Taylor Martinez 2013 discussion - running tougher? better decisions in the pocket?

[kchusker_chris]

Does anyone really care anymore?

Only those who click on the thread and take time to write a response, even if it doesn't contribute to the discussion..... :lol:

Not doggin on you here, actually an honest question....how is it that you've been a member for 4 years, have 133 total posts now - and 20% of them have come in the last 3 days, in this thread, defending Cody Green or calling me emotional? What gives?

 

[kchusker_chris]

Just read through a few posts on here. Hahaha. I felt obligated to comment. So here it goes:

1) Zac Lee basically tore the ACL of your arm in the Sun Belt Conference Tour that year. He was then hit in the Va Tech game that made this injury really bad. (I specifically remember one throw in the fourth quarter toward the sideline that if he would have thrown accurately Kinnie scores). Many people told me before this injury happened that ZL would make an NFL roster. He could have chosen to get surgery done then, but this didnt occur. Mixed reviews on why.

2) TMart was brought in as an athlete with a chance to play QB. Cody Green came in that year a semester early; thus he knew the offense a lot better and at this stage was flat out a better all around QB. TMart was working out at WR as late in the year as bowl preparations. It wasn't really until the second semester that year that the coaches said he's a QB. It wasn't until a week before the first game where TMart made our starting D look STUPID in the final scrimmage that they said he's our starter. That I have on very good account. The plan before that was to use TMart basically as a Tim Tebow where he had his packages that he'd be able to execute very well.

2B) We should be kicking ourselves for the 2010 year. In a year where we lost two regular season games basically because of our inexperience at QB, and a year that you avoid playing BAMA for a MNC, we should be kicking ourselves. I was in the ZL camp from the beginning. But we mortgaged the season on an inexperienced QB who graded out as the best athlete, but third best QB on our roster. We should be absolutely kicking ourselves as we have no excuse as to why we lost those two in season games and the CCG.

3) TMart has worked his butt off an deserves our respect.

All of these.

Originally he was recruited as a safety...after his senior season it was obvious he would be given a chance at QB.

"They said I'll have a chance to play quarterback there," Martinez said, "so we'll see."
Anyone who has tracked Martinez's career knows he's unlikely to settle for anything less.

http://articles.lati.../sp-hsfbdavis11

I kind of agree about 2B. I was in the Lee camp as well if I remember correctly. I liked what I saw in that Arizona game...where we got a little taste of what the offense would be operating like in 2010. I thought he played near flawlessly and certainly excited about 2010. But now that I look back on it, a lot of hypotheticals come into play had Taylor not started that year. We definately go into 2011 with a QB controversy. Taylor is much less experienced, etc. Would Watson still maybe be here? Would Beck? Maybe Green doesn't transfer. Who knows what might have happened. I hate that 2010 turned out the way it did, but I like how things have come together the last couple years with Beck, and I'm not 100% sure that would have all happened if Lee has started 2010.

 

[AllNRed]

Yeah, I don't know what you're getting at, because my basic point is the same as yours. We haven't had depth. Lee was never the same after ASU, and i don't think he was all that great (he was 3rd on the DC in 2008 behind Witt). Cody Green was hyped because he had one run in garbage time against FAU. He couldn't throw, and was slow off the line, so he couldn't execute the ZR against anyone with speed. He was slated as a TE or Athlete by other schools because of this. RK isn't fast nor a particularly great passer (but he's probably our best), and Carnes couldn't grasp the offense. Tommy appears to have speed, a grasp of the offense, and the ability to throw.

In closing, I didn't really care about your discussion. I just think the whole "Cody was undefeated as a starter!!!" point is laughable.

