This ones on Beck

[roundegotrip]

Chatty nailed it.

Just got done reading this, and yes, yes he did.

Bo Pelini and Tim Beck want to build an offense around Martinez? Fine. But stick to what the kid does well. Know what he doesn't. If you lose play-calling discipline for a few minutes, Martinez burns you.

That's what happened when Beck lost his patience, abandoned the run game and called 14 passes in a 15-play span.

 

[Eric the Red]

Martinez is the one who threw HORRIBLE picks. Our Receivers were open.

Shouldn't have been passing on 15 out of 17 plays in that stretch or whatever it was. Up 14-13 on the road? RUN. Easy call.

Def a little of both. Two things: I don't like the above stat at all 15 out of 17 plays are passes, but on a few of those plays there were open receivers.

 

[Enhance]

Chatty nailed it.

Just got done reading this, and yes, yes he did.

Bo Pelini and Tim Beck want to build an offense around Martinez? Fine. But stick to what the kid does well. Know what he doesn't. If you lose play-calling discipline for a few minutes, Martinez burns you.

That's what happened when Beck lost his patience, abandoned the run game and called 14 passes in a 15-play span.

Exactly my point, which is why I put this on Beck more than Martinez. Call plays that put Martinez in the position to win.

We have a set we saw for one play against UTC, where we had Martinez, Burkhead and then two of our freshman backs in the backfield. We haven't seen it since. That formation with those playmakers on the field is what we need as a change of pace, not Martinez in a standard pistol set dropping back on first down.

 

[Glendower]

Martinez is the one who threw HORRIBLE picks. Our Receivers were open.

His play calling still sucked. Burkhead disappeared in the first half. Then to start the 2nd half off with a pass. Come on. Let's show the world that our qb really can't pass.

Run the damn ball.

They are running it to end the 3rd qtr and have gained about 7 yds a carry.

Agreed the play calling was iffy, but if our QB can't execute our plays then maybe we need a new QB

But that's still on the coaches. You can't blame the player for doing what he's told (i.e. play), so I don't hate him or even blame him. He shouldn't have been throwing and no one should have told him to throw (not like that, anyway). I think that Martinez is a trooper-- he's taking a lot of abuse and blame and still getting up in the morning and continuing to do what he's told. But why is he being told to do those things? Is it his fault that he doesn't audible out of every pass play? Should he be sidelining himself in direct defiance of the coaching staff? Of course not.

 

[Enhance]

Question for those of you who want to put this on Martinez.

If a coach calls a pass heavy game plan for a quarterback who can't pass well, who is at fault? Do you blame a coach for asking his quarterback to be something he isn't, or do you blame the quarterback for being asked to execute a gameplan he can't execute?

If you truly think it's the player's fault, then your train of thought is corrupt in this argument.

We have had great running quarterbacks at this university, quarterbacks (and coaches) who understood roles and played to those strengths. We have a guy who has proven his strength is not passing, yet we're still trying to shove him into that hole. It's high-time we abandon this idea of balance. We need to run creatively, get playmakers the ball more efficiently (where is a reverse to Turner), and only use the pass efficiently. That means use the pass on play action, long conversion or when you need a quick change of pace. Not on three consecutive downs followed by a punt.

That's not what Martinez can do, and blaming him for a bad gameplan is just idiotic imho.

 

[gobiggergoredder]

You guys aren't recognizing the difference between PA and drop-back passing. Martinez excels in PA, option pass. As Hercules pointed out, it's not just the Beck abandoned the run, he abandoned PA along with it. Martinez is not a drop-back passer obviously, so having him drop-back 12/14 times is just silly. Complete abandonment of 1st Q game plan.

This where you lost me. He is better in play action (and not that much), but I wouldn't say he really excels at anything.

 

[bshirt]

Question for those of you who want to put this on Martinez.

If a coach calls a pass heavy game plan for a quarterback who can't pass well, who is at fault? Do you blame a coach for asking his quarterback to be something he isn't, or do you blame the quarterback for being asked to execute a gameplan he can't execute?

