The Republican Utopia

Fru said:
BIGREDIOWAN said:
This is why I don't like one party being completely in control of anything.................good lord.
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...didn't you vote for this?
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This comment right here is the perfect example of what is wrong with this part of the board. Knapp, take note as we discussed this before.

Yes, I voted for Trump, I did not vote for republican control of every facet of our government. To assume I'm okay with this is an unfair assumption and pretty juvenile to say the least. Personally, I prefer to not have our government or our courts to lean conversative or liberal and this is a perfect example of that. DO NOT start trying to point the finger at me for this.

 
knapplc said:
Elections have consequences. You own your vote.

I mean, we warned you about Trump. Over and over and over and over. And you voted for him anyway.

Don't play the victim now.
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Really dude? So blaming me for something like this is okay? Don't fall of your high horse............

 
Are you saying you share zero blame? He said he was going to do these things, you voted for him, and he's doing them.

What the hell, man?

DO NOT start trying to point the finger at me for this.
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Serious question. The things Trump is doing were all on his platform. He discussed them many times, in the debates, in his stump speeches, in interviews, everywhere. We knew before the election that this is what he intended to do.

Who, then, should bear responsibility for Trump when he does the things he told you he was going to do? And if it isn't the people who voted for him, WHY NOT!?!?!????

 
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BRI - I enjoy your posting and from what I can tell, you are a good egg. However, Knapplc is spot on. None of this was unforeseen in the GOP Primary & National election. This is the consequence of voting for Trump as POTUS and/or GOP Congressional candidates. You may not have intended it, but Trump/GOP were pretty clear this is the road down which they wanted to travel. Calling that out is important.

EDIT: I don't view this as blaming BRI and I hope BRI does not as well. I view it as group therapy of voting decisions and action/consequence analysis. BRI generally tries to maintain constructive dialogue on difficult topics. I hope this is not taken as blame storming...

 
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BIGREDIOWAN said:
Fru said:
BIGREDIOWAN said:
This is why I don't like one party being completely in control of anything.................good lord.
default_facepalm.gif
Click to expand...
...didn't you vote for this?
Click to expand...
This comment right here is the perfect example of what is wrong with this part of the board. Knapp, take note as we discussed this before.

Yes, I voted for Trump, I did not vote for republican control of every facet of our government. To assume I'm okay with this is an unfair assumption and pretty juvenile to say the least. Personally, I prefer to not have our government or our courts to lean conversative or liberal and this is a perfect example of that. DO NOT start trying to point the finger at me for this.
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I think that voting for Trump actually is a vote for control. He and the GOP are known entities. You voted for him and on day 5 you're already lamenting the agenda he and the GOP are pursuing? What did you think was going to happen?

 
I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 (granted, I was a kid so it mattered even less). I think the question ("Given this, how come you voted for that?") is less about pointing fingers and more about deciding at what point you reach "I've changed my mind about my vote." It's fine to do so -- it's part of the informative process that guides our future decisions.

 
I'm a little torn on the blaming the voter for every action the person they voted for makes. Nobody should agree completely with the people they vote for and BRI clearly didn't. He stands apart from the people on my FB who are still drooling over every word Trump says and everything he does.

When rational people vote they hope the person does enough of what they support and not too many things they're against. It's impossible to predict that balance.

If there are enough like BRI they can vote differently in 2018 and 2020. Blaming them isn't a good idea. He's more to blame than someone who didn't vote Trump but Trump's every decision doesn't fall in line with every single person who voted for him.

 
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zoogs said:
I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 (granted, I was a kid so it mattered even less). I think the question ("Given this, how come you voted for that?") is less about pointing fingers and more about deciding at what point you reach "I've changed my mind about my vote." It's fine to do so -- it's part of the informative process that guides our future decisions.
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Exactly. If you regret voting for a candidate you should acknowledge that you made a mistake, learn from it, and move on. What I'm more concerned about are Trump voters that have major misgivings about what he is doing but continue to support him/defend their vote because they are unwilling to admit that they made a mistake.

 
"Blame" is a harsh word. What are we going to do, haul BRI up in front of a tribunal and shine spotlights in his face?

The biggest thing I want those who voted for Trump to do is... not do it again. That's the end of the recrimination. We're not naming names, we're not blaming you. Just don't vote for that kind of candidate ever again. It looks like, from the last couple of days, BRI has swung around. I'm super happy with that.

I don't super appreciate being called out like that, especially when I wasn't part of that conversation, but what I've written above is the extent of that.

 
It's day 5 of a 1,460 day term. It's a little early to start getting out the pitchforks and going after people who voted for him.

Right now, I don't like what I'm seeing. But, none of us know how this is going to turn out. I'm very skeptical right now....but......

 
BigRedBuster said:
It's day 5 of a 1,460 day term. It's a little early to start getting out the pitchforks and going after people who voted for him.

Right now, I don't like what I'm seeing. But, none of us know how this is going to turn out. I'm very skeptical right now....but......
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I'm basically seeing it the complete opposite as you. It's ONLY day 5 and he's already shown his intentions to do more harm than anyone ever should in all 8 years of their 2 terms.
I think people are underestimating how harmful his comments on the illegal voting and media are. Just because you are smart and reasonable doesn't mean there aren't thousands/millions believing it all.

 
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I'm with zoogs. If someone is still unabashedly behind or supportive of their choice in the face of all this (dewiz, for example), then that deserves calling out. I haven't seen BRI comment much about his feelings in hindsight now, other than to say he doesn't support ______. The argument is that he voted for that - so lets have an open conversation about whether he agrees or disagrees that he voted for the thing he is saying he doesn't support, and why.

For example, I don't support killing innocent civilians in drone strikes. But I supported Obama. Is that a contradiction?

 
Yes, blame is the wrong way to go. I firmly believe that.

Pointing out conflicts between different positions and seeing how people choose to settle them -- that, I think, is an important exercise. The value in posing the question is giving people an opportunity to go one way or another; to double back down and find the supporting arguments that go with that, or to re-evaluate their criteria.

Drones is a good example. I don't support that either. However, I'd say it has not been the most prominent, dealbreaking issue to me, and I invite all the criticism that comes with such a stance. I'd also argue that we haven't had an alternative other than continued pressure, and that Obama of all people probably has one of the more moderate set of instincts when it comes to the war on terror. Maybe I'm wrong.

 
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