The Environment

[TGHusker]

http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/Economy/US-Trump-Climate-Economy/2017/06/01/id/793507/

This article notes that Trump's bet that pulling out of the accord will increase jobs here will fail. Saving coal jobs for example will result is un not creating new jobs in new energy and falling behind China and others in those technologies. We can choose to be a part of the future and grow, or we can remain in horse and buggy days and fall behind.

A gut hunch here: I may be totally wrong - in spite of the news elsewhere and based on Trump's breaking of campaign pledges (withdrawing from Paris is one pledge) - I thing Trump might surprise us and decided not to pull out. I don't say this because he all of a sudden got enlightened but rather because of his streak of breaking campaign pledges and because he will be boxed in the corner to do so by the law itself as noted in the posts above. But I won't be surprised if he does the stupid and pulls out either. With his character issues he could break his campaign pledge or pull out because he ignorantly and arrogantly thinks it is the right thing to do. His only predictability is his unpredictability.

 

[Mierin]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/335886-gop-rep-on-climate-change-god-will-take-care-of-it

Rep. Tim Walberg (R-Mich.) told constituents last week that he believes if climate change is a real problem, God can fix it.

I believe theres climate change, Walberg said at a town hall last Friday in Coldwater, Mich., according to the Huffington Post, which obtained video of the exchange.

I believe theres been climate change since the beginning of time. I think there are cycles. Do I think that man has some impact? Yeah, of course. Can man change the entire universe? No.

Why do I believe that? Well, as a Christian, I believe that there is a creator in God who is much bigger than us. And Im confident that, if theres a real problem, he can take care of it.

xkcd comes to mind:

I've personally met Christians who say the same thing. That God will take care of it. This ignores the fact there are dozens of verses about humans taking care of the earth and its creatures.
Also, has he read revelation?

Last but not least, since when does God make sure nothing bad happens?

 

[RedDenver]

Recent surveys of the Great Barrier Reef aren't looking good:

The back-to-back bleaching events and "extraordinary rapidity" of climate change have pushed Australia's Great Barrier Reef to a point of no return. Experts claimed that the largest reef system in the world has been damaged beyond repair and can no longer be saved.

 

[Mike Mcdee]

I could also see it as Trump wanting his ego stroked by those that criticize him the most. If he fails to go through his campaign promise and back out of the Paris Agreement, he won't really loose any support from his base. That base is really going to back him no matter what he does. He would get a nice bump of good PR if he chose to stick with the Paris agreement. People who have been critical of him on policy would then say he is making the right decision. Thus getting his ego stroked giving him a nice warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[knapplc]

The only people who would see staying in the Paris agreement as a "win" for Trump are people who are already in the bag for him.

Nobody who's objectively followed this situation would see it as anything other than another self-created Trump problem.

 

[QMany]

 

[knapplc]

Whenever Trump does something, ask yourself, "How will this benefit Russia?"

Everything he does becomes more understandable when you frame it that way.

 

[zoogs]

No way, man. Trump is AMERICA first. He even said so!

 

[TGHusker]

I could also see it as Trump wanting his ego stroked by those that criticize him the most. If he fails to go through his campaign promise and back out of the Paris Agreement, he won't really loose any support from his base. That base is really going to back him no matter what he does. He would get a nice bump of good PR if he chose to stick with the Paris agreement. People who have been critical of him on policy would then say he is making the right decision. Thus getting his ego stroked giving him a nice warm fuzzy feeling.

I think you are right about the ego boosting angle also. However, it will back fire like the Comey firing did. He thought the Dems and Repubs would both like it for their various polar opposite reasons. If he comes out in favor of the Paris accord, he will be seen as a man who can't be trusted (yet another time) and one who caves to public pressure (going opposite of his previously stated goals on the issue), and finally a very shallow politician who didn't understand the accord as a candidate. Basically reinforcing about everything many believe about him already.

 

[TGHusker]

Whenever Trump does something, ask yourself, "How will this benefit Russia?"

Everything he does becomes more understandable when you frame it that way.

So Knapp (or anyone else) take us down the 2 divergent paths with your view on how this would play out in Russia's favor:

(1) If Trump approves the accord - how does that benefit Russia - who hasn't signed it?

(2) If Trump pulls out - how does that benefit Russia?

My quick takes: (1) Gives Russia a competitive edge short term on old energy tech - fossil fuels. As we cut back, Russia exploits the pull back and gains more market share for the one economic sector their country has to compete in.

(2) If we pull out, we (a) join Russia in a energy partnership, (b) give credibility to their refusal to sign the accord or © maybe the European nations see the cause as hopeless (carbon reduction) and begin to buy more an more of their fossil fuels from Russia.

 

[Danny Bateman]

Whenever Trump does something, ask yourself, "How will this benefit Russia?"

Everything he does becomes more understandable when you frame it that way.

So Knapp (or anyone else) take us down the 2 divergent paths with your view on how this would play out in Russia's favor: (1) If Trump approves the accord - how does that benefit Russia - who hasn't signed it?

(2) If Trump pulls out - how does that benefit Russia?

