Thinking about buying a piece.

[BigRedBuster]

The Judge....

You have the handiness of a pistol but the benefit of a shot gun load.

 

[Saunders]

Do you know if there's any shooting ranges in your area that rents guns? It's probably ideal to try some out before you purchase. The Glock for example, probably isn't a bad suggestion, but personally I think they're awkward as hell. I've never enjoyed shooting one. It comes down to personal preference.

Absolutely. Do not buy without trying. Take the above advice, and bring along someone who knows what they're doing. It will make all the difference.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

The Judge....

You have the handiness of a pistol but the benefit of a shot gun load.

I've never had the chance to shoot one of these to form an opinion on them, but I'd love to have the chance! How about a Desert Eagle, get one of those!

 

[wildman]

Rookies geesh. The ultimate home defense would be parking a M1 Abrams tank in your driveway. Little pricey I know. But when you add in robotics and motion detector sensors to move the turret with any near by movement. Plus a sign on the turret that says imagine what I have inside. No one would walk down your sidewalk again.

All kidding aside if your doing it for self defense a hand gun is the way to go as they are easy to conceal. Home defense shot guns as mentioned are a good choice. But let me through in the idea of an AR15. They are easy to use with very little recoil. Plus the customizable options are nearly limitless.

 

[jimk]

I been thinking about buying a piece too. That's why I clicked on this. But I was thinking about a different kind of piece.

 

[BigRedBuster]

The Judge....

You have the handiness of a pistol but the benefit of a shot gun load.

I've never had the chance to shoot one of these to form an opinion on them, but I'd love to have the chance! How about a Desert Eagle, get one of those!

I have friends who do a lot of camping and they keep one in their campers. One day we were shooting blue rocks and a guy pulled one out. We had a blast trying to hit blue rocks with it.

 

[HUSKER FREAK]

I have all sorts of self defense mechanisms in our house. I have my own handgun and a few others but the best ones are my Viszla and Great Dane that would love to rumble with any idiot that tried to come inside my home uninvited.

 

[HUSKER FREAK]

The Judge....

You have the handiness of a pistol but the benefit of a shot gun load.

I've never had the chance to shoot one of these to form an opinion on them, but I'd love to have the chance! How about a Desert Eagle, get one of those!

I have friends who do a lot of camping and they keep one in their campers. One day we were shooting blue rocks and a guy pulled one out. We had a blast trying to hit blue rocks with it.

Huh......I am now starting to wonder if I know you

 

[MidnightRider]

Personally, I would go with an AR platform first. Here's a good article on stopping power, or the myth thereof: http://m.policemag.com/article/2426/stopping-power-myths-legends-and-realities. I like this part:

Accurate hits in any reasonable caliber will "stop" a person if that person has experienced enough brain or spinal cord damage to interrupt regular neurologic impulses from reaching vital areas of the body or the person has hemorrhaged enough blood to lower his or her blood pressure where the brain no longer is able to function well. You can also stop a person if a major bone shatters after a bullet injures it, but does that stop the fight?

Its really all about what you're most comfortable firing. Once you've decided upon a particular gun, caliber etc. practice. A lot. You may also want to enroll in a shooting class or two. Just be sure the instructor is reputable before doing so.

It really all boils down to this though:

"Three P's"
-Placement
-Penetration
-Permanent wound cavity

If this will be for home defense (possible even CCW), you must ask yourself one very important question. Are you willing to end another human's life? Its really easy to say yes but I would do some serious introspection first. If it turns out that you can't pull the trigger in a SHTF moment, it is a very real possibility that the perpetrator will take your gun from you and kill you with it, if they are so inclined. Just some food for thought.

Good luck with your purchase. Careful though, they're kinda like Lay's potato chips.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

If you were to choose a AR I would tell you to look at some specialty rounds for it from Hornady. The big complaint with AR rifle rounds is that, "They'll go on forever and wah wah wah..........." No they won't and there are speciality rounds out there now that expend all their energy into the target they hit. They won't go through the target and keep going. I have some sweet material on the ballistics of some of these new rounds. One example was a SWAT team making entry into a house, dude has a gun, SWAT guy puts one well placed round into the head of bad guy. The round never left the guys head, it stayed in there and expended all of its energy once it made contact. From a ballistic standpoint that's awesome..................

 

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

Piece does not equal peace!

