The Democrat Utopia

[hskrpwr13]

Nothing in my replies should lead you to that conclusion. But I’ve probably added to one that you haven’t read yet. The way you’re coming off is really ignorant about the health issues pregnancies can lead to for women and previously, and the reasons people have abortions. It’s pretty callous. 

The nuance I was trying to make was about the sales pitch to get people to vote for abortion. You stated it well with "can lead to." I 100% agree. And when that possibility occurs, unfortunately decisions have to be made. 

@funhusker post resonated with me. I'm all for laws that support people in these circumstances. 

As I stand today, I'll never vote for an abortion law that includes termination due to parenthood or unhappiness with the perfection of the baby. To me, those reasons for abortion are pretty callous.

 

[teachercd]

So I teach a class where we cover sexual assault and I think a lot of guys have NO IDEA how many times girls will just "do it" because they feel that is the only way to get out of a situation that they feel scared of.

We read story after story of girls that say "It was just easier to do it" because of XYZ.  Mostly because they were worried things get turn violent and/or uncomfortable.

It is so easy for us guys to be like "Just say no" or "Just leave" but that is just not fair.

So now those girls might have be in a super f#&%ing bind because you don't think they should be able to get an abortion???

To quote my HS football coach when I asked if I could play QB:  "f#&% off"

 

[hskrpwr13]

Thank you.  But taking a “macro” level thought process will have huge effect on “micro” level decisions.

I get your point, but we do that with everything unless we're going to start vetting voters on their personal experiences. 

 

[Lorewarn]

• A cells/zygote/fetus/whatever is not "life." Bulls#!t. Barring a complication, life is the expected outcome of the conception.
  

Nobody argues that a new instance of unique DNA isn't life. This is nobody's argument. People argue that it does not have personhood. I shed skin cells constantly that have my unique DNA, and they die, and that's not killing a person.

• Even though it may be the vast minority that use abortion for 'the right to f#&% without the responsibility of parenthood' or will abort until they get the designer baby they're after. I wish the pro abortion crowd would openly denounce this type of behavior instead of only focusing on the "rights" aspect of the debate.
  

Oh man. Nobody is denouncing this because this type of person is a myth (that doesn't mean nobody anywhere has ever behaved this way, but it does mean that this caricature is rare enough to by and large be ignored). People getting a 2nd abortion (let alone a 3rd or more which is very rare) are people who are usually older, have already had a kid, were using contraceptives, are low income, and minorities (or some combination of all of these factors). For most, it's a traumatic and awful experience that can wreak havoc on your spirit and your body (and most people believe that it lessens your fertility).

Where are you learning these mischaracterizations? 

Please do the absolute bare minimum of actively trying to understand where reality lies here.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5771530/

 

[Mierin]

Are you of the opinion no Dr.’s lie or fudge about things in Healthcare?  If so, you may want to take the advice you gave him and do some research.  

No, they try to make money. But writing off women’s health issues during pregnancy by implying they can easily just find a doctor to lie so they can get an abortion for any reason is ridiculous and callous. 

And telling a woman of child bearing age they need to read more about healthcare is a bit rich, especially when we’re in this conversation. 

 

[Mierin]

The nuance I was trying to make was about the sales pitch to get people to vote for abortion. You stated it well with "can lead to." I 100% agree. And when that possibility occurs, unfortunately decisions have to be made. 

@funhusker post resonated with me. I'm all for laws that support people in these circumstances. 

As I stand today, I'll never vote for an abortion law that includes termination due to parenthood or unhappiness with the perfection of the baby. To me, those reasons for abortion are pretty callous.

It’s insanely callous to just write it off as part of a sales pitch when women have died due to new state abortion laws. 

And you’re mostly arguing against a strawman with your last paragraph. Sure there are people like this (in here, mostly teach I think), but most people think there should be limits on abortion. 

 

[teachercd]

https://www.chronicle.com/article/colleges-wrestle-with-how-to-define-rape/

 

[Archy1221]

@funhusker post resonated with me. I'm all for laws that support people in these circumstances

I don’t live in Nebraska so others would know better than I, but would it be illegal to abort a non-living baby?  I.e. a baby without a heartbeat as what unfortunately happened in that case?   He stated his wife probably wouldn’t be able to do that again, have a procedure to abort the dead fetus with no heartbeat.   I would assume a baby with no heartbeat would be allowed to be removed.  Worth checking into.  

 

[Mierin]

Just for a minute, think of being a woman in this situation. I don’t plan on getting pregnant, so even I haven’t really thought that much about it. 

