This ought to rile up the anti-Dirk crowd:

[BoNeyard]

People also overlook that the big ten as a whole has gotten better as well.  Michigan, Iowa, Purdue, Penn st, Indiana, MN are all better than they were through much of bos tenure. NW, Illinois Mich St are probably level. Throw in the bottom feeders of Rutgers.  9 wins in the current big 10 is a far cry from the cake walk bos teams had to face.  We are going through some growing pains now but have no doubt SF is the right man.  

Good point. Also, Bo's teams were all built for Big 12 play, obvious since that is the conference he coached in prior to Big Ten, but it didn't look like he was adjusting the roster at all to prepare for the years coming up in the Big Ten. Reason why Wisconsin and Minnesota was able to over power his teams. 

That lack of adjusting to prepare for the Big Ten, and also failing to develop a true consistent identity for the team, was what lead to a further spiral downward when an average coach like Riley comes in. Riley was dealing with a divided roster, a roster that wasn't built for the Big Ten, all awhile trying to implement his identity and trying to learn a completely foreign conference for himself. I was not excited at all about the Riley hire, but probably because of my Nebraska fanhood, I began to see how the theory on paper about hiring Riley looked promising. A guy was an average coach at a severely disadvantaged program, but had some winning seasons with those disadvantages, had years of coaching experience, maybe that would mean he could do a lot more with more. Riley also in theory you'd think would be a great CEO type coach. 

With that, since entering the Big Ten in 2011 Nebraska has not had a true sense of identity, it's just been floating out there not knowing which way to go, and when you don't have a understandable identity, you don't have a solid culture. This is what Frost truly inherited. He didn't inherit a 4-8 team from 2017. He inherited a program without an identity since 2011 that is still trying to navigate in their relatively new conference.

 

[BoNeyard]

So he wouldn't have won as many games as he was winning? I find that hard to believe, and his team's were getting better, and his defense was finally changed over to what was needed in the big 10.  Discounting Bos wins is just ridiculous fodder.  Purdue is 3 and 6.  Iowa? Lol those Iowa teams were good, it's almost like one of them didn't lose until the title game.  Get out of here with your conjecture with no basis of anything.  

Not to discredit Bo's wins, but for being at Nebraska for 7 years, he didn't have many top wins vs true top competition. Yes, in today's Nebraska, I think any of us would take those wins these days, but I think Bo's ceiling was reached. 

 

[Savage Husker]

I’d take Bo back as a DC any day, with the caveat that he doesn’t get a chance to bring on “yes men” as position coaches - like he did here. Bo would be a better fit as a DC than HC. He’s too much of a perfectionist and micromanager. As a DC, he can play bad cop while the position coaches play the good cop, when needed. 
 

I’ll also come back to Perlman as the main culprit who lead us to the current state of the program. He used TO until TO was no longer useful to him and hired Eichorst to do his dirty work before riding off in the sunset. One could argue its not just deserved, but also necessary to go through this mess before things get better.

I will expect winning seasons, but I’ll give it 3 more meh seasons before there’s real talk about winning the west.

 

[broganreynik]

 

 

[Wistrom Disciple]

You're entitled to your opinion, but could you give me any other examples over the last 25 years of a coach finally elevating to winning conference championships after seven years at a program? 

It took Osborne nine years to win an outright conference title and he inherited a team coming off back to back National Championships. Remember that was in the cakewalk of the Big 8 of the 1970s and it still took nine years to win outright. < I'm not suggesting Bo was equivalent to TO, just providing context that it is possible to elevate the program.

Let's face it, you cannot win the conference title game if you're not playing in it. Bo took us to three in seven seasons (spanning two different conferences). The team was arguably the frontrunner to win the division in either '14 and/or '15 had we not canned him. I'm not suggesting he had the formula to make us division winners every year but he had things down to the point where we were competing for it every year at the very least. Unfortunately, we haven't been truly close since then. 

 

[Landlord]

It took Osborne nine years to win an outright conference title and he inherited a team coming off back to back National Championships. Remember that was in the cakewalk of the Big 8 of the 1970s and it still took nine years to win outright. < I'm not suggesting Bo was equivalent to TO, just providing context that it is possible to elevate the program.

Let's face it, you cannot win the conference title game if you're not playing in it. Bo took us to three in seven seasons (spanning two different conferences). The team was arguably the frontrunner to win the division in either '14 and/or '15 had we not canned him. I'm not suggesting he had the formula to make us division winners every year but he had things down to the point where we were competing for it every year at the very least. Unfortunately, we haven't been truly close since then. 

Okay, so you can't give me any examples of a coach who finally put it all together and elevated to championship play after year 7 at a school in the last 25 years?

 

[Wistrom Disciple]

Okay, so you can't give me any examples of a coach who finally put it all together and elevated to championship play after year 7 at a school in the last 25 years?

Bill Snyder took until year 15 until he won his conference outright, Alvarez took until year 10 to win his and Fulmer won his only two in '96 & '97 during his 6th & 7th years. 

Bo and his teams made the title game in three of the seven years while switching conferences in the middle of his tenure. To me that is "championship play" but that term is ambiguous. 