 

[wildman]

If you were to choose a AR I would tell you to look at some specialty rounds for it from Hornady. The big complaint with AR rifle rounds is that, "They'll go on forever and wah wah wah..........." No they won't and there are speciality rounds out there now that expend all their energy into the target they hit. They won't go through the target and keep going. I have some sweet material on the ballistics of some of these new rounds. One example was a SWAT team making entry into a house, dude has a gun, SWAT guy puts one well placed round into the head of bad guy. The round never left the guys head, it stayed in there and expended all of its energy once it made contact. From a ballistic standpoint that's awesome..................

do you know if the specialty rounds are 9mm or 5.56 standard round for the AR? I'd love to have an AR myself and if I did it'd want the 5.56 as thats what i'm use to with being in the army. But if those rounds are 9mm only. That might make that version a little more interesting.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

If you were to choose a AR I would tell you to look at some specialty rounds for it from Hornady. The big complaint with AR rifle rounds is that, "They'll go on forever and wah wah wah..........." No they won't and there are speciality rounds out there now that expend all their energy into the target they hit. They won't go through the target and keep going. I have some sweet material on the ballistics of some of these new rounds. One example was a SWAT team making entry into a house, dude has a gun, SWAT guy puts one well placed round into the head of bad guy. The round never left the guys head, it stayed in there and expended all of its energy once it made contact. From a ballistic standpoint that's awesome..................

do you know if the specialty rounds are 9mm or 5.56 standard round for the AR? I'd love to have an AR myself and if I did it'd want the 5.56 as thats what i'm use to with being in the army. But if those rounds are 9mm only. That might make that version a little more interesting.

As far as I know they come in 5.56 and 7.62 platform. The link below will give you all the info on their Hornady TAP line and the rifle rounds I'm talking about are the 40 grain Hornady TAP urban rounds. On page 52 of this link it shows you the x-rays of the bad guy who took one to the head from a 5.56 round and how that round stayed in his head and didn't go any further. Now this is a law enforcement and military line, but I'm sure just like anything they either offer a civilian version or it's possible you could get your hands on some, but I don't know that for sure. I kinda want some of our patrol officers to go to the urban rounds because of how they expand their energy so fast, which you can see in the ballistic testing in that link, so there is really no chance of a through and through and it hitting something else. There's always a chance of that, but it would be a lot smaller than with a 55 grain 5.56 federal round that is your "normal" 5.56 round as far as ballistics go. Sorry to nerd out on the ballistic stuff, but for some reason I find that really interesting. I'd rather know more about ballistics than all the different weapons out there. So for Hornady to come out with a round like this is impressive IMO. I took part in ballistic testing here in Iowa with them at our law enforcement academy. Really impressive stuff, but I couldn't get our Chief to agree to buy the stuff because it was a tad bit more expensive than what we currently use. The stuff we currently use is great stuff, but Hornady's line retained its weight better during testing which is huge.

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site/files/hornady_tap_report.pdf

 

[MidnightRider]

If you were to choose a AR I would tell you to look at some specialty rounds for it from Hornady. The big complaint with AR rifle rounds is that, "They'll go on forever and wah wah wah..........." No they won't and there are speciality rounds out there now that expend all their energy into the target they hit. They won't go through the target and keep going. I have some sweet material on the ballistics of some of these new rounds. One example was a SWAT team making entry into a house, dude has a gun, SWAT guy puts one well placed round into the head of bad guy. The round never left the guys head, it stayed in there and expended all of its energy once it made contact. From a ballistic standpoint that's awesome..................

do you know if the specialty rounds are 9mm or 5.56 standard round for the AR? I'd love to have an AR myself and if I did it'd want the 5.56 as thats what i'm use to with being in the army. But if those rounds are 9mm only. That might make that version a little more interesting.

As far as I know they come in 5.56 and 7.62 platform. The link below will give you all the info on their Hornady TAP line and the rifle rounds I'm talking about are the 40 grain Hornady TAP urban rounds. On page 52 of this link it shows you the x-rays of the bad guy who took one to the head from a 5.56 round and how that round stayed in his head and didn't go any further. Now this is a law enforcement and military line, but I'm sure just like anything they either offer a civilian version or it's possible you could get your hands on some, but I don't know that for sure. I kinda want some of our patrol officers to go to the urban rounds because of how they expand their energy so fast, which you can see in the ballistic testing in that link, so there is really no chance of a through and through and it hitting something else. There's always a chance of that, but it would be a lot smaller than with a 55 grain 5.56 federal round that is your "normal" 5.56 round as far as ballistics go. Sorry to nerd out on the ballistic stuff, but for some reason I find that really interesting. I'd rather know more about ballistics than all the different weapons out there. So for Hornady to come out with a round like this is impressive IMO. I took part in ballistic testing here in Iowa with them at our law enforcement academy. Really impressive stuff, but I couldn't get our Chief to agree to buy the stuff because it was a tad bit more expensive than what we currently use. The stuff we currently use is great stuff, but Hornady's line retained its weight better during testing which is huge.

