The "We Aren't Playing Our Best Players" Thread...

[bshirt]

Turner's lack of playing time has definately been a disapointment - and will go down in history as one of the most bizzarre/mysterious Husker stories to come out of the Pelini era, guarenteed. The kid started out on on fire, and was in a position to get much better. Look at Martinez's transformation over the last 6 games - it's not unreasonable to think Turner would have kept pace. He was a freshman, his improvement was going to be drastic. And the sad thing is, not only has Turner's freshman year been a bust, but it's also going to dramatically impact his sophomore year. Think where he could have been. He'd be sitting at 600+ yards (and that's probably conservative). Yet Bell continues to f-up and he's out there every day. Playbook? BS. Turner's a smart kid - and you can't tell me that almost 4 months into the season he hasn't been able to grasp 20 plays. Does he need to know all 200 make an impact - hell no. He needs to be on the field - find a way Bo. I really feel for the kid. This offseason will test his character. At this point (barring an injury) he's sitting back there starting to believe there is nothing he can do see the field. Those thoughts have to be crossing his mind, he's only a kid.

Prime example. Reed can't block. Staff knows it, fans know it and opposing DC's know it, but guess what. He is in there on certain plays that do not require a great deal of blocking. IMO, it hurts the play calling as we telegraph our plays. It also shows that this staff is willing, in certain instances, to go with a limited play book option for some players.

I fear JT might become the Marcus Mendoza of this class. MOved from QB to WR and then lost.

I side with Bo on this issue but the Reed scenario sure does seem strange. The kid is just a horrendous blocker but he's still on the field getting run over.

Bell & Turner simply are too tiny to block "anybody" and yet Bell still plays (and drops balls everywhere). I wonder what ratio Bo uses for playing with the game vs practice results? Or maybe only practice counts?

Even with all that our biggest problem is both lines. We're hurting campers there.

 

[Hunter94]

Turner's lack of playing time has definately been a disapointment - and will go down in history as one of the most bizzarre/mysterious Husker stories to come out of the Pelini era, guarenteed. The kid started out on on fire, and was in a position to get much better. Look at Martinez's transformation over the last 6 games - it's not unreasonable to think Turner would have kept pace. He was a freshman, his improvement was going to be drastic. And the sad thing is, not only has Turner's freshman year been a bust, but it's also going to dramatically impact his sophomore year. Think where he could have been. He'd be sitting at 600+ yards (and that's probably conservative). Yet Bell continues to f-up and he's out there every day. Playbook? BS. Turner's a smart kid - and you can't tell me that almost 4 months into the season he hasn't been able to grasp 20 plays. Does he need to know all 200 make an impact - hell no. He needs to be on the field - find a way Bo. I really feel for the kid. This offseason will test his character. At this point (barring an injury) he's sitting back there starting to believe there is nothing he can do see the field. Those thoughts have to be crossing his mind, he's only a kid.

good post and good rational......Pelini gets the dogass on this one.....no excuse, none.

 

[Hunter94]

This staff loves to use the "practice" excuse. Which I think is short sighted and, rather dumb. The world ain't fair. Some people are simply gamers. (and yes, on this topic I agree with Allen Iverson, "practice? practice? it's not a game, it's practice."

If the playbooks are so complicated that talented guys can't get on the field, well, if you are 11-0 and challenging for a NC, then that theory is working for you.

If you are 8-3 and losing bad and winning ugly, perhaps there is room to rethink that philosophy.

exactly, another dogass hung on Pelini.

 

[Enhance]

This is probably a really bad example, but it's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Allen Iverson was a notoriously bad practicer (if he even showed up to practice), but a perennial all-star and MVP canidate. For some guys the focus kicks up that much more in game time, it's not even a conscious thing with most, they're not trying to be poor in practice, it's just the way some are wired. I think that's one of the most difficult aspects of coaching, where do you draw the line with players about earning their playing time, because each player is so different in how their practice correlates to their game performance.

