The Republican Utopia

PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
I make good money and literally have had nothing to do for months at a time at work. This notion that people earned that much money by just working harder only exists in the imagination of people who want it to be true. I don't want more money for me. Even if you want to say they work harder there is no way these CEOs are working millions of dollars harder than some construction worker or mechanic or welder.

Elon has billions of dollars and has the time to make up fake government agencies and tweet 200 times a day and visit the border pretending to be a cowboy. I'm sure his job is real hard. 
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While I get what you are saying, I think you are using the word "harder" more literally.

It is like saying "knowledge is power", which I tell my students all the time.  Then I tell them that "power can mean many different things, like it can mean opportunity, the more knowledge you have the more doors will open up for you"

Working "harder" does not ONLY mean putting in more hours or physically straining yourself while at work.  It can mean many different things.  

Now, I totally agree that digging ditches or pouring concrete is physically harder work...compared to say, being a doctor or lawyer.  

I have a friend that makes good money and has a lot of education, his father in law had no education and worked "hard" to make a lot of money but his father in law could not write a paper, which is also "hard" work.  

Also, if you do not want more money you should be sure to turn down any raises and/or bonuses...you don't want to end up being a hypocrite, right?  :)

 
teachercd said:
While I get what you are saying, I think you are using the word "harder" more literally.

It is like saying "knowledge is power", which I tell my students all the time.  Then I tell them that "power can mean many different things, like it can mean opportunity, the more knowledge you have the more doors will open up for you"

Working "harder" does not ONLY mean putting in more hours or physically straining yourself while at work.  It can mean many different things.  

Now, I totally agree that digging ditches or pouring concrete is physically harder work...compared to say, being a doctor or lawyer.  

I have a friend that makes good money and has a lot of education, his father in law had no education and worked "hard" to make a lot of money but his father in law could not write a paper, which is also "hard" work.  

Also, if you do not want more money you should be sure to turn down any raises and/or bonuses...you don't want to end up being a hypocrite, right?  :)
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Why would I be a hypocrite if I got a raise? 

 
PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
You know what a strawman is right? 
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Was it you, acting like you don't know what "working harder" means and then also posting that you don't want more money and then when you were called out on it, you kind of got upset because you do in fact want more money and you do know what working harder means?

Just post what you really mean.  You know you want more money.  We all do.  You totally know what working harder means, we all do.  

Just make it easy.  

With that said, you would only be a hypocrite if you accepted the raise, not if you were offered a raise.   

 
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teachercd said:
Was it you, acting like you don't know what "working harder" means and then also posting that you don't want more money and then when you were called out on it, you kind of got upset because you do in fact want more money and you do know what working harder means?

Just post what you really mean.  You know you want more money.  We all do.  You totally know what working harder means, we all do.  

Just make it easy.  
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Show me where I said I don't want more money or that I got upset about anything. Now if I said all this stuff and then voted against tax increases to fund social programs then fine call me a hypocrite.

Everyone is going to have a different definition of what harder is in regards to working but it takes being purposefully blind to think that our current setup is just the richest people worked the hardest and earned that money. I even said in my original post that if you want to say those people are working harder that's fine but thinking they work hard enough to justify the millions of dollars difference is just crazy. The income disparity in this country is growing at an alarming rate because having money just makes money. You know that. We need social safety nets and no one has earned a billion dollars more than a normal working person.

 
PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
I make good money and literally have had nothing to do for months at a time at work. This notion that people earned that much money by just working harder only exists in the imagination of people who want it to be true. I don't want more money for me. Even if you want to say they work harder there is no way these CEOs are working millions of dollars harder than some construction worker or mechanic or welder.

Elon has billions of dollars and has the time to make up fake government agencies and tweet 200 times a day and visit the border pretending to be a cowboy. I'm sure his job is real hard. 
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There you go!

 
PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
Show me where I said I don't want more money or that I got upset about anything. Now if I said all this stuff and then voted against tax increases to fund social programs then fine call me a hypocrite.

Everyone is going to have a different definition of what harder is in regards to working but it takes being purposefully blind to think that our current setup is just the richest people worked the hardest and earned that money. I even said in my original post that if you want to say those people are working harder that's fine but thinking they work hard enough to justify the millions of dollars difference is just crazy. The income disparity in this country is growing at an alarming rate because having money just makes money. You know that. We need social safety nets and no one has earned a billion dollars more than a normal working person.
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Is your social safety net that people CAN'T make a lot of money?  That there should be some sort of cap on how much a person can make?