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site/files/hornady_tap_report.pdf

Thank you for the info BIGREDIOWAN, I look forward to reading the report. I missed this release, completely. If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions; when you were testing the ammo, did you have any FTF due to the lighter weight of the projectile? Did you have to mod your mags in any way i.e. stiffer springs? I assume due to the lighter weight of the projectile that it would shed energy more quickly than a 55 gr round; what was the longest range at which you were you still shooting consistent 3 inch groups? Thanks, again.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

If you were to choose a AR I would tell you to look at some specialty rounds for it from Hornady. The big complaint with AR rifle rounds is that, "They'll go on forever and wah wah wah..........." No they won't and there are speciality rounds out there now that expend all their energy into the target they hit. They won't go through the target and keep going. I have some sweet material on the ballistics of some of these new rounds. One example was a SWAT team making entry into a house, dude has a gun, SWAT guy puts one well placed round into the head of bad guy. The round never left the guys head, it stayed in there and expended all of its energy once it made contact. From a ballistic standpoint that's awesome..................

do you know if the specialty rounds are 9mm or 5.56 standard round for the AR? I'd love to have an AR myself and if I did it'd want the 5.56 as thats what i'm use to with being in the army. But if those rounds are 9mm only. That might make that version a little more interesting.

As far as I know they come in 5.56 and 7.62 platform. The link below will give you all the info on their Hornady TAP line and the rifle rounds I'm talking about are the 40 grain Hornady TAP urban rounds. On page 52 of this link it shows you the x-rays of the bad guy who took one to the head from a 5.56 round and how that round stayed in his head and didn't go any further. Now this is a law enforcement and military line, but I'm sure just like anything they either offer a civilian version or it's possible you could get your hands on some, but I don't know that for sure. I kinda want some of our patrol officers to go to the urban rounds because of how they expand their energy so fast, which you can see in the ballistic testing in that link, so there is really no chance of a through and through and it hitting something else. There's always a chance of that, but it would be a lot smaller than with a 55 grain 5.56 federal round that is your "normal" 5.56 round as far as ballistics go. Sorry to nerd out on the ballistic stuff, but for some reason I find that really interesting. I'd rather know more about ballistics than all the different weapons out there. So for Hornady to come out with a round like this is impressive IMO. I took part in ballistic testing here in Iowa with them at our law enforcement academy. Really impressive stuff, but I couldn't get our Chief to agree to buy the stuff because it was a tad bit more expensive than what we currently use. The stuff we currently use is great stuff, but Hornady's line retained its weight better during testing which is huge.

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site/files/hornady_tap_report.pdf

Thank you for the info BIGREDIOWAN, I look forward to reading the report. I missed this release, completely. If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions; when you were testing the ammo, did you have any FTF due to the lighter weight of the projectile? Did you have to mod your mags in any way i.e. stiffer springs? I assume due to the lighter weight of the projectile that it would shed energy more quickly than a 55 gr round; what was the longest range at which you were you still shooting consistent 3 inch groups? Thanks, again.

I did not have any FTF that I can remember with my rifle. I did not mod my mags, but then again I don't load to 30, I was trained 28 is the max you load due to less of a chance of a double-feed that way. The AR platform is already finicky from time to time so there's no reason to make it worse right?

We were only firing at close range with this particular round, 25 yards or less into ballistic gelatin so we could see that even in CQB the projectile doesn't penetrate any further. The science and ballistics are there whether it's 15 feet or 300 meters. The testing I took part in basically took on the FBI ballistic testing that all law enforcement agencies go by when selecting their rounds. There's no way for a round to perform "better" or "above" those standards. They either meet them or they don't. Now the interesting part was how much weight their rounds kept after each stage of the test. It was better than the current "gold" standard of rounds that we carry on-duty which obviously effects the wound cavity which is only as important as shot placement.