I agree. I'm by far not stating Cody Green was the best option we had at QB, but I do believe he wasn't utilize according to his skill set...No he didn't run the ZR well. Green is a pro-style back and needed to be in a pro-style system. Green would have been a much better QB in a Brady Hoke system at Michigan (or at least what he's molding the team into now after Shoelace's departure). NU didn't have an identity on offense for a while because the HC wanted it to look like something the OC either wasn't capable of delivering or refused to altar his philosophies in delivering, thus they tried to meet in the middle and we got what we saw in 2009. This is the reason Watson wanted Green over Martinez. It's the reason why he recruited Green so hard. He was the type of QB that Watson needs to run his system....Just look at Brett Nelson & Will Gardner, two QBs he recruited to Louisiville since he arrived there. Green runs a similar system down in Tulsa now. (P.S. he wasn't slow off the line, just not as fast with his first step as Martinez)

To be fair, Martinez didn't run the ZR very well either, but his raw ability was able to delete a wrong read because he could get to top speed almost immediately and he wasn't being caught if he's already in stride. Lee actually ran the ZR best of the three but for some reason he just looked to be running in sand when he was on the move.. I don't understand that because he ran a 4.5 40 yard dash. He just never seem to get up the field like someone with a 40 time in that range. I think his longest run came vs Arizona for 10 yards.

It's comment's like "RK isn't very fast nor a great passer but he's probably our best" that puzzles me. How can a man who has done next to nothing as a back up be considered our best? Carnes is 2/2 for 26 yards (only game he threw passes was vs Chattanooga). Neither of these two do I consider to even have an argument of being a quality back up. Yet Green's accomplishments as a starter for 4 games is laughable.......

 

[In the Deed the Glory]

Remember when Mike Grant got hurt and a freshman started? Was that decision right?

Was Gerry Gdowski good enough to have started as a junior? What happened there?

Why didn't Turner Gill want to move up to Varsity when TO asked him? Maybe that was a mistake to start him after that?

See how those are irrelevant to what is happening right now? Kind of like Sam Keller and Joe Ganz. Kind of like Zac Lee and Cody Green.

Lee was injured, that is the only fact we have. The rest is speculation...

I hope T-Magic is ready for a break out year.

 

[AllNRed]

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/209470-qb-lee-is-just-fine

This link is from 2010. The discussion was about the 2009 season. Lee had surgery on his elbow in the first week of January, 2010.

Yes, I know. The comments from Paul and Pelini were about Lee's throwing and health after his surgery, a few weeks before the start of fall camp. Showing that he was healthy and not nagging from any injury the previous season, thus the excuse some used as to why he couldn't produce enough to keep his starting job in fall camp.

 

[AllNRed]

Does anyone really care anymore?

Only those who click on the thread and take time to write a response, even if it doesn't contribute to the discussion..... :lol:

Not doggin on you here, actually an honest question....how is it that you've been a member for 4 years, have 133 total posts now - and 20% of them have come in the last 3 days, in this thread, defending Cody Green or calling me emotional? What gives?

Did I call you emotional.....I don't remember that. I apologize.

I signed up 4 years ago, but do to my career I wasn't able to start posting immediately. Eventually I couldn't remember my password or email I used when signed up. I ended up just signing up on another husker message board, which I still post on. I came across the welcome email while clearing out my inbox and was able to get my password.

I'm a very sarcastic but fun going individual. Nothing I say on this board is meant to come off rude or as a personal attack in anyway. I just think it's weird I say one thing and it gets blown out of the box as if my opinion/theory/thought isn't as valid as the next poster's, like in the Dayne/Rozier conversation. People misinterpret my original point and focus on just the part that they don't agree with and make it seem as if I'm bashing or discrediting a husker I spent years cheering for just like the next fan. I mention the same things on other Husker boards and no not all agreed but they understood my point of view as well as stated their own, rather than trying to make me out to be some bad guy who doesn't like the huskers. Most of my current posts are just me trying to re-explain my opinion because new members keep coming into a conversation making me out to saying something I'm not.

It's all good though. Helps me to get through the off season as well as have decent football talk. I don't know everything. I never want to make it out to seem like I think I do. I just don't like when my post is comprehended incorrectly and then they argue that point with a "passion".... :lol:

 

[AllNRed]

Remember when Mike Grant got hurt and a freshman started? Was that decision right?