That's actually a pretty good example. But, as Devil's Advocate again, is the "Iverson" player an exception or one that populates teams all over the place to a significant degree? I don't know the answer to that question. But I find it hard to believe that half our team sucks in practice and would do a lot better in a game, which seems to be a common reason as to why these guys aren't playing (not saying that you believe this, of course).

And I still come back to Bo's philosophy, whether we think it's right or wrong. Do we criticize Bo for taking practice to seriously, or criticize his players for not taking practice seriously enough? I believe the want to is there - you talk to any of these players and you get that feeling. I don't think practice performance is as big of an issue as getting players focused is.

 

[Hunter94]

The overwhelming question is - do you trust the coaches?

I am inclined to trust the coaches. They are there at practice every day, after all.

However. That trust is eroding in the face of multiple meltdown games each of the four years Bo's been here. That trust is not guaranteed, nor is it logical to give it to the coaches unconditionally in the face of these results.

it would seem there is quite a bit of skepticism here among many of us as to what the coaches are doing...............right or wrong, we sense something is not right with the coaching philosophy and production and development of the kids......i suspect many of the players are disappointed as well......this coaching staff is suspect and it begins and ends with Pelini.....his pressers and answers ring hollow for me, he seems removed from responsibility for the losses, i don't like the "feel" of where we are and the direction of this program......sure, i am just a fan, but i don't like what i see.

 

[Stickney]

This is probably a really bad example, but it's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Allen Iverson was a notoriously bad practicer (if he even showed up to practice), but a perennial all-star and MVP canidate. For some guys the focus kicks up that much more in game time, it's not even a conscious thing with most, they're not trying to be poor in practice, it's just the way some are wired. I think that's one of the most difficult aspects of coaching, where do you draw the line with players about earning their playing time, because each player is so different in how their practice correlates to their game performance.

That's actually a pretty good example. But, as Devil's Advocate again, is the "Iverson" player an exception or one that populates teams all over the place to a significant degree? I don't know the answer to that question. But I find it hard to believe that half our team sucks in practice and would do a lot better in a game, which seems to be a common reason as to why these guys aren't playing (not saying that you believe this, of course).

And I still come back to Bo's philosophy, whether we think it's right or wrong. Do we criticize Bo for taking practice to seriously, or criticize his players for not taking practice seriously enough? I believe the want to is there - you talk to any of these players and you get that feeling. I don't think practice performance is as big of an issue as getting players focused is.

Understood.

As fans we don't see practice. What we see is games and we are left scratching our heads because some guys make one mistake and dissappear (Tyler Moore) and others can routinely muck up and never get punished.

From the outside Bo seems inconsistent in player management.

At any rate, I think it is fair to ask why burn Turner's, Heard's, Moore's redshirts and then not play them (Turner was the leading receiver prior to being benched).

 

[Hunter94]

This is probably a really bad example, but it's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Allen Iverson was a notoriously bad practicer (if he even showed up to practice), but a perennial all-star and MVP canidate. For some guys the focus kicks up that much more in game time, it's not even a conscious thing with most, they're not trying to be poor in practice, it's just the way some are wired. I think that's one of the most difficult aspects of coaching, where do you draw the line with players about earning their playing time, because each player is so different in how their practice correlates to their game performance.

That's actually a pretty good example. But, as Devil's Advocate again, is the "Iverson" player an exception or one that populates teams all over the place to a significant degree? I don't know the answer to that question. But I find it hard to believe that half our team sucks in practice and would do a lot better in a game, which seems to be a common reason as to why these guys aren't playing (not saying that you believe this, of course).

And I still come back to Bo's philosophy, whether we think it's right or wrong. Do we criticize Bo for taking practice to seriously, or criticize his players for not taking practice seriously enough? I believe the want to is there - you talk to any of these players and you get that feeling. I don't think practice performance is as big of an issue as getting players focused is.

Understood.