If you truly think it's the player's fault, then your train of thought is corrupt in this argument.

We have had great running quarterbacks at this university, quarterbacks (and coaches) who understood roles and played to those strengths. We have a guy who has proven his strength is not passing, yet we're still trying to shove him into that hole. It's high-time we abandon this idea of balance. We need to run creatively, get playmakers the ball more efficiently (where is a reverse to Turner), and only use the pass efficiently. That means use the pass on play action, long conversion or when you need a quick change of pace. Not on three consecutive downs followed by a punt.

That's not what Martinez can do, and blaming him for a bad gameplan is just idiotic imho.

Exactly.

How many times did Frazier, Frost or Crouch throw the ball 15 out of 17 plays? I gotta believe the answer is "never".

If we're gonna be the pirate's Texas Tech by all means bench Tmart as obviously he's not the answer for that offense. I seriously doubt Carnes is the answer for that kind of offense too but it's worth a try as Tmart most certainly is not.

Beck lost control of that game trying to react to our defensive total failure ("one" 3rd stop all game??). He hit the panic button and it was Clownahan days all over again.

 

[Scarlet Overkill]

"This one is on Beck"... yep, that's exactly what I said in my drunken stupor. He got greedy, went away from things that were working. Were they still "practicing things we weren't very good at" in this game?

Yeah, Martinez didn't execute, but Beck did not do him any favors at all by his play calling.

 

[Hercules]

I couldn't disagree more. There are so many weapons on offense. The 'Magic' is gone. When will everyone figure it out?

I like what Beck is doing and can't wait until he gets a QB.

Agree 100%. We cannot be a successful football team if our QB cant throw the football. Plain and simple.

Watch the first quarter. He can throw the football.

Then watch the second quarter/first play of the second half. We threw the ball 14 times out of 15 plays. Tim Beck decided that he was Steve Spurrier and he had Danny Wuerffel at QB.

That's not balanced offense. That's not what this offense should be. It's one thing to blame Martinez for not being able to pass well enough to run a balanced offense - but he did, we had a balanced offense that was humming in the first quarter. The problem is, Martinez can't pass well enough to run the fun-n-gun offense, and that's what why we fell apart.

The more distance I get from this game, the more blame I put on Tim Beck for the offensive performance... sadly, the defense was even worse, just no one even knows where to begin on that side of the ball.

Yes he threw the football well in the first quarter, and he threw the football well against Okie lite last year. But since he's been a starter, he hasn't thrown the ball well consistently. This year he's completed less than 50% of his passes. In Beck's offense, we cannot survive with a QB that can't complete half of his passes. We can't expect Beck to call plays on every 3rd and long that give Martinez a wide open receiver...No offense works that way. Beck called so many pass plays because our WRs were open. It's not crazy for Beck to expect Taylor to hit an open receiver. This game is on Taylor, not Beck.

I completely disagree. Everybody can keep hoping for Taylor Martinez to turn into a 70% passer, but that's simply not going to happen. Beck called a disciplined balanced first quarter against Wisconsin. Nebraska moved the football, and put two touchdowns on the board quickly. Then, with the score 14-13, Beck got pass-happy. There was no need to do that. None.

I don't care if some of the WRs were open - Wisconsin wasn't stopping our running game, and they were off balance. It was when we passed the ball on 14/15 plays in the second quarter that the game got away from us, and that's entirely on Beck. That's not balanced offense, that's the fun-n-gun. I don't care what Martinez does, that should not ever be our pass-run ratio when we have the lead or are down by only 6 points.

 

[Enhance]

Question for those of you who want to put this on Martinez.

If a coach calls a pass heavy game plan for a quarterback who can't pass well, who is at fault? Do you blame a coach for asking his quarterback to be something he isn't, or do you blame the quarterback for being asked to execute a gameplan he can't execute?

If you truly think it's the player's fault, then your train of thought is corrupt in this argument.