Was Gerry Gdowski good enough to have started as a junior? What happened there?

Why didn't Turner Gill want to move up to Varsity when TO asked him? Maybe that was a mistake to start him after that?

See how those are irrelevant to what is happening right now? Kind of like Sam Keller and Joe Ganz. Kind of like Zac Lee and Cody Green.

Lee was injured, that is the only fact we have. The rest is speculation...

I hope T-Magic is ready for a break out year.

Should we not talk about them because they are irrelevant? What else would you have us do, wait til fall camp and discuss what goes on just in that day.

 

[Landlord]

http://www.fannation...ee-is-just-fine

This link is from 2010. The discussion was about the 2009 season. Lee had surgery on his elbow in the first week of January, 2010.

Yes, I know. The comments from Paul and Pelini were about Lee's throwing and health after his surgery, a few weeks before the start of fall camp. Showing that he was healthy and not nagging from any injury the previous season, thus the excuse some used as to why he couldn't produce enough to keep his starting job in fall camp.

Zac Lee got re-injured in 2010, actually, without it ever being officially reported. Not during preseason, when he was healthy and still beaten out by Taylor as the coaches thought he fit the offensive direction best and gave the best chance to win, but he would have gotten the go-ahead when Taylor was hurt if he was healthy and capable of doing so.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

OMG, I need a drink after trying to read all of this. I am done, the guy obviously knows Zac Lee and the whole football staff/players better than anyone here. No sense in telling him the obvious.

If you don't think Lee was injured, so be it. The rest of us, know the truth.

 

[In the Deed the Glory]

Remember when Mike Grant got hurt and a freshman started? Was that decision right?

Was Gerry Gdowski good enough to have started as a junior? What happened there?

Why didn't Turner Gill want to move up to Varsity when TO asked him? Maybe that was a mistake to start him after that?

See how those are irrelevant to what is happening right now? Kind of like Sam Keller and Joe Ganz. Kind of like Zac Lee and Cody Green.

Lee was injured, that is the only fact we have. The rest is speculation...

I hope T-Magic is ready for a break out year.

She we not talk about them because they are irrelevant? What else would you have us do, wait til fall camp and discuss what goes on just in that day.

Title of the thread:

Taylor Martinez 2013 discussion

Does that answer your question? I don't know what your unhealthy obsession with Cody Green is about, but it is about time to let it go. He was an average game manager. Zac Lee was a better game manager. He was never going to fit here with the way Bo wanted the offense to go. He wasn't better than Taylor then. He is absolutely not as good as Taylor now. I wouldn't change them for a second.

As far as Taylor's year, I think the improvement on the offensive line and another year of experience for RBs and WRs will really help him excel. I worry about the TEs in the running game other than Long. We shall see if he can clean up his ball protection. I think if you take into account his work ethic in the offseason we could have a scary good QB this season. You know, 2013.

 

[Saunders]

Yeah, I don't know what you're getting at, because my basic point is the same as yours. We haven't had depth. Lee was never the same after ASU, and i don't think he was all that great (he was 3rd on the DC in 2008 behind Witt). Cody Green was hyped because he had one run in garbage time against FAU. He couldn't throw, and was slow off the line, so he couldn't execute the ZR against anyone with speed. He was slated as a TE or Athlete by other schools because of this. RK isn't fast nor a particularly great passer (but he's probably our best), and Carnes couldn't grasp the offense. Tommy appears to have speed, a grasp of the offense, and the ability to throw.

In closing, I didn't really care about your discussion. I just think the whole "Cody was undefeated as a starter!!!" point is laughable.