 

[desertshox]

Nick saban

he never spent 7 years at a coaching  stop prior to bama.

 

[Undone]

Let's face it, you cannot win the conference title game if you're not playing in it. Bo took us to three in seven seasons (spanning two different conferences). The team was arguably the frontrunner to win the division in either '14 and/or '15 had we not canned him. I'm not suggesting he had the formula to make us division winners every year but he had things down to the point where we were competing for it every year at the very least. Unfortunately, we haven't been truly close since then. 

I can never tell if posts like these are from people who are actually die hard Bo supporters or if it's just lamenting the fact that we're currently so far from playing even just "good" football right now (referring to the 9 win threshold thing).

Bo came to a place where he just couldn't beat Wisconsin. Objectively, demonstrably, he couldn't do it. And that final blowout where Melvin Gordon stomped us into the snow in Madison was it for me. 

I don't know if Frost will ever even be as good as Bo. It's possible that he won't and it's possible that we'll fire him after year 7 of his contract. But I'm glad we went down a course of trying something different because those Wisconsin blowouts were pitiful.

 

[desertshox]

Mike gundy

Mangino

Frank beamer

gundy year 6

mangino year 5

beamer is the only one that qualifies. he did it in year 8.

 

[desertshox]

The whole statement is so specific that it isnt a genuine arguement. Getting coaches in the area, as in 6 years, 5 years, 8 years, 7 years at different schools proves the point.

There are instances where it has happened,  the only thing that qualifies them is they improved at least every two years. Not necessarily year to year, but every couple of years.

the specific parameters are partly why he asked the question. it makes it harder to attack his stance. he purposely said 25 yrs to eliminate osborne. and with the evolution of college football over the past 10-15 years with more conferences going to conference championship games, your choices get even smaller.

 

[Undone]

Bo got fired for more then record.

You better be insanely good at your job if you are going to be toxic to other departments, stakeholders, and your boss. He was not good enough to act like he did.

I personally didn't care about that stuff very much. Only to the extent that it affected the play of the team. And given that we had recruiting classes that averaged between roughly #22-#30 each season, it didn't seem to affect our final record all that much.

I came to a point where it didn't seem reasonable to believe that Bo could elevate above Wisconsin. And without the ability to do that, what was the point?

 

[Landlord]

Bill Snyder took until year 15 until he won his conference outright, Alvarez took until year 10 to win his and Fulmer won his only two in '96 & '97 during his 6th & 7th years. 

Snyder is a good example. Would you be willing to wait 15 years after a coach is hired to win a conference championship? Do you think it's unreasonable of people to think that's too long?

I don't know enough about Tennesee but at least in thee examples of K State and Wiscy those schools were fine to keep non-championship level coaches around for 10+ years because they had no history and no expectations. That just will not ever happen here, or at any other blue blood. 

Nick saban

Never won any at MSU, won in year 2 at LSU, won in year 3 at Bama.

Mike gundy

Mangino

Frank beamer

Gundy won his single conference championship in 2011. One championship in 15 years. We cool with that level of success? 

Mangino never won a championship. 

Good call on Beamer.

There are instances where it has happened,  the only thing that qualifies them is they improved at least every two years. Not necessarily year to year, but every couple of years.

Bo didn't improve from 2012 onwards.

the specific parameters are partly why he asked the question. it makes it harder to attack his stance. he purposely said 25 yrs to eliminate osborne. and with the evolution of college football over the past 10-15 years with more conferences going to conference championship games, your choices get even smaller.

I purposefully said 25 years because I needed some number to use that wasn't too restricted to right now but also was still roughly 'modern'. 25 was probably too generous, tbh.

The point is that in the landscape of what college football is NOW, if a coach doesn't get to where they need to with seven years to do it, odds are overwhelming that they never will.

At some point you have to trust the data and the odds and realize what is right in front of you. Bo gave no indication of the team moving in a more elite direction, he gave no indication of having an answer for Wisconsin, and he gave no indication of being able to or getting better at recruiting at a high enough level. We consistently trended down from 2010 onwards. 2014 seemed like something was maybe on the verge of clicking, but then we didn't come to play against MSU, got boatraced and had the all time single game rushing record set against us vs Wisconsin, and then lost to Minnesota.  

Rinse, wash, repeat.

 

[desertshox]

the odds are overwhelming in large part to the instant gratification of today's society. just looking at the tenures of the head coaches in college football, most seem to be 5 years or less. they either move "up" to a better school or get fired.

 

[Wistrom Disciple]

Would you be willing to wait 15 years after a coach is hired to win a conference championship? Do you think it's unreasonable of people to think that's too long?

I thought we were primed for a run in '15 &'16 with Armstong/Westy/Collins/Valentine as Juniors then Seniors. It's all speculative now but I believe that we had a great chance to jump up.

I understand your point that nowadays programs/fans/boosters are less patient to wait for development. Given the money involved, I get the impatience to an extent. I just hope the fans/media can give Frost and his staff enough time to get the program on the right track and get back to competing again with limited embarrassment.