These women mostly in their first trimester are having to go and get help from people who are worried they could face jail time or be fined six figures. Imagine having to deal with that as a patient talking to your nurses and doctor. And please for a second stop thinking about those horrible women who just want to kill their unborn children due to the inconvenience. 

These six week laws are just not good. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/20/texas-abortion-law-miscarriages-ectopic-pregnancies/

 

[Archy1221]

No, they try to make money. But writing off women’s health issues during pregnancy by implying they can easily just find a doctor to lie so they can get an abortion for any reason is ridiculous and callous. 

no one is “writing off women’s health issues during pregnancy” as you stated by letting you know there are Doctors out there who aren’t always the most ethical and are willing to fudge the rules set forth.  You very well could find a Dr. that empathizes with a woman’s plight to get an abortion and finds a reason to state her life was in danger if she continued on with the pregnancy.   Said Dr. very well may believe he/she is doing the right thing even though the law would have frowned on that particular case where life of the mother wasn’t at stake, but he/she felt sincere in believing the woman did not to be a mother at that time.   It’s ridiculous not callous 

And telling a woman of child birthing age they need to read more about healthcare is a bit rich, especially when we’re in this conversation. 

Ehhh, just because you are a woman of child bearing age certainly doesn’t mean you couldn’t learn a thing or two or three about various aspects of healthcare.  We can ALL continue to get more informed in various aspects of healthcare. 

 

[hskrpwr13]

Nobody argues that a new instance of unique DNA isn't life. This is nobody's argument. People argue that it does not have personhood. I shed skin cells constantly that have my unique DNA, and they die, and that's not killing a person.

Oh man. Nobody is denouncing this because this type of person is a made up myth. People getting a 2nd abortion (let alone a 3rd or more which is very rare) are people who are usually older, have already had a kid, were using contraceptives, are low income, and minorities (or some combination of all of these factors). For most, it's a traumatic and awful experience that can wreak havoc on your spirit and your body (and most people believe that it lessens your fertility).

Where are you learning these mischaracterizations? 

Please do the absolute bare minimum of actively trying to understand where reality lies here.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5771530/

The argument that life doesn't happen until birth has often been used to promote a pro abortion stance.

The 2nd part you state is a myth, then you give examples of situations that would fall into that very example.

I wasn't making a plea to stop abortion due to these things. I was providing commentary on how some try to get all of us to vote (its probably more feel about it if I'm being honest about my thought) on the topic. If the thoughts I brought up are so rooted in the imaginary, why take such a strong stance on it? What I would consider reasonable abortion laws appear to have been enacted most everywhere (yes, there are a few places where the laws are definitely more restrictive. 

 

[Archy1221]

Just for a minute, think of being a woman in this situation. I don’t plan on getting pregnant but even I haven’t really thought that much about it. 

These women are having to go and get help from people who are worried they could face jail time or be fined six figures. Imagine having to deal with that as a patient. And please for a second stop thinking about those horrible women who just want to kill their unborn children due to the inconvenience. 

These six week laws are just not good. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/20/texas-abortion-law-miscarriages-ectopic-pregnancies/

How many Doctors have been charged, convicted, or fined for providing care you just cited as being legal? 

 

[knapplc]

 Believe it or not, there are doctors that don't always "do the right thing."

Then investigate those doctors. These would be a vanishingly small percentage of doctors. Doctors ascribe to the Hippocratic Oath, the most important pillar of which is, Do No Harm. 99.99% of doctors will do this. 

Banning abortion because you believe there are "political doctors" out there is massive overkill. 

 

[knapplc]

If the thoughts I brought up are so rooted in the imaginary, why take such a strong stance on it?

...because conservatives are actively trying to make abortion illegal? Because the Supreme Court just overturned Roe v Wade? 

Banning abortion kills women and criminalizes doctors. It's an extreme step that is none of this nation's business. The decision to abort a pregnancy should only be between the woman and her healthcare provider. 

 

[DefenderAO]

Okay, so it is clear that you did not get a bid to a frat.

It is also clear that you dislike women and/or think very little of them.

Also, it is clear that you have no idea what frat parties look like but is is also clear that you have watched a lot of Cinemax After Dark movies back in the day...Me too!  Turns out those were not documentaries.  

f#&%ing is okay, f#&%ing people that you don't plan to spend the rest of your life with is okay.  Abortion is hardly used as birth control, it is used as a last resort for most people.  

I am guessing you are a guy, would you like it if I could choose if you had to have your nuts snipped?  Of course not. 

Too busy playing college basketball to concern myself with the debauchery.  

f#&%ing is okay, f#&%ing people that you don't plan to spend the rest of your life with is okay.  Abortion is hardly used as birth control, it is used as a last resort for most people.  

This is your moral baseline.  Glad we're in opposite camps.