Tangent Thread - P&R Edition

Archy1221 said:
I agree that I can be smarmy at times, usually in response to smart though.   Very few times do I present illogical arguments though.  
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The term "illogical" was being used as an all-encompassing adjective associated with board behavior, not just explicitly in association with the veracity of a specific argument.

Most people think their arguments are logical, so subjective self-evaluations like that don't mean much to me.

I'm generally less concerned with what someone's argument is vs. how they're sharing the argument.

 
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Archy1221 said:
It kinda proves a point that instead of saying “here’s where I disagree with your statement” you just post a troll meme (which you just got some complaint about trolling)  :dunno

So ya, it kinda does make me right about people trying to troll when I post instead of having honest discourse.  
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Sorry, when somebody posts something like this gem;

Because over time, I tend to be right more often than I am wrong. 

You’re going to get a smart a$$ gif from me. It doesn’t affect your life so don’t worry about it.

 
Archy1221 said:
I have to admit that early on there are times I got in the troll game and it was usually in response to another troll post.  If you looked through the posts of some people (I could private message you the names so as to not make it a big thing here and create even more of a tangent) that’s all the really post is troll bs especially about the R side.  When I respond with a fact or data telling them they are wrong, I accused of trolling, or being obtuse, or whatever else by four people who happen to agree with the original troll.  
 

1). Remember all the flock I took about defending the new voter laws from the bs arguments about voter suppression???  Look who’s right at the moment.   I’m sure I was called obtuse or disingenuous back then.  I’m certainly correct now thoug.

2) Remember when I would call out all the BS and wrong posts about Trump and Russia in 2020/2021?  People like you would say I “ride Trumps jock”  when in reality the story was actually wrong.  The media corrections have proven me correct back then.  
 

3). I sure caught a lot of flack for wanting kids back in school during Covid (yes I was correct and Fauci was wrong, yet I get accused by you of attacking him).  I get accused of being anti vaxxer (when I’m actually vaccinated) for being against vaccine mandates for Covid and calling out the fact that they are unnecessary in kids (which the science has proven out). 
 

4)  I’ve been also been wrong here and took my argument too far before admitting to it which is on me.  
 

You can hate on me, discount what I say, do whatever as it doesn’t affect my life in any way shape or form.  All I ask is that you have an open mind to what I present and don’t jump on the troll bandwagon the other 6-8 people ride on and then make a decision of what you think of my thoughts.  Because over time, I tend to be right more often than I am wrong. 
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I thought this was a pretty reasonable post up until the last sentence. 

Here's the way the math usually works:

A hotly debated issue includes five different topics.

You are wrong about four of the topics. You are right about one of the topics.

You decide that's enough to declare yourself right. 

It's that little dance of yours that earns you a majority of the trolling around here. 

Actually, the book is hardly closed on voter suppression and Trump's Russian ties either. Election collusion was a rabbit hole and a mistake imho, but there is no question Donald Trump's private business was/is beholden to Vladimir Putin and various Russian oligarchs on a level that renders Hunter Biden's laptop laughable in comparison. 

The GOP's incredibly success attempts to retool the election process in its favor isn't up for debate anymore, either. The big voter turnout in Georgia doesn't mean voter suppression was a hoax, it means both national parties went all in on Georgia precisely because of the stakes and the attention. You can declare a win based on a singular event and miss the big picture --- the only meaningful part of a debate -- and in this case it's the guy you voted for twice leading the party into a vindictive personality cult. 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/5/3/republican-party-is-waging-a-nationwide-assault-on-voting-rights

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Here's the way the math usually works:

A hotly debated issue includes five different topics.

You are wrong about four of the topics. You are right about one of the topics.

You decide that's enough to declare yourself right. 

It's that little dance of yours that earns you a majority of the trolling around here. 
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Your sense of what is considered right and wrong is iv obviously warped, but forgiven considering where you live :)  

 
Archy1221 said:
Your sense of what is considered right and wrong is iv obviously warped, but forgiven considering where you live :)  
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It has nothing to do with where he lives. This is a well-established pattern of behavior that you started immediately after hitting the minimum post requirement for P&R. You initiate fights, you engage in dishonest and circuitous conversations intended to troll people you disagree with, and you frequently make personal references about the people you disagree with. P&R is necessarily more permissive than other forums on HuskerBoard, but it is not the Shed. 

You are typically on your best behavior when you discuss things with @Enhance, hence his rosy endorsement of your conversations. No non-Moderator whom you consider a Liberal would agree with his assessment of your behavior. 

 
knapplc said:
It has nothing to do with where he lives. This is a well-established pattern of behavior that you started immediately after hitting the minimum post requirement for P&R. You initiate fights, you engage in dishonest and circuitous conversations intended to troll people you disagree with, and you frequently make personal references about the people you disagree with. P&R is necessarily more permissive than other forums on HuskerBoard, but it is not the Shed. 

You are typically on your best behavior when you discuss things with @Enhance, hence his rosy endorsement of your conversations. No non-Moderator whom you consider a Liberal would agree with his assessment of your behavior. 
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LOL.   You were the biggest purveyor of disinformation on the board for quite some time regarding the Trump/Russia coordination hoax.   I’m sorry you were wrong and got called out.  
 

Try reading Guy’s post and without laughing say he was trying real hard to have an honest conversation.  Try reading guys posts to me and without laughing make the claim he doesn’t make personal references.   And from what I’m told, we’re in the shed and telling someone he is living in CA is allowed.   
 

now try reading people who respond to me and ask yourself who’s initiating “fights”.  Have I done it at times, sure.  But most of the time it ain’t me pal.  If you got a problem with keep reporting like you normally do.  