We have had great running quarterbacks at this university, quarterbacks (and coaches) who understood roles and played to those strengths. We have a guy who has proven his strength is not passing, yet we're still trying to shove him into that hole. It's high-time we abandon this idea of balance. We need to run creatively, get playmakers the ball more efficiently (where is a reverse to Turner), and only use the pass efficiently. That means use the pass on play action, long conversion or when you need a quick change of pace. Not on three consecutive downs followed by a punt.

That's not what Martinez can do, and blaming him for a bad gameplan is just idiotic imho.

Exactly.

How many times did Frazier, Frost or Crouch throw the ball 15 out of 17 plays? I gotta believe the answer is "never".

If we're gonna be the pirate's Texas Tech by all means bench Tmart as obviously he's not the answer for that offense. I seriously doubt Carnes is the answer for that kind of offense too but it's worth a try as Tmart most certainly is not.

Beck lost control of that game trying to react to our defensive total failure ("one" 3rd stop all game??). He hit the panic button and it was Clownahan days all over again.

Furthermore, I think there is room to bring more balance with Carnes if he shows to be a better passer when and if he starts in the following years. I believe you should tweak your offense to your players, but you should NEVER tweak your players to your offense. Right now it seems we have a lot of the latter going on.

 

[The Dude]

The game was a quagmire of piss and bullsh#t on both sides of the ball. Trying to pin the loss on one person is utterly futile.

 

[nepolo7]

Not calling for Beck's head, but very poor decisions to put Martinez in the situations he was in.

The team is still very young in the skill positions. They have to build from thisl.

 

[It'sNotAFakeID]

I see the perspective of the other side of the coin. I understand that. But we passed efficiently for the first 7 attempts, and that aided the running game because Wisconsin didn't know what we were going to throw at them so there was a lot of confusion on their end.

Fast forward a couple of plays when Taylor makes a horrible decision and throws it RIGHT AT Wisconsin's LB. He makes a better decision to not throw the ball or dump it to Burkhead or even throw it away, and that the game plan Beck had continues without an issue. Yeah, after that first INT we maybe should have settled down and ran it with Burkhead for a couple of plays, and if Wisconsin wanted to stack the box and stuff us, then let them and then air it out with Taylor. But Beck didn't do that. He decided to keep throwing the ball and then Taylor made ANOTHER BAD DECISION by throwing it into triple coverage instead of looking to the right and dumping it off to Burkhead, throwing it out of bounds, or running with the ball. He does anyone of those three, and the game plan Beck has continues.

The only thing I fault Beck for is coming out throwing to start the second half. At that point of time we needed to settle down and try to pound the ball at Wisconsin's D. But Beck didn't want that, he wanted to come out throwing maybe thinking that Wisconsin would anticipate a run; and then Taylor made ANOTHER BAD DECISION by throwing the ball on the run into a tight window instead of dumping the ball of to Burkhead who was RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. Those three turnovers and the subsequent lack of a secondary caused us to be put into a massive hole where solely running the football wasn't going to do jack sh#t for us. It altered Beck's game plan.

Towards the end of the game there was something to come away with and something that hopefully Beck and Co picked up on. Burkhead and the RB corps, along with the offensive line, makes it possible for us to run on just about anybody. Hopefully next week we can come out and run the ball 75% of the time and throw it 25% of the time. Limit the passes, limit Taylor's ability to make a bad decision. Those three turnovers are what cost us the game, and 2 if not all were all on Taylor

 

[It'sNotAFakeID]

The game was a quagmire of piss and bullsh#t on both sides of the ball. Trying to pin the loss on one person is utterly futile.

On that note, win as a team, lose as a team. By all means I'm not saying this was all Taylor's fault, the whole team, from coaches to players were just utterly outplayed by a much better side. ALL of them have to improve, and they will improve.

 

[walksalone]

Beck - Pulling a Clownahan/Watson and going away from what was working, not too mention not using any of the "kids" to spell Burkhead to keep our backfield fresh. More importantly, not being able to adjust when things weren't working.

T-mart - Poor decision making, especially the INT's. What happened to sliding?