I agree. I'm by far not stating Cody Green was the best option we had at QB, but I do believe he wasn't utilize according to his skill set...No he didn't run the ZR well. Green is a pro-style back and needed to be in a pro-style system. Green would have been a much better QB in a Brady Hoke system at Michigan (or at least what he's molding the team into now after Shoelace's departure). NU didn't have an identity on offense for a while because the HC wanted it to look like something the OC either wasn't capable of delivering or refused to altar his philosophies in delivering, thus they tried to meet in the middle and we got what we saw in 2009. This is the reason Watson wanted Green over Martinez. It's the reason why he recruited Green so hard. He was the type of QB that Watson needs to run his system....Just look at Brett Nelson & Will Gardner, two QBs he recruited to Louisiville since he arrived there. Green runs a similar system down in Tulsa now. (P.S. he wasn't slow off the line, just not as fast with his first step as Martinez)

To be fair, Martinez didn't run the ZR very well either, but his raw ability was able to delete a wrong read because he could get to top speed almost immediately and he wasn't being caught if he's already in stride. Lee actually ran the ZR best of the three but for some reason he just looked to be running in sand when he was on the move.. I don't understand that because he ran a 4.5 40 yard dash. He just never seem to get up the field like someone with a 40 time in that range. I think his longest run came vs Arizona for 10 yards.

It's comment's like "RK isn't very fast nor a great passer but he's probably our best" that puzzles me. How can a man who has done next to nothing as a back up be considered our best? Carnes is 2/2 for 26 yards (only game he threw passes was vs Chattanooga). Neither of these two do I consider to even have an argument of being a quality back up. Yet Green's accomplishments as a starter for 4 games is laughable.......

I was stating that Kellogg is the best thrower we have on the roster, but none of our QB's are excellent passers.

 

[AllNRed]

Remember when Mike Grant got hurt and a freshman started? Was that decision right?

Was Gerry Gdowski good enough to have started as a junior? What happened there?

Why didn't Turner Gill want to move up to Varsity when TO asked him? Maybe that was a mistake to start him after that?

See how those are irrelevant to what is happening right now? Kind of like Sam Keller and Joe Ganz. Kind of like Zac Lee and Cody Green.

Lee was injured, that is the only fact we have. The rest is speculation...

I hope T-Magic is ready for a break out year.

She we not talk about them because they are irrelevant? What else would you have us do, wait til fall camp and discuss what goes on just in that day.

Title of the thread:

Taylor Martinez 2013 discussion

Does that answer your question? I don't know what your unhealthy obsession with Cody Green is about, but it is about time to let it go. He was an average game manager. Zac Lee was a better game manager. He was never going to fit here with the way Bo wanted the offense to go. He wasn't better than Taylor then. He is absolutely not as good as Taylor now. I wouldn't change them for a second.

As far as Taylor's year, I think the improvement on the offensive line and another year of experience for RBs and WRs will really help him excel. I worry about the TEs in the running game other than Long. We shall see if he can clean up his ball protection. I think if you take into account his work ethic in the offseason we could have a scary good QB this season. You know, 2013.

No, the thread title just stats the reason the OP started the thread. Through discussion the back ups to the player he mention came about, Green/Lee/Carnes/Kellogg were/are all back ups during that time. Nice try though.

And what's so unhealthy about me saying that Green wasn't a bum. I never stated he was better than Martinez then nor now. I even pointed out that I don't think he would have been able to run the system he was put in simply because of his skill set. Try again.

So, back to my question. What would you have us do? If you mention Martinez, you are talking about husker QBs, thus former husker QBs will be brought up. Now the minute a Martinez thread is started and someone starts discussing the defensive problems and who was a better LB, etc......then I'll give you one of these "+1".

 

[AllNRed]

Yeah, I don't know what you're getting at, because my basic point is the same as yours. We haven't had depth. Lee was never the same after ASU, and i don't think he was all that great (he was 3rd on the DC in 2008 behind Witt). Cody Green was hyped because he had one run in garbage time against FAU. He couldn't throw, and was slow off the line, so he couldn't execute the ZR against anyone with speed. He was slated as a TE or Athlete by other schools because of this. RK isn't fast nor a particularly great passer (but he's probably our best), and Carnes couldn't grasp the offense. Tommy appears to have speed, a grasp of the offense, and the ability to throw.

In closing, I didn't really care about your discussion. I just think the whole "Cody was undefeated as a starter!!!" point is laughable.