 
Archy1221 said:
LOL.   You were the biggest purveyor of disinformation on the board for quite some time regarding the Trump/Russia coordination hoax.   I’m sorry you were wrong and got called out.  
 

Try reading Guy’s post and without laughing say he was trying real hard to have an honest conversation.  Try reading guys posts to me and without laughing make the claim he doesn’t make personal references.   And from what I’m told, we’re in the shed and telling someone he is living in CA is allowed.   
 

now try reading people who respond to me and ask yourself who’s initiating “fights”.  Have I done it at times, sure.  But most of the time it ain’t me pal.  If you got a problem with keep reporting like you normally do.  
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For the record, I don't have any problem with how Archy responds to me, or to the board in general. He's on a political spectrum shared by 2/3rds of Nebraskans, and although I find the GOP and Rightwing talking points increasingly maddening, it would be weird to have no one on here making them. That's not trolling. Unless we've established that P&R is a GOP free zone. 

Having gotten to know Archy through his postings, I absolutely make it personal. I think he makes lazy and disingenuous arguments and on occasion I've used words specifically to insult him. I try not to drag Kansas into it, even though his dimwitted state has f#&%ed up almost everything it's touched recently

Archy is right roughly 16% of the time, and what's funny about Archy is that he will take that as proof that he's right. 

I strongly disagree with Archy that I'm not trying to have an honest conversation. Read it again, Arch. I am typically arguing for the nuance, context, and perspective every serious conversation demands.

I live in a liberal bubble which I acknowledge frequently. I also live in a state that somehow manages to mix its libtard culture wars with the most successful free-market capitalist economy in the U.S. and the world. It's complicated. That's where honest conversations come from.

You're also correct that we are in the Shed, where I am free to tell you to f#&% off. But I won't. Because that's childish.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
He's on a political spectrum shared by 2/3rds of Nebraskans
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You keep making this point, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. You don't live in Nebraska. Archy doesn't live in Nebraska.  

Why do you expect P&R to reflect the politics of Nebraskans when half of the people there aren't Nebraskan, or even native Nebraskan? 

 
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knapplc said:
You keep making this point, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. You don't live in Nebraska. Archy doesn't live in Nebraska.  

Why do you expect P&R to reflect the politics of Nebraskans when half of the people there aren't Nebraskan, or even native Nebraskan? 
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That's a pretty weird retort. 

On the one hand, America elected Donald Trump in 2016, and he got 10 million more votes in 2020. Ignore geography, go with a simple 50/50 split and you would expect any P&R Forum to reflect that balance. If we define trolling as defending Donald Trump or the GOP, this isn't really a forum. Every one of us who comes in here to post the latest egregious crap and blatant gotchas from the GOP stable is spoiling to get a reaction from the handful of defenders like Archy. As it should be. You do this all the time. So do I.

On the other hand, I did expect the P&R section of a Husker football fansite to lean much farther right than it does. I'm betting the average person would, too. I don't know why the breakdown would be important to you, but it seems clear a lot of folks do live there, or are from there. At the very least it's interesting. 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
That's a pretty weird retort. 

On the one hand, America elected Donald Trump in 2016, and he got 10 million more votes in 2020. Ignore geography, go with a simple 50/50 split and you would expect any P&R Forum to reflect that balance. If we define trolling as defending Donald Trump or the GOP, this isn't really a forum. Every one of us who comes in here to post the latest egregious crap and blatant gotchas from the GOP stable is spoiling to get a reaction from the handful of defenders like Archy. As it should be. You do this all the time. So do I.

On the other hand, I did expect the P&R section of a Husker football fansite to lean much farther right than it does. I'm betting the average person would, too. I don't know why the breakdown would be important to you, but it seems clear a lot of folks do live there, or are from there. At the very least it's interesting. 
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What?

I'm not talking about trolling or any of the Orange Man whatever whatever.

You keep saying you want or expect the P&R forum on this here website to reflect what you think the polling demo of Nebraska to be. 

But this forum isn't "Nebraska." And it never has been. 

Why would you, as a Nebraska fan not living in Nebraska, expect the denizens of this forum to be solely reflective of the folks scrubbing the dirt from our nails in Nebraska when the folks you interact with most aren't Nebraskans?

It's weird, especially when you know who most of the P&R folks are. 

 
Let's do a fun.

Let's list the main characters in P&R over the last, say, five years. Major contributors, prolific posters.

Then let's talk about where they live.

I'll start.

This knapplc guy. Born rural Nebraskan, lived in the Big City of Lincoln, then a bit in the liberal whackadoo hellscape of San Frickin Frisco, and thankfully back in the Star City embrace of Stinkin' Lincoln. 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
For the record, I don't have any problem with how Archy responds to me, or to the board in general. He's on a political spectrum shared by 2/3rds of Nebraskans, and although I find the GOP and Rightwing talking points increasingly maddening, it would be weird to have no one on here making them. That's not trolling. Unless we've established that P&R is a GOP free zone. 
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I sort of agree with this but I am curious about one nuance. It doesn’t really matter to me if it’s considered trolling or not but what do you call it when a person constantly ignores better and more well vetted and accepted facts and keeps making points and arguments that fly in the face of those facts? Certainly that can’t be solely attributed to just a different point of view or just a difference of party preference. In many cases it has to be an intentional decision to act like the facts staring them in the face don’t exist. So I ask, if that’s not trolling then what is it? And if it is something slightly different, what is substantially wrong with some calling it trolling? Actually seems like a nicer option than calling them stupid or dense or willfully dishonest or all the other things it also is.

 
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