Or do you mean more that the net should be at the "bottom" so that people, all people, make/earn some sort of wage that will help them live a comfortable life?

 
teachercd said:
There you go!
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Lol I meant from the government. Its always a strawman of the right to act like anyone that wants social programs is just a broke kid who wants a handout from people who earned it. 

teachercd said:
Is your social safety net that people CAN'T make a lot of money?  That there should be some sort of cap on how much a person can make?

Or do you mean more that the net should be at the "bottom" so that people, all people, make/earn some sort of wage that will help them live a comfortable life?
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Bottom ideally but there would be less people at the top naturally if the government actually did their job and prevented so much exploitation. You can see very clearly that wages have remained stagnant while cost of living has greatly increased since a certain jelly bean eating president. There's been a long term propaganda campaign to tell people that if everyone can earn a living wage that people will have to pay more for goods. That same group has claimed that if you tax the richest people proportionally that it will just make everything more expensive also. 

 
PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
Lol I meant from the government. Its always a strawman of the right to act like anyone that wants social programs is just a broke kid who wants a handout from people who earned it. 

Bottom ideally but there would be less people at the top naturally if the government actually did their job and prevented so much exploitation. You can see very clearly that wages have remained stagnant while cost of living has greatly increased since a certain jelly bean eating president. There's been a long term propaganda campaign to tell people that if everyone can earn a living wage that people will have to pay more for goods. That same group has claimed that if you tax the richest people proportionally that it will just make everything more expensive also. 
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I gotta be honest, I have no idea what strawman means, seems like something people say when they said something dumb.  Now, with that said, you corrected yourself about the money thing, so that is good.

Anyway, aren't wages higher than ever right now?

What would you like minimum to be set at?  Do you have a # in mind?  

I personally think that there should be TWO minimum wages.

1.  You are a teen, you live at home, your parents basically provide for everything and you have your typical part time gig for some extra cash.  15-20 dollars an hour, period.

2.  You are on your own, you don't have anyone helping you, regardless of your age.  25-30 dollars an hour with 0% tax paid on 25% of your paycheck.

 
teachercd said:
I gotta be honest, I have no idea what strawman means, seems like something people say when they said something dumb.  Now, with that said, you corrected yourself about the money thing, so that is good.

Anyway, aren't wages higher than ever right now?

What would you like minimum to be set at?  Do you have a # in mind?  

I personally think that there should be TWO minimum wages.

1.  You are a teen, you live at home, your parents basically provide for everything and you have your typical part time gig for some extra cash.  15-20 dollars an hour, period.

2.  You are on your own, you don't have anyone helping you, regardless of your age.  25-30 dollars an hour with 0% tax paid on 25% of your paycheck.
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Wages are always going to be higher because of inflation. But they have not kept up with inflation. Obviously to someone in the 50s making $10 an hour would be huge money but that's not even a livable wage in a lot of places.

I would completely agree with a tiered wage system like that and those numbers don't sound off to me. Benefits need to be included also if we refuse to provide universal health care. One hospital trip can bankrupt some for life. It would take a lot of thought and actual smart people years of planning to keep up with stuff like that. Unfortunately that's not an option we get to pick. Our last president barely knew where he was and the president elect I doubt has higher than an 8th grade reading level. 

Strawman is when someone makes up your side of an argument or a point you are trying to make so they have something easier to debate against. I'm not trying to be snarky and I don't think me and you are that far off. This debate is always just frustrating. If you don't have money and you ask for a more fair system then you are whining. If you do have money then you are a hypocrite. 

 
PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
Wages are always going to be higher because of inflation. But they have not kept up with inflation. Obviously to someone in the 50s making $10 an hour would be huge money but that's not even a livable wage in a lot of places.

I would completely agree with a tiered wage system like that and those numbers don't sound off to me. Benefits need to be included also if we refuse to provide universal health care. One hospital trip can bankrupt some for life. It would take a lot of thought and actual smart people years of planning to keep up with stuff like that. Unfortunately that's not an option we get to pick. Our last president barely knew where he was and the president elect I doubt has higher than an 8th grade reading level. 

Strawman is when someone makes up your side of an argument or a point you are trying to make so they have something easier to debate against. I'm not trying to be snarky and I don't think me and you are that far off. This debate is always just frustrating. If you don't have money and you ask for a more fair system then you are whining. If you do have money then you are a hypocrite. 
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Got it!

I think to make things simple you just have to realize that we are all hypocrites.  When you start from there, the rest is easy.

I know others will think it sounds insane but a tiered system makes the most sense.

Someone that is their own dependent SHOULD get more.  16 year old Timmy that lives at home with him parents doesn't need 25 to 30 an hour.

But 25 year old Tim, who works to provide for himself and works at a Target SHOULD start at 25 an hour.  The benefits part is also a good idea, I did not think about that.  

 
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