My quick takes: (1) Gives Russia a competitive edge short term on old energy tech - fossil fuels. As we cut back, Russia exploits the pull back and gains more market share for the one economic sector their country has to compete in.

(2) If we pull out, we (a) join Russia in a energy partnership, (b) give credibility to their refusal to sign the accord or © maybe the European nations see the cause as hopeless (carbon reduction) and begin to buy more an more of their fossil fuels from Russia.

The vast majority of the civilized world sees Trump as a joke. He's literally a punchline to most of them.
Russia would win simply by the merits of this sowing further discord between the Europe and the West, who have stood together against Russia since the Cold War. They don't actually need to check other boxes; sometimes chaos and strife is their endgame.

I view this decision like I view this any of his moves from his business career. It's essentially another bankrupted casino or Trump University. He makes poor decisions because he's impulsive, short-sighted and thinks he knows what he doesn't know.

He hasn't thought out his agenda at all. At this point, the plan is to just stick it to Obama or anyone else who challenged his greatness. I see this as a problem for the broader GOP as well.

 

[knapplc]

Pulling out of the Paris agreement further marginalizes America. It will not in any way benefit us, and will further anger our allies and trade partners. A marginalized America benefits Russia.

Here's the Trump talking point on this. It makes no sense and provides no evidence to support the decision, and it goes contrary to the statement Trump undersigned in 2009.

Why would 2009 Trump urge Congress & Obama to agree to climate change legislation in 2009 as a private citizen, but now that he's in office it's a "BAD deal?"

The Paris Accord is a BAD deal for Americans, and the President’s action today is keeping his campaign promise to put American workers first. The Accord was negotiated poorly by the Obama Administration and signed out of desperation. It frontloads costs on the American people to the detriment of our economy and job growth while extracting meaningless commitments from the world’s top global emitters, like China. The U.S. is already leading the world in energy production and doesn’t need a bad deal that will harm American workers.

 

[Nebfanatic]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/335886-gop-rep-on-climate-change-god-will-take-care-of-it

Rep. Tim Walberg (R-Mich.) told constituents last week that he believes if climate change is a real problem, God can fix it.

I believe theres climate change, Walberg said at a town hall last Friday in Coldwater, Mich., according to the Huffington Post, which obtained video of the exchange.

I believe theres been climate change since the beginning of time. I think there are cycles. Do I think that man has some impact? Yeah, of course. Can man change the entire universe? No.

Why do I believe that? Well, as a Christian, I believe that there is a creator in God who is much bigger than us. And Im confident that, if theres a real problem, he can take care of it.

xkcd comes to mind:

I've personally met Christians who say the same thing. That God will take care of it. This ignores the fact there are dozens of verses about humans taking care of the earth and its creatures.
Also, has he read revelation?

Last but not least, since when does God make sure nothing bad happens?

Revelation is so interesting because certain characteristics almost point to climate change as a big indicator. In the last days it will literally be hot as hell and who's to say that a completely depleted ozone layer doesn't cause that to happen? I don't understand people who think science and religion are mutually exclusive.

 

[knapplc]

[No message]

 

[knapplc]

Pulling out of the Paris agreement further marginalizes America. It will not in any way benefit us, and will further anger our allies and trade partners. A marginalized America benefits Russia.

Here's the Trump talking point on this. It makes no sense and provides no evidence to support the decision, and it goes contrary to the statement Trump undersigned in 2009.

Why would 2009 Trump urge Congress & Obama to agree to climate change legislation in 2009 as a private citizen, but now that he's in office it's a "BAD deal?"

The Paris Accord is a BAD deal for Americans, and the President’s action today is keeping his campaign promise to put American workers first. The Accord was negotiated poorly by the Obama Administration and signed out of desperation. It frontloads costs on the American people to the detriment of our economy and job growth while extracting meaningless commitments from the world’s top global emitters, like China. The U.S. is already leading the world in energy production and doesn’t need a bad deal that will harm American workers.

To expand on this, the Coal Industry employs 77,000 people. That's a pittance and absolutely not relevant to America's needs.

The entire coal industry employs fewer people than Arby’s

“My action today is the latest in a series of steps to create American jobs and to grow American wealth,” President Trump said earlier this week before a group of coal miners.

Trump was announcing the rollback of several Obama-era environmental regulations that would have affected industries such as coal mining. Trump has repeatedly claimed that over-regulation has led to a decline in coal-industry jobs.

“I made them this promise,” Trump said at the signing. “We will put our miners back to work.”

Experts in the industry have already pointed out, repeatedly, that the coal jobs are extremely unlikely to come back. The plight of the coal industry is more a function of changing energy markets and increased demand for natural gas than anything else.

Looking at the level of individual businesses, the coal industry in 2014 (76,572) employed about as many as Whole Foods (72,650), and fewer workers than Arby's (close to 80,000), Dollar General (105,000) or J.C. Penney (114,000). The country's largest private employer, Walmart (2.2 million employees) provides roughly 28 times as many jobs as coal.

Bluntly, this move makes zero economic sense, harms the environment, and will NOT benefit America, short- or long-term.