I agree. I'm by far not stating Cody Green was the best option we had at QB, but I do believe he wasn't utilize according to his skill set...No he didn't run the ZR well. Green is a pro-style back and needed to be in a pro-style system. Green would have been a much better QB in a Brady Hoke system at Michigan (or at least what he's molding the team into now after Shoelace's departure). NU didn't have an identity on offense for a while because the HC wanted it to look like something the OC either wasn't capable of delivering or refused to altar his philosophies in delivering, thus they tried to meet in the middle and we got what we saw in 2009. This is the reason Watson wanted Green over Martinez. It's the reason why he recruited Green so hard. He was the type of QB that Watson needs to run his system....Just look at Brett Nelson & Will Gardner, two QBs he recruited to Louisiville since he arrived there. Green runs a similar system down in Tulsa now. (P.S. he wasn't slow off the line, just not as fast with his first step as Martinez)

To be fair, Martinez didn't run the ZR very well either, but his raw ability was able to delete a wrong read because he could get to top speed almost immediately and he wasn't being caught if he's already in stride. Lee actually ran the ZR best of the three but for some reason he just looked to be running in sand when he was on the move.. I don't understand that because he ran a 4.5 40 yard dash. He just never seem to get up the field like someone with a 40 time in that range. I think his longest run came vs Arizona for 10 yards.

It's comment's like "RK isn't very fast nor a great passer but he's probably our best" that puzzles me. How can a man who has done next to nothing as a back up be considered our best? Carnes is 2/2 for 26 yards (only game he threw passes was vs Chattanooga). Neither of these two do I consider to even have an argument of being a quality back up. Yet Green's accomplishments as a starter for 4 games is laughable.......

I was stating that Kellogg is the best thrower we have on the roster, but none of our QB's are excellent passers.

Oh okay. Have you seen Armstrong's throwing....He's not too shabby.

One think that jumps in and out of my mind is Martinez....I wonder if he still has the ability to improve on his passing, or is has he reached his peak. Either or, I think it would be good enough for NU to get to where they need to be this season as last season he shut quite a few critics up, even myself at times.

 

[AllNRed]

http://www.fannation...ee-is-just-fine

This link is from 2010. The discussion was about the 2009 season. Lee had surgery on his elbow in the first week of January, 2010.

Yes, I know. The comments from Paul and Pelini were about Lee's throwing and health after his surgery, a few weeks before the start of fall camp. Showing that he was healthy and not nagging from any injury the previous season, thus the excuse some used as to why he couldn't produce enough to keep his starting job in fall camp.

Zac Lee got re-injured in 2010, actually, without it ever being officially reported. Not during preseason, when he was healthy and still beaten out by Taylor as the coaches thought he fit the offensive direction best and gave the best chance to win, but he would have gotten the go-ahead when Taylor was hurt if he was healthy and capable of doing so.

I know this.....I think the rumor on here was a torn Labrum sometime during or after the Mizzou game......did Lee receive surgery? I don't remember anything suggesting he did. A physician told me that an injury like that without surgery and going to physical therapy at least 3-4 times a week, it could take any where's from 4 weeks to 8 months to get back to full strength. And sometimes you still don't get to 100%. That's depending on the severity of the injury, of course, but in this case he miss the rest of the season, IIRC. So without surgery on a injury that took him out for the last month of his senior season, Lee was able to get back to full strength in time for pro day at the beginning of March & have a good enough showing that the Seahawks showed a little interest in him after seeing his numbers. I'll ignore the fact that he was practicing during the end of his senior season, which caused many posters to say that Lee was still in "Bo's doghouse" which is another conspiracy to why Lee didn't get the starting spot out of fall camp. I'll also, ignore the fact that Lee said himself in an interview on the radio that he was healthy enough to go the following week and that the injury wasn't major at all (he said something about hitting his hand on a helmet or something). Let's also ignore the fact that Bo said Lee will be fine during the week following the Mizzou game.

I guess it just depends on which side you would like to stand on I guess.

 

[ADS]

This thread turned out exactly how I pictured it would