As fans we don't see practice. What we see is games and we are left scratching our heads because some guys make one mistake and dissappear (Tyler Moore) and others can routinely muck up and never get punished.

From the outside Bo seems inconsistent in player management.

At any rate, I think it is fair to ask why burn Turner's, Heard's, Moore's redshirts and then not play them (Turner was the leading receiver prior to being benched).

good question for Pelini at a presser.......i can just imagine the costic response he would provide

 

[knapplc]

Likely you would get the answer Bo just gave regarding not playing Carnes:

kevinkugler Kevin Kugler

When asked about Carnes and why he didn't play when down big, Pelini says "That's what we choose to do....we run the football team."

Which was followed up by:

helloerinmarie Erin Sorensen

That one made me uncomfortable.

 

[zoogs]

Also, it is fairly convenient to just, off-the-cuff, say someone was injured after the fact as an excuse for why the player was not playing. I can understand this in a case or two, but not as much as we have seen. I don't buy it. If Courtney Osborne is injured and has been all year, he should not be suiting up and travelling and taking up a travel spot.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Not to mention, Courtney's been seen several times this season on ST coverage. I don't remember the most recent time because I haven't paid attention to that, but I think that would also rule out Courtney for any medical redshirt.

I can only imagine it's because special teams coverage is well known to carry a really low injury risk, being the reason why Courtney plays there but doesn't see a snap at safety.

Does anybody remember Bo saying Jamal was sick, before all this stuff about him not practicing hard enough came out?

The funny thing is, most fans would probably trust in Bo if he came out and said, "you know, Player X is going through a disciplinary issue right now, it's a team matter and we won't discuss it."

And oh man, Carnes. I think it is starting to become fairly evident now that something weird is going on with the QB situation. Just what is anybody's guess.

 

[beanman]

The overwhelming question is - do you trust the coaches?

I am inclined to trust the coaches. They are there at practice every day, after all.

However. That trust is eroding in the face of multiple meltdown games each of the four years Bo's been here. That trust is not guaranteed, nor is it logical to give it to the coaches unconditionally in the face of these results.

Knapp, you just got your very first +1 from Beanman. I may have a mancrush on you. You stated it perfectly IMO

 

[knapplc]

Hah! Thanks, Bean. It's some solace after this crappy weekend. :thumbs

You want to hear something weird? I think I'm more upset about this loss today than I was Saturday. The longer I think about it, the less sense I make of it. And Bo's presser was ridiculous, IMVHO.

 

[3rd and long]

This is probably a really bad example, but it's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Allen Iverson was a notoriously bad practicer (if he even showed up to practice), but a perennial all-star and MVP canidate. For some guys the focus kicks up that much more in game time, it's not even a conscious thing with most, they're not trying to be poor in practice, it's just the way some are wired. I think that's one of the most difficult aspects of coaching, where do you draw the line with players about earning their playing time, because each player is so different in how their practice correlates to their game performance.

That's actually a pretty good example. But, as Devil's Advocate again, is the "Iverson" player an exception or one that populates teams all over the place to a significant degree? I don't know the answer to that question. But I find it hard to believe that half our team sucks in practice and would do a lot better in a game, which seems to be a common reason as to why these guys aren't playing (not saying that you believe this, of course).

And I still come back to Bo's philosophy, whether we think it's right or wrong. Do we criticize Bo for taking practice to seriously, or criticize his players for not taking practice seriously enough? I believe the want to is there - you talk to any of these players and you get that feeling. I don't think practice performance is as big of an issue as getting players focused is.

I think it just shows that there really is no "correct" answer, we just don't know. The one single thing we do know however is that we are seeing guys not produce on the field, while others who "might" produce continue to sit on the sidelines and not get the opportunity.

 

[Enhance]

This is probably a really bad example, but it's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Allen Iverson was a notoriously bad practicer (if he even showed up to practice), but a perennial all-star and MVP canidate. For some guys the focus kicks up that much more in game time, it's not even a conscious thing with most, they're not trying to be poor in practice, it's just the way some are wired. I think that's one of the most difficult aspects of coaching, where do you draw the line with players about earning their playing time, because each player is so different in how their practice correlates to their game performance.

