and top 2 DE. In '95 alone, we had 15 players, including the #3 RB, #2 OG, #3 OLB and the #10 and #11 DT QBs. Hell, in '97, we got 2 of the top 4 DT QBs.

 

[ColoradoHusk]

@Cdog923 that file with Lemming's recruiting rankings for each player would be a great time killer some day.  Thanks for producing that.  I still don't get why people want to poo-poo the talent that was brought in by Osborne.  It's like they want to hang their hats on that those great teams were built on hard work and the genius of Tom Osborne.  Yes, those 2 items were very important, as was the overall talent which was brought in by Osborne and the staff.

 

[Cdog923]

@Cdog923 that file with Lemming's recruiting rankings for each player would be a great time killer some day.  Thanks for producing that.  I still don't get why people want to poo-poo the talent that was brought in by Osborne.  It's like they want to hang their hats on that those great teams were built on hard work and the genius of Tom Osborne.  Yes, those 2 items were very important, as was the overall talent which was brought in by Osborne and the staff.

If anything, it undervalues his worth and ability as a recruiter. 

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

If anything, it undervalues his worth and ability as a recruiter. 

Bingo, Osborne recruited lights out and was a fantastic developer of this talent. He was able to squeeze every ounce of potential out of everyone. This resulted in walk ins becoming contributors because of the culture established. It also pushed the 4 and 5 star recruits to new heights because that was the culture here. 

What our walk on program did was build quality depth and also provide a few surprises that turned into all Americans because of the development that took place. Let's stop pretending that no one else wanted several of our players. It isnt true. 

 

[Pedro G]

What do you think of Wisconsin’s success in recruiting? They seem to always be ranked outside of the top 25, yet that team last year was very good. The Corn seems to always be ahead of them in the recruiting rankings. The only thing I saw that was slightly missing in WI, was speed on the edge against OSU’s speedy offense. And they had an inconsistent QB. Yet they handled Miami, and we know the Hurricanes were not slow. So I see a good argument on both sides of Husker recruiting. 

 

[Snowbird]

They don’t recruit in top 10, they will never win a national championship. Osborne recruited great for his system. Recruited no where near a modern day Alabama or even Ohio St. Surprised Schlessinger was a scholarship guy, even though he said he wasn’t recruited hard by anyone. 

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

What do you think of Wisconsin’s success in recruiting? They seem to always be ranked outside of the top 25, yet that team last year was very good. The Corn seems to always be ahead of them in the recruiting rankings. The only thing I saw that was slightly missing in WI, was speed on the edge against OSU’s speedy offense. And they had an inconsistent QB. Yet they handled Miami, and we know the Hurricanes were not slow. So I see a good argument on both sides of Husker recruiting. 

How many national championships do they have? 

They don’t recruit in top 10, they will never win a national championship. Osborne recruited great for his system. Recruited no where near a modern day Alabama or even Ohio St. Surprised Schlessinger was a scholarship guy, even though he said he wasn’t recruited hard by anyone. 

Well he recruited top ten talent so actually yes yes he did recruit near their level...

 

[ColoradoHusk]

Well he recruited top ten talent so actually yes yes he did recruit near their level...

It was like Snowbird refused to accept any of the posts that showed how well Osborne recruited leading up to his national championships, not to mention how well his classes were in the 80’s.  Can’t help someone who won’t accept the figures when presented to him. 

 

[Huskers93-97]

It was like Snowbird refused to accept any of the posts that showed how well Osborne recruited leading up to his national championships, not to mention how well his classes were in the 80’s.  Can’t help someone who won’t accept the figures when presented to him. 

Osborne recruited well and frost will get up to that 10-15 level consistently as well once the wins start rolling in. It’s a false narrative you can’t recruit to Nebraska said out loud by one idiot and it got regurgitated by enough uninformed people that the general population started believing it 

 

[Snowbird]

I never said he didnt recruit great classes. But if you take what you are saying, Wisconsin, Iowa should be awful every year? Also, I did See your “facts” and if you average those classes they aren’t averaging top 10? They would be around 15 in those 4 classes on average? 

 

[Huskers93-97]

Also I disagree that Wisconsin can’t or won’t win a national title at some point. They have had some great teams- but sometimes it takes a few lucky bounces and they didn’t string it together in one season. But they have taken down Ohio state who is as talented as anyone. Get to the playoff and anyone can win. Sure Alabama’s odds of winning are better, they have more margin for error but to say Wisconsin can’t is stupid 

i will say their window just got tighter with frost and NU on the rise. They should have capitalized in the last 15 years of NU sucking. As frost said” get your shots this year” cause it’s gonna get tougher year by year 

 

[Snowbird]

Also, how can lemming be the most respected recruiting guru when he doesn’t even have class ranks 3/4 of the 90s? I mean The only site you can go off is Wallace’s? 

 

[ColoradoHusk]

I never said he didnt recruit great classes. But if you take what you are saying, Wisconsin, Iowa should be awful every year? Also, I did See your “facts” and if you average those classes they aren’t averaging top 10? They would be around 15 in those 4 classes on average? 

I have also said that development matters.  Again Talent and Development are not exclusive. Development is where Wisconsin (I’m not putting Iowa in the same level) excels, and now they are getting stud skill recruits to go with their linemen.  Wisconsin also hasn’t been able to beat Ohio State and Penn State in recent years, due to a talent deficit in some positions. 

Regarding the rankings that I showed earlier in the thread, the one outlier class (28th) is going to pull down the other classes if you look at averages. It would be like having 3 #5 ranked classes, with one #45 ranked class.  You would say their average class rank is #20, even though 3 of the classes were among the best in the country.  That’s the flaw in using average instead of another statistical measure. 

You tried to say the 90s title teams weren’t built on top 10 talent, and many posts showed that they were. There were 4 years of classes in the top 10, and another in the top 20. I was at UNL during the mid 90s. I saw the abundance of talent.

 

[Snowbird]

As I said Before you must go off of Wallace’s perspective because he is the only one who ranked every year? The 4 classes before the national championship is as follows. 10, 28, 14, 18. Which averages out to roughly 18 in the country.