The Democrat Utopia

Guy Chamberlin said:
The people in the year 2015 would already have witnessed the riots in Ferguson, Missouri after the murder of a Black man by police, and protesters who faced a surprisingly aggressive response from a suburban police force that had been militarized with advanced weaponry and riot control sold on the cheap by the Pentagon
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I assume you mean the “hands up don’t shoot” shooting of which the hands up don’t shoot was shown to be false and even Eric Holder of all people was forced to admit the shooting was justified and certainly not murder.   That one?   I do often wonder if the aggressive response was because cops were tired of getting killed during the protests?  
 

https://www.stlpr.org/government-politics-issues/2015-03-24/why-did-the-justice-department-conclude-that-hands-up-dont-shoot-was-a-myth

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/eric-holder-shooting-of-cops-in-ferguson-inexcusable-and-repugnant/

 
Archy1221 said:
Hey, you rationalize these rioters anyway you see fit.  I’m certainly not gonna stop you and I actually encourage you to do more of it.  
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And I guess you can pretend this President isn't actively encouraging chaos in pretty much everything he touches.  I might encourage him to do more of it if I thought it would speed his removal from office, but I'd have to weigh it against all the people getting hurt in the meantime.

 
Archy1221 said:
I assume you mean the “hands up don’t shoot” shooting of which the hands up don’t shoot was shown to be false and even Eric Holder of all people was forced to admit the shooting was justified and certainly not murder.   That one?   I do often wonder if the aggressive response was because cops were tired of getting killed during the protests?  
 

https://www.stlpr.org/government-politics-issues/2015-03-24/why-did-the-justice-department-conclude-that-hands-up-dont-shoot-was-a-myth

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/eric-holder-shooting-of-cops-in-ferguson-inexcusable-and-repugnant/
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Yes, that one. The same one where the DOJ, after exonerating Darren Wilson and debunking the 'hands up don't shoot' narrative, also found that the Ferguson police department and courts routinely violated the Constitution and federal law with a pattern of rampant racial bias and discrimination, unreasonable force, intentional discrimination, and mistreatment of detainees for years. 

The flashpoint incident didn't happen the way people thought, but there nonetheless existed a tower of racist kindling soaked in excessive force gasoline and lit cigarette butts of discrimination and harassment that lended itself to being quite easily ignited. 

 
Lorewarn said:
Yes, that one. The same one where the DOJ, after exonerating Darren Wilson and debunking the 'hands up don't shoot' narrative, also found that the Ferguson police department and courts routinely violated the Constitution and federal law with a pattern of rampant racial bias and discrimination, unreasonable force, intentional discrimination, and mistreatment of detainees for years. 

The flashpoint incident didn't happen the way people thought, but there nonetheless existed a tower of racist kindling soaked in excessive force gasoline and lit cigarette butts of discrimination and harassment that lended itself to being quite easily ignited. 
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Which means it goes along the same lines as every other protest turned riot where legitimate grievances get overwhelmed by bad actors on both sides.

I was mostly responding to Archy's social media repost that presumed someone from 2015 would find these LA riots somehow shocking or unbelievable. 

It would be silly whataboutism to bring up J6 at every turn but.....uhm....what do you suppose that person from 2015 would think about the Capitol Insurrection in 2021 in that moment when Trump was first announcing his candidacy? 

 
Lorewarn said:
Yes, that one. The same one where the DOJ, after exonerating Darren Wilson and debunking the 'hands up don't shoot' narrative
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Good.  So we are in agreement “ hands up don’t shoot” was a myth and Michael Brown wasn’t murdered like Guy claimed.  
 

and yes, DOJ civil rights division found some past egregious police behavior, though not with the officer in question and didn’t play a part in the case in question brought up by Guy 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
It would be silly whataboutism to bring up J6 at every turn but.....uhm....what do you suppose that person from 2015 would think about the Capitol Insurrection in 2021 in that moment when Trump was first announcing his candidacy?
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My guess is people would think those Jan 6 rioters assaulting police and damaging the Capitol were bat s#!t crazy. 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Another option is to do nothing. 
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Doing nothing and letting ICE do extremely unpopular and largely theatrical immigration "raids" is by far the best option.

The more unpopular Trump is, the more Democrats win by in 2026. By 2028, if we still let Trump be and do unpopular things, Democrats have a small but realistic chance to win the Senate and with it a Trifecta.

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
Doing nothing and letting ICE do extremely unpopular and largely theatrical immigration "raids" is by far the best option.

The more unpopular Trump is, the more Democrats win by in 2026. By 2028, if we still let Trump be and do unpopular things, Democrats have a small but realistic chance to win the Senate and with it a Trifecta.
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Immigration is actually one area Trump is positive on. 

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
Doing nothing and letting ICE do extremely unpopular and largely theatrical immigration "raids" is by far the best option.

The more unpopular Trump is, the more Democrats win by in 2026. By 2028, if we still let Trump be and do unpopular things, Democrats have a small but realistic chance to win the Senate and with it a Trifecta.
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As a counterpoint, ethically, opposing bad is good.

 
Dr. Strangelove said:
Doing nothing and letting ICE do extremely unpopular and largely theatrical immigration "raids" is by far the best option.

The more unpopular Trump is, the more Democrats win by in 2026. By 2028, if we still let Trump be and do unpopular things, Democrats have a small but realistic chance to win the Senate and with it a Trifecta.
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Remember when centrist Democrats told Martin Luther King Jr. to tone down the civil rights protests because -- although they were totally sympathetic to the cause -- seeing negroes in the street was hurting John F. Kennedy and the Southern Dems electoral chances, and Martin Luther King Jr. said "good point" and just let the southern racists do their worst?

I don't. 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Remember when centrist Democrats told Martin Luther King Jr. to tone down the civil rights protests because -- although they were totally sympathetic to the cause -- seeing negroes in the street was hurting John F. Kennedy and the Southern Dems electoral chances, and Martin Luther King Jr. said "good point" and just let the southern racists do their worst?

I don't. 
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Remember when Martin Luther King Jr burned cars in the streets and threw bricks at police while chucking bikes and rocks off of overpasses at cars?   
 

I don’t 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Remember when centrist Democrats told Martin Luther King Jr. to tone down the civil rights protests because -- although they were totally sympathetic to the cause -- seeing negroes in the street was hurting John F. Kennedy and the Southern Dems electoral chances, and Martin Luther King Jr. said "good point" and just let the southern racists do their worst?

I don't. 
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I mean, if you think the civil rights movements of the 1960s and resist Trump 2.0 are the same, by all means, be prepared to watch in horror as the Trump resistance implodes.

Personally, I don't want JD Vance to win in 2028.

 
Danny Bateman said:
As a counterpoint, ethically, opposing bad is good.
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I'm not disagreeing but winning elections is better. If you want to oppose bad, my recommendation is to win so we're the ones that nominate who leads ICE and control the institutions of power.

Public opinion is solidly against Trump on his immigration efforts - his strongest issue - letting him be unpopular and winning elections to counter him is the best an most effective way to defeat MAGA conservatism. 

 
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