That's actually a pretty good example. But, as Devil's Advocate again, is the "Iverson" player an exception or one that populates teams all over the place to a significant degree? I don't know the answer to that question. But I find it hard to believe that half our team sucks in practice and would do a lot better in a game, which seems to be a common reason as to why these guys aren't playing (not saying that you believe this, of course).

And I still come back to Bo's philosophy, whether we think it's right or wrong. Do we criticize Bo for taking practice to seriously, or criticize his players for not taking practice seriously enough? I believe the want to is there - you talk to any of these players and you get that feeling. I don't think practice performance is as big of an issue as getting players focused is.

I think it just shows that there really is no "correct" answer, we just don't know. The one single thing we do know however is that we are seeing guys not produce on the field, while others who "might" produce continue to sit on the sidelines and not get the opportunity.

Exactly, which gets to the point of my frustrations. There are many fans who labor under the impression that Bo has no idea who should be a starter and who shouldn't be, which is completely idiotic in my mind. Coaches can make mistakes, but to suggest Bo has no idea how to evaluate talent...seems like a stretch for those who are indirectly eluding to this idea. It seems likely to me that Bo is struggling with solutions just like we are, and it's gotten to the point where he thinks he has found the few players who play most consistent. And if those are the players starting....yikes.

But more or less, it seems like these discussions come back to how "everybody loves the backup quarterback." Some are saying those backups deserve their shot, which I don't necessarily disagree with at this point. Unfortunately for Bo, it's his job to figure this mess out now.

 

[robsker]

This is probably a really bad example, but it's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Allen Iverson was a notoriously bad practicer (if he even showed up to practice), but a perennial all-star and MVP canidate. For some guys the focus kicks up that much more in game time, it's not even a conscious thing with most, they're not trying to be poor in practice, it's just the way some are wired. I think that's one of the most difficult aspects of coaching, where do you draw the line with players about earning their playing time, because each player is so different in how their practice correlates to their game performance.

That's actually a pretty good example. But, as Devil's Advocate again, is the "Iverson" player an exception or one that populates teams all over the place to a significant degree? I don't know the answer to that question. But I find it hard to believe that half our team sucks in practice and would do a lot better in a game, which seems to be a common reason as to why these guys aren't playing (not saying that you believe this, of course).

And I still come back to Bo's philosophy, whether we think it's right or wrong. Do we criticize Bo for taking practice to seriously, or criticize his players for not taking practice seriously enough? I believe the want to is there - you talk to any of these players and you get that feeling. I don't think practice performance is as big of an issue as getting players focused is.

I think it just shows that there really is no "correct" answer, we just don't know. The one single thing we do know however is that we are seeing guys not produce on the field, while others who "might" produce continue to sit on the sidelines and not get the opportunity.

Exactly, which gets to the point of my frustrations. There are many fans who labor under the impression that Bo has no idea who should be a starter and who shouldn't be, which is completely idiotic in my mind. Coaches can make mistakes, but to suggest Bo has no idea how to evaluate talent...seems like a stretch for those who are indirectly eluding to this idea. It seems likely to me that Bo is struggling with solutions just like we are, and it's gotten to the point where he thinks he has found the few players who play most consistent. And if those are the players starting....yikes.

But more or less, it seems like these discussions come back to how "everybody loves the backup quarterback." Some are saying those backups deserve their shot, which I don't necessarily disagree with at this point. Unfortunately for Bo, it's his job to figure this mess out now.

Point well taken. It is a tough job to do too. Bo has a difficult job lived out before all to see. That fish bowl is not an easy one to work in.

 

[Danny Bateman]

I too would like to know... Why the hell isn't Mike Nobler on the field!? Dude's only got so much eligibility... To me this is a bigger problem than Turner being on the bench.